Social Justice groups such as JustFaith, CCHD, IAF

[jewells17]

So called social justice is about getting revenge for the wrongs done going way back in history and trying to even the score and fix things through redistribution of the wealth of the current generation. And you know it requires an enormous amount of arrogance to sit in judgement of people and political leaders that are not even alive anymore…not even here to defend themselves. And Christ said " Let the one without sin cast the first stone"…and I have spent alot of time around Peace and Social Justice Committees and they are not without sin…who is? Based on my experience their true feelings about America would curl your hair…not to mention how they feel about the Pope or the Vatican. Alot of warm fuzzy bonding goes on and then…you get indoctrinated little by little…till you wake up one day and you feel ashamed about you country, your church , and a whole host of other things. Again…based on my experience…I would research these type of groups before joining and pay real close attention if you decide to go. It might be your cup of tea…but not mine. Been there, done that and glad to be gone.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

dixieagle
JustFaith does not have a curriculum specific to JustFaith alone. The program uses very classic Catholic materials that you can find in any CCD class, or Bible study, or seminary. It uses documents of the Catholic Church and many other materials that can be found in any church or Catholic school or seminary.
So, the quotes you have chosen on socialism may or may not be included in some of the reading that is found in the JustFaith bibliography. You may or may not find some criticism on capitalism as well that comes from the same documents in which you found these criticisms of socialism. Neither JustFaith nor the Catholic Church are Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Democratic or Capitalist. If anything, the Church is a Monarchy or perhaps even more specifically a Theocracy. But the Church does not suggest that our governments should be Theocracies. At the same time the Church has over time criticized Monarchies and Theocracies too.
JustFaith is about helping people learn to do whatever they can with the tools they have to help people understand that God loves everyone in the same way that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is trying to get the same point across. JustFaith is a catechetical pedagogy for adults that highlights Catholic social teaching. Just as your Respect Life committee at your diocese or parish uses a catechetical pedagogy for adults that highlights Catholic teaching on the sanctity of life. This does not mean that the two topics are not related. The fact is that there is a lot of overlap. That overlap is a reflection of the fact that both catechetical tools are teaching about the same person; who is Jesus Christ.
jewells17
Yes, I agree with you that sometimes “Social Justice Committees” can be a little of the mark and seem to be angry kinds of people. But that does not mean that “social justice” is a bunch of bunk. The Church has a long tradition of teaching of social justice through Catholic social teaching which starting in 1891 with Pope Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum. From that time on there has been consistent and regular encyclicals and other documents that have come out of Rome and individual national conferences of bishops, most notably in Medellin, Columbia. Benedict XVI just finished his encyclical Caritas in Veritate and one of the constitutions of the Second Vatican Council, Gaudium et Spes, was devoted to social justice.
Your description of social justice as a way of correcting wrongs done in the past is perhaps a bit simplistic. Social Justice is about helping people understand what the Church teaches us about human dignity and how we are created in the image and likeness of God. For instance, abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research and the death penalty are all social justice issues because they strike at the heart of the dignity of the human person. They are in fact the primary social justice issues.
I don’t know what city you live in, but might I humbly suggest that you go and take a class or two at your local seminary or Catholic college. I am not saying this with my nose stuck up in the air…but only as an invitation to learn more about your faith. It’s really, really interesting and fun stuff to learn.
I hope I am not coming across too aggressively. I am just hoping to lower the rhetoric level when it comes to Catholic people as they talk about Catholic social teaching.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

What do you make of the CCHD funded groups that openly promote abortion?

Grantees like “Young Workers United” are so blatantly pro-abortion that it’s hard to believe that the CCHD is ignorant of their views. It’s all on their web-site for crying out loud.

See this scan of the Young Workers United’s voting guide, taken from their website: bellarmineveritasministry.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/voter-guide2.jpg

Check out the research done by the Bellarmine Veritas Ministry for more of this: bellarmineveritasministry.org/campaigns/cchd/

Stylite

If you know that this group is still funded by CCHD, might I suggest that you bring your information about this group to the CCHD representative in your diocese. I’m sure that the CCHD representative would be happy to hear from you, as long as you approach that person with respect. Most often the CCHD folks in the diocese have other responsibilities and can miss things. They rely on folks like you who come across legitimate issues.
I have sat on CCHD committees where we have had to deny CCHD funding to groups based on proof we had they the group was acting against Catholic teaching. When we meet the group later we tell they why they did not receive funding and help the correct their actions in the community to reflect Catholic teaching. Sometimes they decide that they no longer want CCHD funding.
However, I have also seen it happen that someone has accused a group of doing something against Catholic teaching, only to find that the person who made the accusation fabricated the information. Usually it’s because the accuser does not like what they perceive to be the funded groups political leanings.
The point is that CCHD is doing its best to try to help make the country a better place to live and bring up families, and they do a good job of it. Sometimes things get missed. They need your help, not your condemnation. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[jewells17]

dixieagle
JustFaith does not have a curriculum specific to JustFaith alone. The program uses very classic Catholic materials that you can find in any CCD class, or Bible study, or seminary. It uses documents of the Catholic Church and many other materials that can be found in any church or Catholic school or seminary.
So, the quotes you have chosen on socialism may or may not be included in some of the reading that is found in the JustFaith bibliography. You may or may not find some criticism on capitalism as well that comes from the same documents in which you found these criticisms of socialism. Neither JustFaith nor the Catholic Church are Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Democratic or Capitalist. If anything, the Church is a Monarchy or perhaps even more specifically a Theocracy. But the Church does not suggest that our governments should be Theocracies. At the same time the Church has over time criticized Monarchies and Theocracies too.
JustFaith is about helping people learn to do whatever they can with the tools they have to help people understand that God loves everyone in the same way that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is trying to get the same point across. JustFaith is a catechetical pedagogy for adults that highlights Catholic social teaching. Just as your Respect Life committee at your diocese or parish uses a catechetical pedagogy for adults that highlights Catholic teaching on the sanctity of life. This does not mean that the two topics are not related. The fact is that there is a lot of overlap. That overlap is a reflection of the fact that both catechetical tools are teaching about the same person; who is Jesus Christ.
jewells17
Yes, I agree with you that sometimes “Social Justice Committees” can be a little of the mark and seem to be angry kinds of people. But that does not mean that “social justice” is a bunch of bunk. The Church has a long tradition of teaching of social justice through Catholic social teaching which starting in 1891 with Pope Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum. From that time on there has been consistent and regular encyclicals and other documents that have come out of Rome and individual national conferences of bishops, most notably in Medellin, Columbia. Benedict XVI just finished his encyclical Caritas in Veritate and one of the constitutions of the Second Vatican Council, Gaudium et Spes, was devoted to social justice.
Your description of social justice as a way of correcting wrongs done in the past is perhaps a bit simplistic. Social Justice is about helping people understand what the Church teaches us about human dignity and how we are created in the image and likeness of God. For instance, abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research and the death penalty are all social justice issues because they strike at the heart of the dignity of the human person. They are in fact the primary social justice issues.
I don’t know what city you live in, but might I humbly suggest that you go and take a class or two at your local seminary or Catholic college. I am not saying this with my nose stuck up in the air…but only as an invitation to learn more about your faith. It’s really, really interesting and fun stuff to learn.
I hope I am not coming across too aggressively. I am just hoping to lower the rhetoric level when it comes to Catholic people as they talk about Catholic social teaching.

My knowledge is experiential…I was around Peace and Social Justice Committes for eighteen years and I know what I saw and heard and read. Thanks for the advice…but again…I have been there and done that for many years. Peace be with you.

 

[Tigg]

Stephanie Block has written a series of articles to expose these groups. They are difficult to track because of their huge networking of ecumenical and interfaith groups which have similar names. They are generally a leftist attempt to neutralize true Catholic social justice teaching and most are part of the Liberation Theology crowd of community organizers. Some groups have been identified as also having been funded by George Soros. The dissenters list of progressives is very long. Be warned!

What Roth describes is a classic liberationist (Marxist) perspective in which the religious tradition is distorted to “reveal” class antagonisms and a “need” to restructure society along Marxist lines…

JustFaith materials include reading lists of works by other problematic authors, including Cloud of Witness by Jim Wallis, an evangelical minister who edits the magazine Sojourners – originally founded to support the anti-war and sanctuary movements. Currently, Wallis is promoting the New Sanctuary Movement to support illegal immigration in the US and the Faith in Public Life network of “spiritual progressives”, many of whom advocate abortion and homosexual advocacy. JustFaith also recommends Selected Readings in Liberation Theology by Gustavo Gutierrez & others.3 Another recommended book is Doing Justice by Dennis A. Jacobsen, which promotes the organizing principles of Saul Alinsky. These are not Catholic materials.

Nor does Jack Jezreel, the founder and director of JustFaith, intend to support authentic Catholic social justice teaching. Jezreel is longtime speaker for the dissident Catholic organization Call to Action, which exists to change church doctrine and structure along liberationist lines. He sees JustFaith has a way to “transform parishes”, as he believes they ought to be “transformed,” with parishes holding all parishioners’ goods in common and having a “shared economics”.5

catholicmediacoalition.org/just_faith.htm

 

[ljpgoodwin]

My knowledge is experiential…I was around Peace and Social Justice Committes for eighteen years and I know what I saw and heard and read. Thanks for the advice…but again…I have been there and done that for many years. Peace be with you.

jewells17

Being “around” and being involved are two different things. Do you have ideological differences with “peace and justice” groups? I do too sometimes. However CCHD is not one of the groups I have ideological differences with because CCHD is so truly Catholic and balanced.

What direct experience have you had with CCHD?

Is your distrust based on that you see CCHD as liberal?

Peace be with you too!

 

[ljpgoodwin]

Stephanie Block has written a series of articles to expose these groups. They are difficult to track because of their huge networking of ecumenical and interfaith groups which have similar names. They are generally a leftist attempt to neutralize true Catholic social justice teaching and most are part of the Liberation Theology crowd of community organizers. Some groups have been identified as also having been funded by George Soros. The dissenters list of progressives is very long. Be warned!

Just for the record, there is nothing wrong with being left. It is possible to be left leaning and Christian. There is no conflict in that. I don’t know who Stephanie Block is other that the Stephanie Block that came up when I Googled her. She doesn’t seem like someone who I would put a lot of trust in when talking about issues of faith.

Also, there is nothing wrong with community organizing. It is a very Catholic thing to be involved in the public forum.

There is nothing wrong with coming from the political right either. It is possible to be right leaning and Christian too.
One has to hold one’s nose to vote for either political party in this country. I am someone who is always calling my senators and congressmen asking them to not support anything to do with abortion and to repeal Roe v. Wade, to end the death penalty and to not fund embryonic stem cell research. I also call them and ask them to support more just laws on issues of war, immigration and health care. All of these issues I have just listed are in need of repair.

The point is that our Church is neither left or right…it is Catholic…universal.

 

[jewells17]

Stephanie Block has written a series of articles to expose these groups. They are difficult to track because of their huge networking of ecumenical and interfaith groups which have similar names. They are generally a leftist attempt to neutralize true Catholic social justice teaching and most are part of the Liberation Theology crowd of community organizers. Some groups have been identified as also having been funded by George Soros. The dissenters list of progressives is very long. Be warned!

Thanks for this posting…it speaks truth to power. Will look for the book and also share this info with other folks at my church that want to know the various sides of this topic.

 

[Tigg]

Just for the record, there is nothing wrong with being left. It is possible to be left leaning and Christian. There is no conflict in that. I don’t know who Stephanie Block is other that the Stephanie Block that came up when I Googled her. She doesn’t seem like someone who I would put a lot of trust in when talking about issues of faith.

Also, there is nothing wrong with community organizing. It is a very Catholic thing to be involved in the public forum.

There is nothing wrong with coming from the political right either. It is possible to be right leaning and Christian too.
One has to hold one’s nose to vote for either political party in this country. I am someone who is always calling my senators and congressmen asking them to not support anything to do with abortion and to repeal Roe v. Wade, to end the death penalty and to not fund embryonic stem cell research. I also call them and ask them to support more just laws on issues of war, immigration and health care. All of these issues I have just listed are in need of repair.

The point is that our Church is neither left or right…it is Catholic…universal.

The point is that most of these groups are dissenting from Catholic moral teaching. They promote abortion rights for the poor, and same-sex marriage. Some of them are radical feminist groups (like Sr. Joan Chittister) who received a cease and desist order from Rome after her scathing rant against the hierarchy of the Church and refusal to submit to the Holy Father regarding her promotion of women’s ordination. The CHD has funded radical environmental groups, and even groups that oppose home schooling and personal property rights. The Campaign for Human Development very seldom gives money to help the poor directly; they give instead to groups that promote specific political agendas and have hi-jacked the term “social justice” to mean giving political clout (through community organizing) to the poor. Much of their theology is incompatible with true Catholic teaching.

Here is a partial list of the dissenters with links to further explain their very UN-Catholic ideology:

ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm

There have been many threads on this forum to educate us. I would suggest looking at some of the excellent links provided here in order to know just what your donation is being used for. Unfortunately, Catholic money has gone to causes completely contrary to true Catholic teaching and many of these groups are openly promoting a form of Marxist/Socialist government.

bellarmineveritasministry.org/campaigns/cchd/

lospequenos.org/FIPLMaterial/TheTangledWeb.htm

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284360&highlight=USCCB+Acorn

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=275200&highlight=USCCB+Acorn

 

[ljpgoodwin]

The point is that most of these groups are dissenting from Catholic moral teaching. They promote abortion rights for the poor, and same-sex marriage. Some of them are radical feminist groups (like Sr. Joan Chittister) who received a cease and desist order from Rome after her scathing rant against the hierarchy of the Church and refusal to submit to the Holy Father regarding her promotion of women’s ordination. The CHD has funded radical environmental groups, and even groups that oppose home schooling and personal property rights. The Campaign for Human Development very seldom gives money to help the poor directly; they give instead to groups that promote specific political agendas and have hi-jacked the term “social justice” to mean giving political clout (through community organizing) to the poor. Much of their theology is incompatible with true Catholic teaching.

Here is a partial list of the dissenters with links to further explain their very UN-Catholic ideology:

ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm

There have been many threads on this forum to educate us. I would suggest looking at some of the excellent links provided here in order to know just what your donation is being used for. Unfortunately, Catholic money has gone to causes completely contrary to true Catholic teaching and many of these groups are openly promoting a form of Marxist/Socialist government.

bellarmineveritasministry.org/campaigns/cchd/

lospequenos.org/FIPLMaterial/TheTangledWeb.htm

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284360&highlight=USCCB+Acorn

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=275200&highlight=USCCB+Acorn

What I have noticed is that when people start to read the documents of the Church and trusted theologians such as de Lubac, Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II, Gustavo in a good Catholic setting such as a Catholic University or a local seminary the fears that I see expressed her seem to diminish. The Church is much bigger and more resilient than what Stephanie Block seems to understand. All of the above websites you have listed are something less than what our good Catholic academic tradition has to offer.

It is true that ACORN did mess up. That is why CCHD has stopped funding them.

 

[Tigg]

The Church is much bigger and more resilient than what Stephanie Block seems to understand.

This is a red herring and isn’t about Stephanie Block. She is only one of many organizations of credible Catholic authors and scholars. If you had looked at the various links and read them, you would begin to understood the depth of the progressivism that has invaded the Church via these organizations. It is to the detriment of the Faith. And I’m sorry, but I do not want blood on my hands by donating to a group that promotes abortion.

 

[Mimi]

Another group like IAF is Gamaliel (Foundation).

Since our parish was asked to become members of the local group in my city a yr ago, I decided to do research on it and found it is an affiliate of Gamaliel.

Here’s some of what I found – we need to know who we are allied with and where our money is going (stewardship).

1. 
   *]Gamaliel is one of the many “faith-based organizations” which share a similar ideology, goals, and subtley misuse Holy Scripture to lure in Christians. The current head of Gamaliel Foundation is Gregory Galuzzo, a former Jesuit.
   
   *]All leaders in organizations under Gamaliel Foundation must read Doing Justice by Dennis A Jacobsen. Jacobsen is a Lutheran minister from Milwaukee and director of the Gamaliel National Clergy Caucus.
   
   *]Catholics listed in the index are all known dissidents: Fr. Leonardo Boff , Fr. Teilhard de Chardin , Fr. Karl Rahner , Rosemary Radford Ruether . (Exceptions are Mother Theresa, St. Augustine, and Dorothy Day.)
   
   ]Doing Justice mentions the Industrial Areas Foundation as well as Gamaliel Foundation, both of which use principles of Saul Alinsky (Rules for Radicals). Altogether, Alinsky provides eleven rules of the ethics of means and ends. They are morally relativistic. This line of thought and tactics are totally incompatible with authentic Catholic social teaching which condemns moral relativism (modernism *) as heresy.
   
   *]Leadership training for Gamaliel (including JOB and other “faith-based organizations”) includes studying situational ethics. This means moral judgements can change according to the situation. This is totally incompatible with authentice Catholic teaching.
   
   *]The Gamaliel Foundation receives grants from the Bauman Family Foundation, the Public Welfare Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the Ford Foundation, George Soros’s Open Society Institute, and others.
   
   *] George Soros also provides funding for ACORN, Catholics for a Free Choice (pro-abortion), Democratic Party, EMILY’s List (pro-abortion), NARAL Pro-Choice America, Planned Parenthood, and many others.
   
   (more in a follow-up post)

 

[Mimi]

1. 
   *]ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/dissorg.htm#Call%20to%20Action:
   
   *]The most visible dissenting group which is a movement of laity and religious seeking to reform the “sinful structure” of the “patriarchal” Church. One could call them the “mother of all dissenting groups” - feminist pun intended. CTA is infamous since its 1994 conference coverage on the CBS news program 60 Minutes. CTA promotes dissent against Church teachings on a broad front, including women’s ordination, homosexuality, creation spirituality, married priesthood, and liturgical reforms, while incorporating new age and Wiccan spirituality. Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Many members belong to local groups called “small faith communities.” Membership draws heavily from former clergy, feminist nuns, and homosexuals. CTA serves on the national task force for the We Are Church referendum. Get a more complete understanding of their position from their own information.
   *]Also, read Call to Action, or Call to Apostasy by Dr. Brian Clowes, Human Life International. www.hli.org
   
   *]Modernism - Essentially, modernism is a belief system whereby truth is relative rather than absolute; where truth “evolves” over time and needs to be “best understood” relative to the current “modern age” in which one lives. Simply put, “newer is better.” This is a general term which can be understood under many other practical, more focused names, such as “moral relativism” or “situation ethics.” A person who follows modernism beliefs is called a modernist. Pope St. Pius X aptly called Modernism the “synthesis of all heresies.” See the definitive Church proclamation regarding Modernism in the Encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis (On the Doctrine of the Modernists), written by Pope St. Pius X.
   
   *]George Soros: b 1930; one of the most powerful men on earth; multi-billionaire, financier, philanthropist. According to Richard Poe, co-author (with David Horowitz) of the 2006 book The Shadow Party: "The Shadow Party is the real power driving the Democrat machine. It is a network of radicals dedicated to transforming our constitutional republic into a socialist hive. The leader of these radicals is … George Soros. He has essentially privatized the Democratic Party, bringing it under his personal control. Some of his groups promote abortion, euthanasia, legalizing drugs, and granting entitlements to immigrants.
   
   discoverthenetworks.org
   A Guide to the Policial Left
   This is one of the sites I found early on in my research. An article posted there corroborated what I’d read in articles (primarily by Stephanie Block) at CMC.
   discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/Words%20Matter%20Yep%20They%20Do.html
   Another is Senator Stealth by Stanley Kurtz.
   
   So, I think the charge that “the information in certain articles can’t be trusted” is answered. Apparently, it is not only Catholic journalists who have noticed a particular ideology in Gamaliel, IAF and Community Organizing. Block has been researching and writing about Organizing for about 14 years. I think that gives her some credibility!
   The "social justice" issues Community Organizers are about are not the same as the Church's. And make no mistake about it, C.O.'s definition of "comprehensive health care" always includes abortion under reproductive services. This has become so taken for granted in the USA that I do not know how it can be extracted from the language and legislation of Health Care. Thank God that some bishops ARE making an effort to help us understand why we cannot be part of that, or that abortion (and embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia) cannot be part of a health care or insurance package that Catholics can agree with.

 

[Mimi]

(Not to co-opt this thread, but just one more little thing.)

To discover the counterfeit, one must study the real thing in detail.

This is so with Catholic Social Justice, too.

We should strive to have a better understanding of what Authentic Social Justice IS, so we can recognize when a group comes along under the “social justice” banner (or just “justice”).

I have recommended a short, but clearly written book several times on CA forums and to friends. I have not done a concentrated study (yet), but have read through the book.

Citizens of the Heavenly City: A Catechism of Catholic Social Teaching by Arthur Hippler. It bears an endorsement from Archbishop Ray Burke. It can even be used as the text for a high school level course on social justice issues. If you google the title, several sources will come up where you may order it. Mine came with an answer guide and was about $16.00.

God bless,
Mimi

 

[jewells17]

Another group like IAF is Gamaliel (Foundation).

Since our parish was asked to become members of the local group in my city a yr ago, I decided to do research on it and found it is an affiliate of Gamaliel.

Here’s some of what I found – we need to know who we are allied with and where our money is going (stewardship).

1. 
   *]Gamaliel is one of the many “faith-based organizations” which share a similar ideology, goals, and subtley misuse Holy Scripture to lure in Christians. The current head of Gamaliel Foundation is Gregory Galuzzo, a former Jesuit.
   
   *]All leaders in organizations under Gamaliel Foundation must read Doing Justice by Dennis A Jacobsen. Jacobsen is a Lutheran minister from Milwaukee and director of the Gamaliel National Clergy Caucus.
   
   *]Catholics listed in the index are all known dissidents: Fr. Leonardo Boff , Fr. Teilhard de Chardin , Fr. Karl Rahner , Rosemary Radford Ruether . (Exceptions are Mother Theresa, St. Augustine, and Dorothy Day.)
   
   ]Doing Justice mentions the Industrial Areas Foundation as well as Gamaliel Foundation, both of which use principles of Saul Alinsky (Rules for Radicals). Altogether, Alinsky provides eleven rules of the ethics of means and ends. They are morally relativistic. This line of thought and tactics are totally incompatible with authentic Catholic social teaching which condemns moral relativism (modernism *) as heresy.
   
   *]Leadership training for Gamaliel (including JOB and other “faith-based organizations”) includes studying situational ethics. This means moral judgements can change according to the situation. This is totally incompatible with authentice Catholic teaching.
   
   *]The Gamaliel Foundation receives grants from the Bauman Family Foundation, the Public Welfare Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the Ford Foundation, George Soros’s Open Society Institute, and others.
   
   *] George Soros also provides funding for ACORN, Catholics for a Free Choice (pro-abortion), Democratic Party, EMILY’s List (pro-abortion), NARAL Pro-Choice America, Planned Parenthood, and many others.
   
   (more in a follow-up post
   Hope you send this info to Glenn Beck…so many are finally able to share their firsthand accounts like yours.

 

[jewells17]

God bless you Mimi and I hope you share your info with Glenn Beck. The entire peace and unity movement is all about the things you said. I was an ignorant part of it at one time…and woke up! It is time for those who stand for truth to speak it…no matter what the cost. Our Lord told us the truth set’s us free…so I pray we might stay grounded in His truth and love.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

God bless you Mimi and I hope you share your info with Glenn Beck. The entire peace and unity movement is all about the things you said. I was an ignorant part of it at one time…and woke up! It is time for those who stand for truth to speak it…no matter what the cost. Our Lord told us the truth set’s us free…so I pray we might stay grounded in His truth and love.

Well this paragraph says it all. So Saul Alinsky has been accused of having a “the means justifies the ends” philosophy. In fact the quote from Alinsky himself is “ALMOST any means justifies the end”. When I look at the quote above I see to things, first I see “It is time for those who stand for truth to speak it…NO MATTER WHAT THE COST”. if that isn’t “the means justify the ends”, I don’t know what else it could mean.

The second and for me the most disturbing is the mention of Glenn Beck. I am truly saddened by the fact that so many of my brothers and sisters have been overly influenced by FOX NEWS. There is one way to tell if I am living on the fringe. The question I ask people who like Mother Angelica is: Can you see anyone who is more to the right or more conservative than Mother Angelica? If the answer is no or not many, chances are that you are living in the extreme. I ask the same question of FOX NEWS devotees. FOX NEWS has done a very big disservice to this country and Catholicism. There are very important distinctions between Catholicism and Evangelical, Fundamentalist Churches. The Catholic Church is losing many of our blessed souls to the Fundamentalist Christians. The big problem is that many of these people don’t know that they are more Fundamentalist Christians than they are Catholic, so they continue to identify as Catholic.

Again, I urge you to PLEASE go and study in a post-secondary school setting, what our Church teaches from your local Catholic UNIVERSITY or SEMINARY. A high school education is not enough in this kind of discourse. The internet and FOX NEWS, and a lot of other news organizations are not the place to get an understanding of what is morality and what “…and the Truth will set you free” means.

 

[jewells17]

Well this paragraph says it all. So Saul Alinsky has been accused of having a “the means justifies the ends” philosophy. In fact the quote from Alinsky himself is “ALMOST any means justifies the end”. When I look at the quote above I see to things, first I see “It is time for those who stand for truth to speak it…NO MATTER WHAT THE COST”. if that isn’t “the means justify the ends”, I don’t know what else it could mean.

The second and for me the most disturbing is the mention of Glenn Beck. I am truly saddened by the fact that so many of my brothers and sisters have been overly influenced by FOX NEWS. There is one way to tell if I am living on the fringe. The question I ask people who like Mother Angelica is: Can you see anyone who is more to the right or more conservative than Mother Angelica? If the answer is no or not many, chances are that you are living in the extreme. I ask the same question of FOX NEWS devotees. FOX NEWS has done a very big disservice to this country and Catholicism. There are very important distinctions between Catholicism and Evangelical, Fundamentalist Churches. The Catholic Church is losing many of our blessed souls to the Fundamentalist Christians. The big problem is that many of these people don’t know that they are more Fundamentalist Christians than they are Catholic, so they continue to identify as Catholic.

Again, I urge you to PLEASE go and study in a post-secondary school setting, what our Church teaches from your local Catholic UNIVERSITY or SEMINARY. A high school education is not enough in this kind of discourse. The internet and FOX NEWS, and a lot of other news organizations are not the place to get an understanding of what is morality and what “…and the Truth will set you free” means.

Speaking the truth no matter what it cost…means telling the truth even if it makes you unpopular, causes you to be shunned or ends up causing you to be attacked as you have done to me and so may others on this thread. That is what it means…nothing more and nothing less. And what bothers you the most is I am more educated on this topic than you would like me to be…which is why you try to make me look ignorant and in need of further education. You are in my prayers and I hope you can try to spend some time in an Adoration Chapel so you can really feel Gods peace.

 

[Tigg]

Mimi’s research is the reason I first became aware of these groups and it availed me greatly. Thank you, Mimi for all your hard work!

Just another note…as we study Church history we know that certain heresies formed even at the beginning. St. Paul was constantly refuting them and even rebuked Peter at one point. Because of the current trend of academia toward relativism, and the groups that have been mentioned that have such innocent sounding names, we must really beware, even in the most unlikely places. For instance, I’m teaching religious ed this year; imagine my astonishment when I found out that Dr. Robert Ludwig, professor of Catholic studies at De Paul University in Chicago is writing articles that have appeared in The Catechist Magazine. He is a board member of Call to Action (see Mimi’s comment above) and an ardent supporter of Voice of the Faithful, another dissident group. He has written a book called “Reconstructing Catholicism for a New Generation.” One reviewer of this book wrote, "The reconstructed Catholicism which Professor Ludwig has formulated has little in common with the Catholic faith. It is a veritable Hydra of heresies’ (Homiletic & Pastoral Review, July 1996).

We are living in such deceptive times in government and the Church; what is needed is an open heart to truth and constant prayer for discernment. We, as laity, must guard our own faith against these insidious groups. We do, however, have a champion on our side - Our Blessed Mother under the title of Our Lady of Victories, who has always led the fight against heresies throughout the centuries. Have recourse to her as she opposes those who are revolting against the sound and unshakeable principles that the Magisterium has handed down throughout the ages.

 

[yayi238]

So many times jlpgoodwin has humbly recommended that those contrary to his way of thinking “go study at a seminary near you.”

It seems investigating information and following it to conclusions on one’s own is contrary to jlpgoodwin’s preferred method of learning.

Christians are to be docile. Docile means teachable. It does not mean gullible.
God gave us our intellect and our free will. Some big organized machines seem to want to dismiss both of those God-given gifts. Even Alinsky-whose methods the Catholic church seems to be espousing-did not join any organizations, even the ones he started
I find that some “social Justice” groups simply work on mis-placed compassion.
I donated to CCHD over the years–I NEVER intended that money to be mis-used, but now I find it was. That fact has raised my suspicions re: CCHD. My conclusion–I will no longer donate to CCHD. For me that was a teachable moment. Since USCCB is supposed to monitor CCHD I also now question USCCB and I will try to follow their future actions while continuing to pray for all involved.
God bless us all.