So whats the deal with Jesuits?

[giuseppeTO]

“Soon” doesn’t change “right now”, sadly.

Agreed.

Hopefully they can be brought back to the fold at some point. I’m not holding my breath though, as it’s possible there may be some extremists on both sides who are holding things up.

Agreed.

As for the Jesuits, they have some odd people in there (like any order). But as someone mentioned before the new crop seems promising.

Agreed, although I would have used a stronger adjective than “odd”. But if it is true that a more orthodox wave of seminarians of all orders are coming, it will bode well for the Church.

 

[Melchior_1]

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed, although I would have used a stronger adjective than “odd”. But if it is true that a more orthodox wave of seminarians of all orders are coming, it will bode well for the Church.

1. Awesome.
2. Also awesome.
3. I’m trying to be charitable, so I said “odd”. I think overall there’s a large counter-cultural shift that is happening after the whole 60’s - 80’s era. I think (and pray) that overall the vocations we get (and the formation of the laity) will be decidedly more orthodox.

As an FYI; I think I was the one who brought up the SSPX this time, and I’m not one of them. So you can blame me for this one.

 

[WatchingMedia]

And additionally, i think it is wrong to judge a worldwide community by bad experiences with two, three or even four local communities/colleges. I have read so many bad things about really outrageous happenings within the church in the USA that would be (nearly) unthinkable here, so many things that are mentioned here would tel us more about the state of Christianity in a country than about an order.
And I could remeber some religious of different orders that were teaching open heresy, but I do know that they do not stand for all of them.

I agree, but only to a point. The Jesuits have a responsbility to get their Priests in line with teachings of the Church and have not done so. They need to fire Jesuit Priests from teaching posts who do not teach in conformance with the “CCC 2nd Ed”.
I would hardly call Georgetown, Marquette, Boston, etc, local community/colleges.

Are all Jesuits bad ? - Of course not. But the US Jesuit leadership is not doing its job. And the boils are festering.

Marquette is my alma mater. I would not pay tuition for any Jesuit Universities until they clean-up their own Univerisities. As I would not pay tuition for any Catholic Schools operated by the abortion Nuns who signed onto the health care bill.
Catholic parents must do their homework.

 

[Ockham]

Never said they were, now did I? I was merely pointing what the official stance of Rome at this time as it pertains to the SSPX.

No you didn’t but it’s a fair comparison don’t you think?

Here’s an idea of what goes on at the Jesuit centre in Guelph:

“Each day, we celebrate the Eucharist outside in a different location on the land, the location reflecting the theme of the day. For example, we hold Mass for the day on resurrection in the midst of the gravel pit where the land is naturally regenerating and renewing itself. We have the Eucharist for the day on the Passion of the Earth in front of the large outdoor crucifix. On the last day, we often plant flowers or trees during the Eucharist to mark our commitment to ongoing spiritual ecological conversion”.
ignatiusguelph.ca/ecology/eco_retreat.html

“After the Liturgy of the Word and a homily from Fr. Bill Clarke, who emphasized how we have cursed ourselves and chosen death over life whenever we have separated ourselves from the land and lived without gratitude for all it gives to us, the tractors started up and the congregation was on the move. Using holy water and a cedar branch, the congregation blessed oats, potatoes, garlic, coyotes, trees, the future ecology centre of the Wellington Catholic District School Board, fields and streams. The congregation sang “Salvador mundi, Salva nos.””
catholicregister.org/ontario/1908-at-one-with-the-earth?fontstyle=f-larger

 

[Melchior_1]

No you didn’t but it’s a fair comparison don’t you think?

Here’s an idea of what goes on at the Jesuit centre in Guelph:

“Each day, we celebrate the Eucharist outside in a different location on the land, the location reflecting the theme of the day. For example, we hold Mass for the day on resurrection in the midst of the gravel pit where the land is naturally regenerating and renewing itself. We have the Eucharist for the day on the Passion of the Earth in front of the large outdoor crucifix. On the last day, we often plant flowers or trees during the Eucharist to mark our commitment to ongoing spiritual ecological conversion”.
ignatiusguelph.ca/ecology/eco_retreat.html

“After the Liturgy of the Word and a homily from Fr. Bill Clarke, who emphasized how we have cursed ourselves and chosen death over life whenever we have separated ourselves from the land and lived without gratitude for all it gives to us, the tractors started up and the congregation was on the move. Using holy water and a cedar branch, the congregation blessed oats, potatoes, garlic, coyotes, trees, the future ecology centre of the Wellington Catholic District School Board, fields and streams. The congregation sang “Salvador mundi, Salva nos.””
catholicregister.org/ontario/1908-at-one-with-the-earth?fontstyle=f-larger

Crazy stuff…yet in a way I’m not shocked. And not for the reason you may think. The University of Guelph has one of the leading agriculture programs in the country. In this sense, I can see why if people flew off the deep end they would go into stuff like this.

And yes, this is the deep end. And not the “go out into the deep” deep end, but in the “this stuff is crazy ugly” deep end.

The Pope can discipline individuals, but perhaps it isn’t until the leaders themselves screw up in an overt and disobedient way that a whole order will be punished. It’ll be interesting to see what will happen with the Legionaries in this regard.

 

[Aramis]

Lots of lay canon lawyers on this board but, sorry to say, the Church, the Pope, and the Curia consider no member of the SSPX clergy or laity to be excommunicated.

I’ve heard Cdl. Arinze refer to the whole of the SSPX as excommunicated. It was before the lifting of the bishop’s excommunications, however. HH Bl. JP II, as well.

It’s also clear that HH Benedict has not formally acknowledged their latae sentencae excommunications under canon law; why is a matter of discussion… it is most likely because with their suspensions, it would only impede those few who wish to come back to full ecclesial communion (since the excommunication could then be lifted only by the pope).

 

[Aramis]

What does SSPX (Society of Saint Pius X) founded by Marcel Lefebvre, have to do with an OP about Jesuits ? NOTHING.

Why do SSPX posters keep messing up other people’s OPs with SSPX stuff ?

Unless and until SSPX conforms to Rome (Pope), and teachings of Catholic Church as defined in the CCC 2nd Edition - they are NOT part of our Catholic Church.

It is my understanding that “talks” are going on with SSPX, as well as with some Protestant Faiths.

Simple: The SSPX are the only religious society that has been publicly disciplined recently as a society for disobedience.

The Jesuits probably should be, but are not being disciplined.

 

[SANxJONERO]

Mental instability, mostly.

I read a really elaborate website once blaming the Jesuits for everything from the Kennedy assassination and 9/11 to suppressing knowledge that the world is actually flat and denying John Cabot his rightful place as discoverer of the Americas over Jesuit pawn Christopher Columbus.

Historically, the Jesuits have at some times and places been a large and influential society, which naturally draws critics out of the woodwork. In latter times, at least in the country, they have a reputation for liturgical and theological liberalism. That’s really it.

I think John Cabot may have had more right to claim he was the discoverer of the Americas over Columbus, but I don’t think either of them were the true discoverers & the Jesuits aren’t to blame.

 

[Major_Minor]

Look at post #21

 

[phoenixrrt62]

Jesuit Universities are in trouble regarding teachings of the Church.
Jesuit High School in DC just had Sr. Carol Keehan (pro-abortion Nun) speak at High School graduation.
New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, wrote Father Joe Costantino, SJ, (SJ means JESUIT), the Pastor of St. Francis, to say he would not like to see any group participate in the GAY Pride March under the parish banner. They intend to do so anyway.
St. Francis Xavier is the same Jesuit parish that last month hosted the dissenting, pro-abortion, Catholic Kerry Kennedy. The parish bulletin, available online, list among its scheduled activities meetings for Gay Catholics, Lesbian Catholics and a Zen Meditiation.

The Jesuits are in big trouble, and need to clean their own house. The Founder must be turning over in his grave. Jesuits are a Catholic order of Priests, but I would no longer pay tuition to go to their Schools.

Hey…all that sounds pretty good to me, sounds they are pretty tolerant and accepting…
But then I’m not religious…
I’ve heard nothing but good about the Jesuits…wow.
Silly me…

 

[Major_Minor]

First, off, I have nothing to forgive the Jesuits for. They are currently, under the guise of Catholicism, teaching heresy and tolerating immorality on practically every college campus they administer. I am not sure you know what the SSPX is if you think it is about forgiving heresy or immorality.

I just “found” this thread again. (New here and haven’t taken the time to find a good way to follow all threads I post in yet. ) I’m the one who originally questioned the SSPX that started this whole avalanche. I had no idea it was such a sore point here and that this topic had been bludgeoned to death here before…

The reason I posted what I did was to mirror what this poster said in #21 (quoted above) to see what the reaction would be. Could they take their own form of medicine? Their own kind of blanket generalization?

The thing is: I’m not a Jesuit, liberal or homosexual which has been inferred since then.

The Jesuits -are in fact- still aligned with the church. This doesn’t mean there are no problems to take care of. At the moment the SSPX -are not- in alignment with the church…this doesn’t mean there aren’t some wonderful people among them or that they can’t come back once they acknowledge the difference between sanctified and sanctimonious.

 

[Major_Minor]

Simple: The SSPX are the only religious society that has been publicly disciplined recently as a society for disobedience.

The Jesuits probably should be, but are not being disciplined.

Is a unified stance against the magisterium on the same level as -some members- of an order going the wrong way?

 

[giuseppeTO]

1. Awesome.
2. Also awesome.
3. I’m trying to be charitable, so I said “odd”. I think overall there’s a large counter-cultural shift that is happening after the whole 60’s - 80’s era. I think (and pray) that overall the vocations we get (and the formation of the laity) will be decidedly more orthodox.

As an FYI; I think I was the one who brought up the SSPX this time, and I’m not one of them. So you can blame me for this one.

Triple awesome. You could not be more uncharitable than I even if you tried, my friend.

 

[CradleCath]

Jesuit Universities are in trouble regarding teachings of the Church.
Jesuit High School in DC just had Sr. Carol Keehan (pro-abortion Nun) speak at High School graduation.
New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, wrote Father Joe Costantino, SJ, (SJ means JESUIT), the Pastor of St. Francis, to say he would not like to see any group participate in the GAY Pride March under the parish banner. They intend to do so anyway.
St. Francis Xavier is the same Jesuit parish that last month hosted the dissenting, pro-abortion, Catholic Kerry Kennedy. The parish bulletin, available online, list among its scheduled activities meetings for Gay Catholics, Lesbian Catholics and a Zen Meditiation.

The Jesuits are in big trouble, and need to clean their own house. The Founder must be turning over in his grave. Jesuits are a Catholic order of Priests, but I would no longer pay tuition to go to their Schools.

From an ex-Jesuit priest being interviewed on 60 Minutes:

Bollard also told interviewers on “60 Minutes” that during his seven years as a Jesuit, at least 12 priests made unwelcome sexual advances and invited him to cruise gay bars. At first, he refrained from reporting the advances, he said,** out of fear that he would jeopardize his future with the order.** When Bollard did take his complaints to the Jesuit provincial in California, Father John Privett, they were brushed off, he said.** He said Privett gave him a coffee cup that bore the words “no whining” and asked him to sign a paper releasing the Jesuits from legal liability. [Pam Schaeffer, in the National Catholic Reporter, December 17, 1999] **

About Father Thomas Drennen S.J. who announced his homosexuality from the pulpit.
Father Euteneuer said, “There is something just plain wrong about abusing people’s trust in the priesthood in such a public way, and since you chose to ‘go public’ with this matter, a public response to your outrageous ‘outing’ is merited.” “First of all,” Father Euteneuer said, **“Holy Mass is not a forum for your self-expression. You chose the sacred liturgy and the pulpit reserved for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the launching pad for your personal testament to homosexuality … You’ve read the same documents I’ve read about the liturgy, and none of them say the liturgy is your personal stage.” **

He continued, "[Celibacy] is a form of Christian chastity to which you and I are called, and I trust that you are faithful to it.** … A heterosexual celibate renounces his natural desire for wife and children in order to embrace the Bride of Christ in a direct spousal relationship. A homosexual celibate renounces an unholy desire for members of the same sex: that is a renunciation of a disorder, not the embrace of a Bride. **
“When even a celibate priest chooses to go public about his homosexual identity as an expression of ‘diversity’ or ‘pride’, the faithful are rightfully confused and scandalized. Not only do you owe them an apology, you owe them a better example of priesthood. They deserve a priest who is clear about the Church’s doctrine about homosexual acts and who teaches it unambiguously. … If you do not clearly witness the Church’s teaching about your own vocation, how can you teach others to be faithful to theirs?”
thesop.org/story/press_releases/2007/11/08/fr-euteneuer-responds-to-jesuit-who-came-out.php

 

[voltape]

I just cannot believe anybody may be talking bad about the Jesuits. I have all my life been near them and they are excellent priests, magnificent preachers. Before the present archbishop of Lima, Peru, we had His Eminence Augusto Cardinal Vargas Alzamora, S.J.
Their school “Immaculate” is one of the best in Peru, and numberless important Peruvians are graduates. My older grandson is a graduate. I admire them.

 

[CradleCath]

Hey…all that sounds pretty good to me, sounds they are pretty tolerant and accepting…
But then I’m not religious…
I’ve heard nothing but good about the Jesuits…wow.
Silly me…

They are very tolerant of sin, it’s just us Traditional Catholics that they abhor…not very tolerant there at all.

BTW. Christ didn’t “tolerate” sin. He forgave it & told people to “Go & Sin NO MORE”.

 

[Indyann]

They are very tolerant of sin, it’s just us Traditional Catholics that they abhor…not very tolerant there at all.

BTW. Christ didn’t “tolerate” sin. He forgave it & told people to “Go & Sin NO MORE”.

That is a very generalized statement. Have you heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa speak?

 

[CradleCath]

I just cannot believe anybody may be talking bad about the Jesuits. I have all my life been near them and they are excellent priests, magnificent preachers. Before the present archbishop of Lima, Peru, we had His Eminence Augusto Cardinal Vargas Alzamora, S.J.
Their school “Immaculate” is one of the best in Peru, and numberless important Peruvians are graduates. My older grandson is a graduate. I admire them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Jesuits are still Catholic priests in your country. My husband graduated from a Jesuit high (prep) school in 1958. He received an excellent education & was far more ready for College than those who graduated from other high schools. The Jesuits were manly men then, & had the respect of every (well, almost every) student. Attending a Jesuit school back then was an honor, but they’ve (the Jesuits here) have strayed so far from Catholicism now, not only with their teaching…but with their behavior. I hope those Jesuits who are in Peru do not follow the example of their fellow “priests” who live here.