T
tweetymom
Guest
40 years ago no wonder.
So why do you think we have so many scandals in the Catholic Church?
- Status
C
Catholicnow
Guest
Maybe because they aren’t who they say they are
C
cruisin
Guest
I thought the topic of this thread, was in regards to the catholic church not protestant.
T
tweetymom
Guest
Oh never miss a chance to put them down.I thought the topic of this thread, was in regards to the catholic church not protestant.
A
Alethiaphile
Guest
The scandals are due to the sinful behavior of some of its members, particularly some priests and bishops, and to the inordinate attention paid in the past to the outward image of the Church. Pope Benedict explicitly admitted that in his letter. For many centuries there has been an idolatrous concern with maintaining the outward image of “Holy Mother Church”, not by living virtuously, but by covering up. The fruits of this policy are being seen now.
The positive thing is that this shows that God still loves the Church, and therefore will not allow her to wallow in sin. She is undergoing a painful purification. “Whom God loves, He chastises.”
The positive thing is that this shows that God still loves the Church, and therefore will not allow her to wallow in sin. She is undergoing a painful purification. “Whom God loves, He chastises.”
C
cruisin
Guest
Kind of reminds me of what Jesus said to the people about the Jewish leadership; " do as they say not as they do"
I will repeat what i said before… it doesn’t matter what church … when something like this raises it’s ugly head the church suffers and we loose our ability to evangelize.
I will repeat what i said before… it doesn’t matter what church … when something like this raises it’s ugly head the church suffers and we loose our ability to evangelize.
C
CMatt25
Guest
Who?Maybe because they aren’t who they say they are
C
CMatt25
Guest
Well it was but the defense had to make its case. So the topic was changed somewhat.I thought the topic of this thread, was in regards to the catholic church not protestant.
J
jen_fla
Guest
this is from 2004, but something everyone should read.
The issue of child sexual molestation is deserving of serious scholarship. Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests.
In a survey for the Wall Street Journal-NBC News, it was found that 64 percent of the public thought that Catholic priests frequently abused children.[xxxix] This is outrageously unfair, but it is not surprising given the media fixation on this issue. While it would be unfair to blame the media for the scandal in the Catholic Church, the constant drumbeat of negative reporting surely accounts for these remarkably skewed results.[xl]
report found here
The issue of child sexual molestation is deserving of serious scholarship. Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests.
In a survey for the Wall Street Journal-NBC News, it was found that 64 percent of the public thought that Catholic priests frequently abused children.[xxxix] This is outrageously unfair, but it is not surprising given the media fixation on this issue. While it would be unfair to blame the media for the scandal in the Catholic Church, the constant drumbeat of negative reporting surely accounts for these remarkably skewed results.[xl]
report found here
L
lelhajj
Guest
As some people have mentioned before in this forum, psychology and psyquiatry were not as good as it was 30-40 years ago. Other kind of therapies were used by both medical fields for the treatment of mental illnesses and also the outcome of those illnesses were different or were to be considerated as “cured”. Like the human race reasoning has evolved and the way our catholic church is addresssing such sexual abuse problems nowdays, which were very different the way it used to address them 30-40 years ago. I certainly believe that by facing the problem, dealing with the problem and finding ways not to fall again in such faults is a step forward from our beloved church and our beloved Pope. Knowing now that still might be some priest which such faults should make us advice our little children what is good and what is bad about “touching” and alert them that it does not matter who the person is, he/she must come forward and tell us what is happening. In that way, us, as parents also will help the church to keep a good record of our our priests. I am not implying that only some priests might have these kind of sexual inclinations but also about the general public. This is the world we are living in and we must face it. Another way to help our priests might be to welcome them into our homes more often, not letting them just to be isolated and giving him also the affection needed as every human being needs it. Instead of only see our priests as a person that has a spiritual function and a work to do, i wonder, what a priest does after finishing his masses and visits to the poor or sick, besides praying? wouldn’t they feel also very lonely and with so much mental burden when we confess our sins? I remember what a different image i had when in my house we started reciving our priests or nuns, what a wonderful atmosphere we enjoy all of us, including the priests or nuns! they are human beings like us and they do struggle so much to keep themselves celibate, which is really an enormous promise to keep forever. I am not excusing them but i also know that a lot of them are really wonderful people who has nourished our souls so much, but, by the same token i ask myself: who nourish them? Let’s pray that these difficult times pass and that our church shines again with the help of our Lord. It is in our faith in God that we must entrust our problems, He is listening and we must cope with our own crosses as Jesus carried his own cross for our salvation, believing blindly in his Father’s will. Even if other people from other religions come and tell us that our church has lots of faults, we must still be a stronger defender of our faith. Pray not only for the good ones but also for the fallen ones that one day God has mercy on each one of us, for all our faults commited during this time on earth.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
95% of the American Catholic priests are normal. And yes, the bishops were guided to believe the deviants could be healed. Yesterday I saw and read a link of Protestant abusers within various denominational ministries. Don’t care to even bother sharing the link.
Again, you have to look at the excessive abuse happening in public schools and the tolerance secular society has for sexual abuse and exploitation of women and children.
The media hates the Church and Christianity in general.
When it comes to evil, you never win. We have to learn more to endure all for the sake of Christ and pray and do penance for our priests. We have not prayed for them enough.
The other issue is that of celibacy. People think because priests are celibate they are inclined towards sexual abuse.
Again, you have to look at the excessive abuse happening in public schools and the tolerance secular society has for sexual abuse and exploitation of women and children.
The media hates the Church and Christianity in general.
When it comes to evil, you never win. We have to learn more to endure all for the sake of Christ and pray and do penance for our priests. We have not prayed for them enough.
The other issue is that of celibacy. People think because priests are celibate they are inclined towards sexual abuse.
W
wmscott
Guest
Actually the number should be 98.3 – 99.8 percent of American Catholic Priests are not the offenders, where as for non-Catholic ministers the number is more like 97 – 98 percent that are not offenders.
You have made two statements here that are important:
- “The media hates the Church and Christianity in general”. – Amen, Amen.
- “We have to learn more to endure all for the sake of Christ and pray and do penance for our priests. We have not prayed for them enough”. Again – AMEN, AMEN
J
Jon_Hus
Guest
As long as the CC (ie:the true church as is claimed) is looking for rationalizations and blame shifting, the problem will continue.
The real question is: What would Jesus do? Confess or cover-up? The upper leadership, if they want to move past this has to …lead. Non-christians are not supid and protestants are not opportunists. It is amusing to read here “so and so does this” or “gets away with…”, or “hollywood/TV is the blame”.
Clearly the situation is out of control. A quick reading of Old Testament Israel reveals that when God’s people are caught in sin, the Lord punishes. Punishment many times came from the outside, from worse sinners than the Israelites. The real question here is Who are God’s people today and Does Almighty God need man’s help to keep His Church pure?
L
lemonbeam
Guest
Look at this article about Rabbis: Sexual Abuse by Rabbis - Where is the Public Outcry?
**Last year, 40 minors in this small Jewish community said they were abused. Last year, there were 10 such allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. Catholics are fed up with the duplicity. It’s not just Roman Polanski who can rape and run with impunity these days. The politics of child rape is sickening.
**
opposingviews.com/i/sexual-abuse-by-rabbis-where-is-the-public-outcry
In one borough of a city, Brooklyn, in the year of 2008, 40 minors said they where abused in the Jewish community. In the same year there where 10 allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. And the fact that the number of allegations is known shows you how there are better child protection systems in place now. Any person getting abused by a person in a position of trust is horrible, but put this in perspective.
And yet the media and the Anti-Catholics make it seem like child abuse is a Catholic problem, when it goes on in other denominations and other religions far more than it does in the Catholic faith.
**Last year, 40 minors in this small Jewish community said they were abused. Last year, there were 10 such allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. Catholics are fed up with the duplicity. It’s not just Roman Polanski who can rape and run with impunity these days. The politics of child rape is sickening.
**
opposingviews.com/i/sexual-abuse-by-rabbis-where-is-the-public-outcry
In one borough of a city, Brooklyn, in the year of 2008, 40 minors said they where abused in the Jewish community. In the same year there where 10 allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. And the fact that the number of allegations is known shows you how there are better child protection systems in place now. Any person getting abused by a person in a position of trust is horrible, but put this in perspective.
And yet the media and the Anti-Catholics make it seem like child abuse is a Catholic problem, when it goes on in other denominations and other religions far more than it does in the Catholic faith.
W
wmscott
Guest
Since there are those who want to make this a Catholic problem, I want to challenge anyone to show me in the Bible or the CCC or any other Catholic documents where this type of behavior is approved of, supported by the CC, and general accepted by the faithful. Our Catholic Priests are Good and Holy men that deserve being defended vigorously along with our respect and support. A pedophile who is a priest was a **pedophile/predator **before he was a priest and will always be a **pedophile/predator **regardless of what profession or vocation he chooses. The priesthood is just one of them.
Pedophiles/predators are notorious for seeking out positions that put them in close proximity of potential victims e.g. within the family, or as teachers, scout leaders, day care workers, youth pastors, music pastor, or pastor of this or pastor of that, or whatever job that affords them access to kids. It is not unique to Catholic Priests. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous, slanderous, and outright false. Of the personal and actual cases, that I am intimately knowledgeable about, there is the high school band director that molested his own sons. A local youth pastor molested his and other kids. Several scout leaders in my area have molested boys. I can go on and on, but not one of these individuals was a Catholic Priests and I personally do not know of any Catholic Priest who has molested a child. Point is, you can point the finger at the CC and its Priests, but that is like pointing to a drop in the ocean. As for the drop in the ocean analogy, the point is not to minimize the despicable acts of the pedophile priests. It is to illustrate that the numbers of pedophile priests compared to the rest of society’s vocations is minuscule in comparison. With that said… ***just one victim is too many!!! ***It is an evil perpetrated on the victim, and is unacceptable. I think that it is deplorable and needs to be eradicated, but it has to be looked at in full spectrum.
As another poster stated, it is Satan working against the Body of Christ, His Church. I say that is true. We all are sinners, we all are imperfect, and our Priests and Bishops are humans that make mistakes and are sinners as we are. Satan uses our weakness and sinful nature to work on us. The assertion that the CC is evil plays right into all of the outside bigotry and false accusations. Did the CC hide it because of Catholic doctrine that supported pedophilia? NO. Did the CC fail to properly deal with it because Catholic doctrine made it acceptable Catholic practice or theology? NO. Did the CC fail to properly deal with it because lack of experience, ability, or willing cover up by some who were in denial or wanted to protect the CC, albeit through misguided intentions, YES. The point is nobody is perfect, it was a mistake, but it was not “EVIL”. The “EVIL” was the pedophile/predator priest. Yes, the CC mishandled the initial out cry of abuse, either due to lack of experience, ability, or willing cover up, but it is now being dealt with, as it should be. Many of the assertions I see today is all that stuff that happened in the early stages of this issue. All those who are banging the drum using these examples are holding on to the past and not seeing what the CC is doing now to correct it. It is about anti-Catholic bigotry and attacking the Catholic Church.
Pedophile/predator priest are to be treated as the criminals that they are, but in now way should their crime be any kind of a reflection on the good and holy priests that faithfully serve God, His Church, and the Catholic people. The most important thing is that the victims are in need of our prayers for healing and support. We must also pray for the CC to take the right path in dealing with this issue. Does anyone here really think that the good and holy Bishops and Priests that mishandled it in the beginning are evil people, which delighted in their errors? No, by their error an evil progressed for a time and then was put into check. However, these Bishops and Priests are not evil people. Therefore, to blast the CC and Catholic Priests is the easy way out instead of acknowledging and realizing that this it is an issue that transcends all beliefs and vocations. So do not make it out as a Catholic problem, it is the society as a whole problem. This is a far greater issue and it has infiltrated into all institutions and vocations, and is far more prominent in many other areas of society than in the CC.
The Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the body of Christ. It is not the body of Christ or its doctrines that perpetrated this evil on the victims; it was a predator that used the cover of the priesthood to get to their victims. That is the evil not the Catholic Church or the Priesthood. Those that mishandled it were in error and did so grievously. Again, this has been corrected, and those that mishandle it today are held accountable.
The CC is a hospital for sinners not a home for Saints. The CC and its doctrines are pure, but the “Humans” that make it up are imperfect, and always will be.
Pedophiles/predators are notorious for seeking out positions that put them in close proximity of potential victims e.g. within the family, or as teachers, scout leaders, day care workers, youth pastors, music pastor, or pastor of this or pastor of that, or whatever job that affords them access to kids. It is not unique to Catholic Priests. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous, slanderous, and outright false. Of the personal and actual cases, that I am intimately knowledgeable about, there is the high school band director that molested his own sons. A local youth pastor molested his and other kids. Several scout leaders in my area have molested boys. I can go on and on, but not one of these individuals was a Catholic Priests and I personally do not know of any Catholic Priest who has molested a child. Point is, you can point the finger at the CC and its Priests, but that is like pointing to a drop in the ocean. As for the drop in the ocean analogy, the point is not to minimize the despicable acts of the pedophile priests. It is to illustrate that the numbers of pedophile priests compared to the rest of society’s vocations is minuscule in comparison. With that said… ***just one victim is too many!!! ***It is an evil perpetrated on the victim, and is unacceptable. I think that it is deplorable and needs to be eradicated, but it has to be looked at in full spectrum.
As another poster stated, it is Satan working against the Body of Christ, His Church. I say that is true. We all are sinners, we all are imperfect, and our Priests and Bishops are humans that make mistakes and are sinners as we are. Satan uses our weakness and sinful nature to work on us. The assertion that the CC is evil plays right into all of the outside bigotry and false accusations. Did the CC hide it because of Catholic doctrine that supported pedophilia? NO. Did the CC fail to properly deal with it because Catholic doctrine made it acceptable Catholic practice or theology? NO. Did the CC fail to properly deal with it because lack of experience, ability, or willing cover up by some who were in denial or wanted to protect the CC, albeit through misguided intentions, YES. The point is nobody is perfect, it was a mistake, but it was not “EVIL”. The “EVIL” was the pedophile/predator priest. Yes, the CC mishandled the initial out cry of abuse, either due to lack of experience, ability, or willing cover up, but it is now being dealt with, as it should be. Many of the assertions I see today is all that stuff that happened in the early stages of this issue. All those who are banging the drum using these examples are holding on to the past and not seeing what the CC is doing now to correct it. It is about anti-Catholic bigotry and attacking the Catholic Church.
Pedophile/predator priest are to be treated as the criminals that they are, but in now way should their crime be any kind of a reflection on the good and holy priests that faithfully serve God, His Church, and the Catholic people. The most important thing is that the victims are in need of our prayers for healing and support. We must also pray for the CC to take the right path in dealing with this issue. Does anyone here really think that the good and holy Bishops and Priests that mishandled it in the beginning are evil people, which delighted in their errors? No, by their error an evil progressed for a time and then was put into check. However, these Bishops and Priests are not evil people. Therefore, to blast the CC and Catholic Priests is the easy way out instead of acknowledging and realizing that this it is an issue that transcends all beliefs and vocations. So do not make it out as a Catholic problem, it is the society as a whole problem. This is a far greater issue and it has infiltrated into all institutions and vocations, and is far more prominent in many other areas of society than in the CC.
The Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the body of Christ. It is not the body of Christ or its doctrines that perpetrated this evil on the victims; it was a predator that used the cover of the priesthood to get to their victims. That is the evil not the Catholic Church or the Priesthood. Those that mishandled it were in error and did so grievously. Again, this has been corrected, and those that mishandle it today are held accountable.
The CC is a hospital for sinners not a home for Saints. The CC and its doctrines are pure, but the “Humans” that make it up are imperfect, and always will be.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Never in the history of the Catholic Church has it endorsed pedophilia or homosexual behavior.
The source is evil.
Wouldn’t the devil’s first target be the Catholic priesthood who gives us the Body and Blood of Jesus???
The other point is just that…the priest is consecrated in truth and love…Psalm 101 says ‘dare not touch my anointed ones’…that is the crux of the issue. A priest is a priest forever. He can be laicized, but he never looses the power to change ordinary bread and wine into the Eucharist. This is the real problem.
So the Church in essence is trying to protect what is sacred, what is a sacrament. Not the criminal priest. That is the essence of the problem.
When the Church was a temporal institution, it severely punished such clerics…it had its own dungeons with chains. Now with the encroachment of secular law into the church…the church must hand over its consecrated to the state.
Jesus said in His gospel that those who cause scandal should have a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the deepest part of the ocean…how many priests and lay did not even know this was happening?? It was a great shock to all of us, and tremendous shame and affliction.
The source is evil.
Wouldn’t the devil’s first target be the Catholic priesthood who gives us the Body and Blood of Jesus???
The other point is just that…the priest is consecrated in truth and love…Psalm 101 says ‘dare not touch my anointed ones’…that is the crux of the issue. A priest is a priest forever. He can be laicized, but he never looses the power to change ordinary bread and wine into the Eucharist. This is the real problem.
So the Church in essence is trying to protect what is sacred, what is a sacrament. Not the criminal priest. That is the essence of the problem.
When the Church was a temporal institution, it severely punished such clerics…it had its own dungeons with chains. Now with the encroachment of secular law into the church…the church must hand over its consecrated to the state.
Jesus said in His gospel that those who cause scandal should have a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the deepest part of the ocean…how many priests and lay did not even know this was happening?? It was a great shock to all of us, and tremendous shame and affliction.
J
Jon_Hus
Guest
L
Loboto-Me
Guest
People keep saying that the abuse is worse because the Church claims they are the true Church (which is the truth). My problem is that the various protestant churches claim they are the true churches… does this mean that they can finally admit that they don’t have the truth?
T
tweetymom
Guest
My problem is abuse is abuse no matter who does it. The cover up is worse. Who will be the final judge will be Jesus.
C
cruisin
Guest
Unfortunatly this seems to be the bias, politcal correct typical behavior of our society.
No real answers unless we begin to demand accountablility and begin to shut off our TV and radios. the news media are driven by rating and the only way to change them is to change their ratings. some won’t care for sure but what else is there to try?
- Status