So what's the Catholic position on what Roeder did?

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To give an example of the damage you are doing to the prolife movement, read this passage:
Let George Tiller’s murder be the last straw. It is time for America’s pro-choice majority to stop standing idly by as extreme so-called pro-life advocates murder obstetrician-gynecologists (OB/GYNs) who are providing women with the legal right to terminate pregnancies. I am careful to note I am referring here to EXTREMIST pro-life advocates, people who refer to abortion as “baby-killing” and other inflammatory rhetoric.
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usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2009/06/01/tiller-murder-is-terrorism-and-all-pro-life-extremists-are-to-blame.html

She went on to compare Operation Rescue to the Taliban, call for a ban on inflammatory rhetoric like calling abortion baby-killing, and argue that society should hold pro-lifers responsible for murders like Tiller’s.

And you are helping her. Way to go.
 
Godfollower said:
Where did you get that kind of logic? Let’s look at abortion with your reasoning:

“She didn’t have to kill her baby; there were other options available to her.”
“Apparently not since she wasn’t helped until she aborted. :rolleyes:”

You could at least have the decency to recognize that you’re advocating the death of a fellow human being and should not be joking around about it.
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You could at least have the decency to recognize that you’re advocating the death of a fellow human being and should not be [making light of] it
 
Godfollower said:
To give an example of the damage you are doing to the prolife movement, read this passage:

usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2009/06/01/tiller-murder-is-terrorism-and-all-pro-life-extremists-are-to-blame.html

.
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I’m not surprised you believe these lies…

abortion majority… at least 72% (some studies say 80%) of Americans are against abortion…

they lie, lie, lie… and people just keep believing… very sad…

the whole Roe v Wade thing was based on lies…

and if you think women have a “right” to abortion… and it totally appears that you do… I am done with you… don’t talk to baby murderers and those who promote it.
 
distracted said:
You could at least have the decency to recognize that you’re advocating the death of a fellow human being and should not be [making light of] it
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Was there a glitch in your post here? I’m not advocating anyone’s death. I’m arguing against the murder of any human being.

:confused:
 
distracted said:
I’m not surprised you believe these lies…

abortion majority… at least 72% (some studies say 80%) of Americans are against abortion…

they lie, lie, lie… and people just keep believing… very sad…

the whole Roe v Wade thing was based on lies…

and if you think women have a “right” to abortion… and it totally appears that you do… I am done with you… don’t talk to baby murderers and those who promote it.
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But I don’t believe her. The point I’m making is that you are helping her make her case by playing into the extremism. If she (or others like her) want to argue against the prolife movement, they get to point to people like you and say “See?! Those Catholics advocate murder!! Don’t listen to them!!”
 
distracted said:
except that part about Thou shalt not commit murder…
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No, I fully agree with the Church’s prohibition of murder. Which is why I’m pointing out that Roeder’s actions – walking up to an usher during a church service, placing a gun against his forehead, pulling the trigger and killing him, then threatening to shoot two other people for daring to object – was gravely immoral and a mortal sin.
distracted said:
the Catholic Church ex-communicates those who promote murder of the unborn…
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No, it doesn’t. Again you have misunderstood Catholic theology. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” CIC, Canon 1398. So, for example, if Tiller had been Catholic, he would have been excommunicated the first time he committed an abortion. So would each of the mothers he “treated,” as well as anyone who helped (nurses, techs, whoever paid, etc.).

Heretics also incur latae sententiae excommunications; but heresy (“the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith,” CIC Canon 751) is notoriously difficult to prove. Just by one example, the politician’s favorite copout (“I believe it’s wrong, but I wouldn’t impose my beliefs on others”) is not heresy because it doesn’t deny the truth; it just refuses to follow it.
 
distracted said:
The Church is in favor of capital punishment when there is no other way for society to keep a murderer from murdering again…
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Nonsense. The Church is NOT “in favor” of capital punishment. The Church recognizes it may be a morally acceptable choice in certain (very restrictive) circumstances. This is especially significant because as John Paul II noted in Evangelium Vitae, it’s almost inconceivable that society could not be protected without resorting to the death penalty.
 
Godfollower said:
Was there a glitch in your post here? I’m not advocating anyone’s death. I’m arguing against the murder of any human being.

:confused:
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you put Tiller’s life on the same level as an innocent unborn child…

that’s like saying Jeffrey Dahmer has just as much a right to live as… say your mother…
 
Godfollower said:
No, I fully agree with the Church’s prohibition of murder. Which is why I’m pointing out that Roeder’s actions – walking up to an usher during a church service, placing a gun against his forehead, pulling the trigger and killing him,
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if you think that Tiller’s life was just as valuable as an innocent unborn child’s … I am done “arguing” with you… That proves you and i are from different “planets”…
No, it doesn’t. Again you have misunderstood Catholic theology. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” .
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a person who publicly supports/promotes abortion can be and should be (and IS) excommunicated… officially or unofficially…

oficially excommunicated is another matter… the Church rarely officially - in writing -excommunicates someone…

but mortal sin of any kind automatically excommunicates those who don’t repent…(& go to confession) They are not to receive Communion… (hence the term excommunicated)
 
diggerdomer said:
Nonsense. The Church is NOT “in favor” of capital punishment. The Church recognizes it may be a morally acceptable choice in certain (very restrictive) circumstances. This is especially significant because as John Paul II noted in Evangelium Vitae, it’s almost inconceivable that society could not be protected without resorting to the death penalty.
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not hardly a condemnation, is it?

Tiller was a mass murderer… Where are the other mass murderers society doesn’t wnat around… Death Row… (we hope)…

Roeder committed an unauthorized act of capital punishment.
 
distracted said:
Roeder committed an unauthorized act of capital punishment.
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No, he committed murder (at least I think that’s what he’s charged with). Individuals do not commit capital punishment, governments do.
 
Godfollower said:
But I don’t believe her. The point I’m making is that you are helping her make her case by playing into the extremism. If she (or others like her) want to argue against the prolife movement, they get to point to people like you and say “See?! Those Catholics advocate murder!! Don’t listen to them!!”
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i couldn’t care less what people say…

i care about truth… God’s truth… In God’s eyes, Tiller was a mass murderer and Roeder saved innocent lives… his crime was unauthorized capital punishment…
 
distracted said:
your opinion…
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Yes…and society’s. Unless you know somewhere that America (or any country, really) states that individuals disconnected from the government have the authority to carry out capital punishment?
 
distracted said:
i couldn’t care less what people say…

i care about truth… God’s truth… In God’s eyes, Tiller was a mass murderer and Roeder saved innocent lives… his crime was unauthorized capital punishment…
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Roeder is as much of a murderer as Tiller. He killed. Intentionally, and with premeditation. Look up the word murder.

Do all the word spin you want, but murder is murder. He took the life of another human being, innorcent or not.

Sorry, distracted, but I hate to inform you that Jesus did not die and leave you as God. YOU are doing the rationalizing and it is people with attitudes like yours and other fringe groups that give your cause a bad name.

By your rationalizations, people who kill people who perform abortions can in turn be killed since those killings can prevent the MURDER of someone else.

Murder is murder. Regardless of whether someone is innocent or not. When the state kills someone on death row, they commit murder. Period. Roeder is just as much a murderer as Tiller is. YOU are not to determine who is any better than anyone else.

But I suppose you’ll just “ignore me” because you think I’m promoting abortion because I don’t believe like you do. Go ahead and excommunicate me too, it won’t count. YOU are not the church. YOU are not God. YOU do not determine the value of each person’s life. And thank God you don’t.🤷
 
distracted said:
in case anyone missed this…

Ted Bundy was convicted of murder…

then he was transferred somewhere by the prison… or in any case was being transported somewhere…

and he escaped in hand-cuffs…

he murdered 2 more women before they caught him…

What if thye had never caught him… How many could he have killed? all women woiuld still be living in terror… (and yet, obvoiusly, ONE murder is far too many…)

in any case, as stated before, the RCC is against capital punishment (which T Bundy eventually got) only if society cannot keep such monsters behind bars for life…

apparently we in the US cannot… therefore, cap punishment would seem to be justified in at least some cases…

so why not tiller’s case? Was he - or was he NOT - a mass murderer? (in the eyes of God… don’t care what mere humans think)
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Yes he was, though not convicted by our rule of law. Therefore he was killed (murdered/terminated) by a vigilante:cool:
 
“unauthorized capital punishment” is the same thing as murder to the Catholic Church, since we see capital punishment as murder in itself.

What Roeder did was wrong, plain and simple. I do believe Tiller should have been punished for his crimes, but not by death.
 
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