So why do you think we have so many scandals in the Catholic Church?

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T.E. You asked,(Why do catholics think homosexuality is right? ) I said , that is a lie Catholics do not believe it is right. Homosexuality is a mortal sin (deadly sin)and if it is unrepentant , as with any other unrepentant mortal sin you commit you will end up in the bad:eek:place:eek: :shrug:Carlan
Truth is partly wrong, and partly right. Catholics accept Homosexuality inside there church but they dont believe its right. However, he is right regarding priests not being able to marry.
 
Truth is partly wrong, and partly right. Catholics accept Homosexuality inside there church but they dont believe its right. However, he is right regarding priests not being able to marry.
Actually I only was addressing the sin of homosexuality. I did not address the fact that Priests take a vow of celibacy.:)Carlan
 
what about if they put altar girls on our church, wouldn’t that lessen the problem? and i certainly believe that a priest that has a history of pedophilia must be removed from the clergy. About father murphy’s case, the case was reported to our present Pope, but, i believe all the orders must come from the Pope at that time, and in that case, it was John Paul II. I was not there to make a statement, but, if Pope Benedict talked to John Paul II the way to procede must have come from the latter on, not necessarily from Pope Benedict. Now, we can not say that the problem has not been addressed (in general) because our church has enforced to speak out if there are cases of child abuse by the clergy lately. That it has mishandle those cases in the past, it might be, that is the reason why the Pope must change the way how he handles those cases and reinforce psychological tests and reasons why a person wants to become a priest.
I would like to make a comment here: our church is bleeding with those scandals, and i am not talking just about a buiding, but, about its believers. We are suffering due to such bad acts and please, people of other religions do not come here to the forums to make fun or laugh at our suffering. Respect our pain and respect our God and beliefs. There must be here, some of those people who are part of a different religion, who are just waiting for a person or congregation to be weak in order to grab and lead them to their own faith. We, catholics must stand on firm ground on our beliefs and in the teachings of our Lord, even if the waters are shaken, we must remember that God is first and above everything and everybody. Do not loose faith, but remain faithful to God. There might be small or big problems made by humans, but, we must keep strong and faithful. I wonder if we could all stand by our faith even if our lives are threatened, like in other countries where catholics are being persecuted and killed. Our problem is not that big, if we compare those poor persecuted catholics who are willing to give their lives for the sake and love of their faith. United we become strong, separated we will fail and we will be tempted by other people of different faith. Keep it strong! what humans do it is prone to failure a lot of times, but, not what God has taught.
 
Anode…

I greatly oppose any clergy abuse…and have spoken about it publicly.

The greater issue is that we live in a a most highly sexualized culture. When will our culture take responsibility? Double standards!

The public schools’ sexual abuse is 100 times that of the Catholic clergy. Excuse that one?
 
I don’t think sex abuse scandals are limited to the Catholic Church, but the Catholic scandals are more newsworthy. Check this out:

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116504,00.html

This in no way justifies the wrong-doing in the Catholic Church, but does show that sexual abuse happens in all churches.

Jean
Thank you for bringing this up, Jean. It does point to the hypocrisy and bias against the Catholic Church in the media. In my area, a story broke of a Protestant youth minister that had sexually assaulted many young teens (including one young girl apparently over 200 times) at summer Bible camp over many years and when it was discovered what he was doing the pedophile was moved across country to a church in California. The local newspapers had the story buried way in in the back of the papers.
 
USA Today, October 2007, had an expose of the public schools sexual abuse…but I can’t find out which actual date.

The front page article showed the states with the highest abuse with maps and graphs.

Within the past year or so, the main paper in Oregon came out with a front page article that those employed in the public school system here will not be finding protection like before…and that was about it.

The mayor of Portland, OR openly hit on a consenting teenager, lied, and got away with it.
 
USA Today, October 2007, had an expose of the public schools sexual abuse…but I can’t find out which actual date.

The front page article showed the states with the highest abuse with maps and graphs.

Within the past year or so, the main paper in Oregon came out with a front page article that those employed in the public school system here will not be finding protection like before…and that was about it.

The mayor of Portland, OR openly hit on a consenting teenager, lied, and got away with it.
All horribly terrible and completely sickening too. But sorry I miss your point with what this has to do with the scandals in the Catholic Church. Other than of course abuse is widespread. We all know that. But do the Oregon public school system and the Portland mayor declare themselves the one and only true Church with the Portland mayor an apostolic successor or the vicar of Christ? It makes a difference when you are teaching infallibly faith and morals and about the sanctity of life and protecting a child in the womb. But you do not know it is wrong to cover up child abuse.
 
All horribly terrible and completely sickening too. But sorry I miss your point with what this has to do with the scandals in the Catholic Church. Other than of course abuse is widespread. We all know that. But do the Oregon public school system and the Portland mayor declare themselves the one and only true Church with the Portland mayor an apostolic successor or the vicar of Christ? It makes a difference when you are teaching infallibly faith and morals and about the sanctity of life and protecting a child in the womb. But you do not know it is wrong to cover up child abuse.
Sexual sin is so pervasive in our society that it’s become acceptable (just check out some of the prime time TV shows or entertainment shows that are out.) Pornography is a $20 billion industry in our society. Morals and ethics can become relative in a society, possibly thes pedophile priests fell in to this sin because they were numb from a society where adultery, fornication, the gay lifestyle are totally acceptable. It doesn’t make their sins right, but they are weak men like the rest of us. Next time someone watches reruns of “Friends” or “Seinfeld” witch tromps all over at leat 7 of the 10 Commandments nightly, Do we just blow it off as a funny show?

Any cover-up was wrong, and it’s an action we can definitely judge as wrong and inescuseable. But with any sin, can we judge the sinner’s heart? Were the Cardinals and bishops deliberately trying to sin? Or were they scared and frightened and overwhelmed and not quite sure how to react at the time? literally, only God knows what was in there heart at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20. The important thing (as with any sin) is to after the fact recognize the sin, be remorseful, seek forgiveness, repent and go and “sin no more.”

What are we doing as laity, that this never happens again, and the Church only comes out stronger?
 
Thank you for bringing this up, Jean. It does point to the hypocrisy and bias against the Catholic Church in the media. In my area, a story broke of a Protestant youth minister that had sexually assaulted many young teens (including one young girl apparently over 200 times) at summer Bible camp over many years and when it was discovered what he was doing the pedophile was moved across country to a church in California. The local newspapers had the story buried way in in the back of the papers.
While I agree with you if anything can be brought up on the CC negative you can bet it will be for all to hear.

But while I also am upset to hear of any Priest fall from grace we must remember what our dear Lord told us that the devil is the Master of disguise. He will do whatever he can to take down the RCC.

But I also remember what Jesus also said. Stay with the RCC. The RCC is not those Priests it is the living Christ.

What they did will never stop me from getting the Eucharist and giving up my faith. I will pray for them that God will forgive them for what they did. But I would also never want to be in their shoes. I know what they did is not acceptable to God, or I or the RCC.

But God warned us that many will enter the Church in order to try to destroy it. Many have tried and many have failed. And will contunue to fail. For Jesus promised us that he will always protect the RCC.

The Gates of hell////////////////

The RCC will take this hit, and we will not fail. It is not the sins of humans it is the Living Christ that I concern myself with.

I will continue to go to the RCC until the day I die, and confess my sins, receive the Eucharist as Christ instructed me to do.

I am not put here to judge but be judged. My head in not in the sand and I like the Pope am very ashamed of what those Priests have done. There is no excuse nor will I make one up, Wrong is wrong and sin and sin. May God have mercy one their souls.

I like the Church will take the hit, I have! by my protestants brothers and sisters as with any other scandel in the Church. But I will stand by my Pope and my God in the Church.

But what people do not seem to understand is the abuse in the Church never changed the word of God. It never changed the sacraments etc. There is still no Church on earth that has the Sacraments and never will be. The Church is still the same. Just some men have fallen from grace.

What is different today then when Jesus was here. Did not Judas betray Jesus. Did not the Priests also betray Jesus? What does that have to do with the fullness of the Truth that is found in the RCC? Are the teachings and sacraments and promises made by Jesus not still the same today as yesterday. Jesus promised us many will betray the Church but he never will. Thats all I need to know.

I never put my faith in a Priest my faith has always been in the RCC the living Christ. And I have never been let down yet!
 
While I agree with you if anything can be brought up on the CC negative you can bet it will be for all to hear.

But while I also am upset to hear of any Priest fall from grace we must remember what our dear Lord told us that the devil is the Master of disguise. He will do whatever he can to take down the RCC.

But I also remember what Jesus also said. Stay with the RCC. The RCC is not those Priests it is the living Christ.

What they did will never stop me from getting the Eucharist and giving up my faith. I will pray for them that God will forgive them for what they did. But I would also never want to be in their shoes. I know what they did is not acceptable to God, or I or the RCC.

But God warned us that many will enter the Church in order to try to destroy it. Many have tried and many have failed. And will contunue to fail. For Jesus promised us that he will always protect the RCC.

The Gates of hell////////////////

The RCC will take this hit, and we will not fail. It is not the sins of humans it is the Living Christ that I concern myself with.

I will continue to go to the RCC until the day I die, and confess my sins, receive the Eucharist as Christ instructed me to do.

I am not put here to judge but be judged. My head in not in the sand and I like the Pope am very ashamed of what those Priests have done. There is no excuse nor will I make one up, Wrong is wrong and sin and sin. May God have mercy one their souls.

I like the Church will take the hit, I have! by my protestants brothers and sisters as with any other scandel in the Church. But I will stand by my Pope and my God in the Church.

But what people do not seem to understand is the abuse in the Church never changed the word of God. It never changed the sacraments etc. There is still no Church on earth that has the Sacraments and never will be. The Church is still the same. Just some men have fallen from grace.

What is different today then when Jesus was here. Did not Judas betray Jesus. Did not the Priests also betray Jesus? What does that have to do with the fullness of the Truth that is found in the RCC? Are the teachings and sacraments and promises made by Jesus not still the same today as yesterday. Jesus promised us many will betray the Church but he never will. Thats all I need to know.

I never put my faith in a Priest my faith has always been in the RCC the living Christ. And I have never been let down yet!
Amen! The sins of man do nothing to negate the deposit of faith,the teaching doctrine, and fullness of Truth of Jesus Christ passed down to us from the apostles to the current bishops of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is perfect, because it is instituted by Christ Himself. The men that run His church are imperfect and sinful, right back to the first pope chosen by Christ, Peter. Think about what a weak man Christ put in to place as His first leader. He did this for a reason, to show us that even though we are weak and sin, like Peter we must get back up and mimic Peter’s strong faith and carry on.
 
Nobody is excusing anyone of sexual sins…it has caused such suffering…

Many of us cried and felt violated ourselves hearing what happened in this rectory here in this state…the laity had it burned to the ground.

This is part of the evil that has entered into the Catholic Church. Christ spoke of those who caused scandal…that they should be dropped into the deepest part of the ocean with a millstone around their neck…

We did not pray and do penance as laity should, as we were exhorted many years ago…here came the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s of alot of affluence and good living, the easy way… in this we all had a part neglecting our spiritual duties to our priests.

I recall reading a local priest countering back as well how hard it can be for priests to keep pure thoughts with all the profane pornography and language here…and disrespect for the sacred. We live in a highly sexualized culture that is so pervasive and filthy and it is getting worse.

Only the Catholic Church is held liable. We are prepared some day to loose our buildings…and who knows what will happen after that…in the meantime, governments are and have been releasing thousands of sex pedophiles and criminals into society because of the lack of funds.

What was said here…95 to 98% of the Catholic clergy are not guilty, many didn’t even know of the abusers…Pope Benedict was not actively in charge but elsewhere regarding the claims directed at him…

If anybody is guilty of sex crimes, it is only the Catholic Church.
 
So why do you think we have so many scandals in the Catholic Church?
To show that He is in control and that no man can do it all without Christ.
 
To show that He is in control and that no man can do it all without Christ.
In part, i do agree with you Geographer. But, this is not God’s decision to push priest to commit pedophile, that is the devil’s work, but, unless we, sinners realize the importance of God and do not twist His commandments then, things might possibly be right. I also agree with some people that wrote some comments above, about that our society has become so lack of moral principles and that due to the desensitization of our main moral values, everything seems in the view of us, human, more logical, like for example: abortion (we know it is a killing) but some of us we doubt if it is ok or not, not because we do not know that is a killing but, maybe we have a daughter to worry about, or we believe that it is better to have an abortion instead of leaving the children in an orphanate, instead of getting rid of the child, etc, or because the costs of our medical insurances are going to go up, etc. the very fact of having an abortion is an action of killing. there is no way around.
Let’s take another example: wars (what is a war? war means killing hundreds of people) isn’t that a killing? even if we claim that it is to free some people, or because we THOUGHT that they have nuclear weapons, etc. aren’t we, after all, committing a killing or being in agreement to commit those crimes? i tell you, it is a crime and we are also guilty of such happenings. what about contraceptives? according to church, it is not allow to use them, but, what do we do with that rule? we use them, because it is more convenient, etc. In the first place, crimes committed by pedophiles are not acceptable, in nobody’s eyes, it does not matter who commit them, priest, public, etc. we can not make excuses also that priests are more prone or that it is ok to do such acts. No, it is a crime, in the eyes of the people and even more in the eyes of God. God is the first one that is crying for all the corruption that we carry in our souls, for all the twists and excuses we make for our own convenience, but, the truth, there is only one truth, like the examples above. Nobody can hide or excuse what is the real truth. We like to lie to ourselves, to make excuses of the wrong behaviors, but we are as guilty as those who commited such crimes like wars, etc. That is the reason why we must be strong in keeping our commandments firm and to keep a society well grounded in moral values, not to distort realities or facts, because, if we think that we are the only one affected we are wrong, don’t we have families? don’t we have children, grandchildren, nephews, etc, beloved people we should care about their personal moral values they are growing with? if this is happening now, that we have allowed so much “liberty” i wonder how the world is going to be when those little children grow up? maybe something like Sodom and Gomorrah? or why there are always wars everywhere? because we have planted violence and said: violence is good, in the name of whatever reason you want to give. It is time to reencounter our moral values, the preachings of our Lord.
May God help us and guide us to become better children of God, not by saying, but by our own actions, without excuses.
 
In part, i do agree with you Geographer. But, this is not God’s decision to push priest to commit pedophile, that is the devil’s work, but, unless we, sinners realize the importance of God and do not twist His commandments then, things might possibly be right. I also agree with some people that wrote some comments above, about that our society has become so lack of moral principles and that due to the desensitization of our main moral values, everything seems in the view of us, human, more logical, like for example: abortion (we know it is a killing) but some of us we doubt if it is ok or not, not because we do not know that is a killing but, maybe we have a daughter to worry about, or we believe that it is better to have an abortion instead of leaving the children in an orphanate, instead of getting rid of the child, etc, or because the costs of our medical insurances are going to go up, etc. the very fact of having an abortion is an action of killing. there is no way around.
Let’s take another example: wars (what is a war? war means killing hundreds of people) isn’t that a killing? even if we claim that it is to free some people, or because we THOUGHT that they have nuclear weapons, etc. aren’t we, after all, committing a killing or being in agreement to commit those crimes? i tell you, it is a crime and we are also guilty of such happenings. what about contraceptives? according to church, it is not allow to use them, but, what do we do with that rule? we use them, because it is more convenient, etc. In the first place, crimes committed by pedophiles are not acceptable, in nobody’s eyes, it does not matter who commit them, priest, public, etc. we can not make excuses also that priests are more prone or that it is ok to do such acts. No, it is a crime, in the eyes of the people and even more in the eyes of God. God is the first one that is crying for all the corruption that we carry in our souls, for all the twists and excuses we make for our own convenience, but, the truth, there is only one truth, like the examples above. Nobody can hide or excuse what is the real truth. We like to lie to ourselves, to make excuses of the wrong behaviors, but we are as guilty as those who commited such crimes like wars, etc. That is the reason why we must be strong in keeping our commandments firm and to keep a society well grounded in moral values, not to distort realities or facts, because, if we think that we are the only one affected we are wrong, don’t we have families? don’t we have children, grandchildren, nephews, etc, beloved people we should care about their personal moral values they are growing with? if this is happening now, that we have allowed so much “liberty” i wonder how the world is going to be when those little children grow up? maybe something like Sodom and Gomorrah? or why there are always wars everywhere? because we have planted violence and said: violence is good, in the name of whatever reason you want to give. It is time to reencounter our moral values, the preachings of our Lord.
May God help us and guide us to become better children of God, not by saying, but by our own actions, without excuses.
Okayyyyyyy:rolleyes: I gave an overly simplified answer to an overly simplied and possibly the wrong question. and you isolate my short bleep. Sure, whatever. You’re funny.
 
Any normal person is dead set against child abuse…

I am reading new information today and there has been a study on sex abuse in America…and looking at when men were ordained, and what ordination times ended up bringing about the most abuse.

Most perpetrators were ordained shortly after Vatican II…the other aspect to it is that the great number of cases were homosexual in nature. We are becoming more and more aware of the Lavendar network in the Church.

Another article came out today saying the Monsignor in Wisconsin did NOT write letters ascribed to him.

A new article came out today saying that the abusers were deflected at the episcopal level – the level of the bishop – and not the papacy. I know in our diocese we were very much reacting to the number of homosexual men becoming priests. I went to a Mass and picked up on this ordained priest…not his sexual orientation – that was hidden, but what aberrations he was doing at Mass…a few years ago he was sent to prison for homosexual abuse against teenagers. We had several sent to prison and my diocese was the leading diocese in the country since 1982 to try to avoid abuse. I think we had 3 or 4.

But the Archdiocese of Seattle also stated that they did indeed try to extend their prevention program to other dioceses across the country but there were provencial, isolated ones who wanted to do things their way…and they in turn were those — I assume – that got the worst coverage. It all gets back to the bishop and his inner circle, and there are those dioceses who have cliques…and a cover-up culture…so you don’t trust people, you notice a general cover-up and closed mouth attitude with parishioners who don’t open up to newcomers, etc.

Cover up cultures have a trickle down effect. I remember moving to this diocese reading an article in the Catholic newspaper. The article was about a couple whose son had mental health problems they dealt with for many years with little support. They then lost him to suicide from reacting to medications. At that time, nobody in the parish extended condolences to them, not even the pastor…just people looked at them and said nothing…This is inhumane and against the Gospel and is the kind of stuff that can get my BP to rise…this indifference to the presence and suffering of your approximates…especially those gathered in the Holy Name of Christ.
 
Okayyyyyyy:rolleyes: I gave an overly simplified answer to an overly simplied and possibly the wrong question. and you isolate my short bleep. Sure, whatever. You’re funny.
you make me laugh Geographer, i really thank you for that.😃
 
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