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HarryStotle
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And is national security completely unnecessary, while social welfare, at any cost, always necessary?
Socialism and Catholicism
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Socrates92
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No. I wouldn’t say so.
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o_mlly
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Well, that conclusion depends on one’s definition of “socialism”. All developed countries have social programs to assist those in the community who are in need.
However, the church teaches that until necessary, the larger unit of society must not usurp the smaller in its authority to administer to the needs of its own. That means the responsibility to provide for one’s needs begins with the individual, the family, the local church and the local community and lastly, not firstly, the central government.
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AlNg
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When you spend money to go thousands of miles overseas to napalm innocent children in their own country and try to burn them to death, I would say that it is money which is lost. What have these children done to deserve to be burned to death? OTOH, when you spend money from Social Security to help a widow support her five or six children, i would say that this is money well spent.
We have had over 400 contributions, when the whole issue could have been solved in one, which is , as I have stressed, ‘it all depends on what you mean by socialism’.
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HarryStotle
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What you are doing is a horribly false comparison.HarryStotle:
When you spend money to go thousands of miles overseas to napalm innocent children in their own country and try to burn them to death, I would say that it is money which is lost. What have these children done to deserve to be burned to death? OTOH, when you spend money from Social Security to help a widow support her five or six children, i would say that this is money well spent.
You are taking the worst possible instance of supposed “defence” spending and comparing it to the best instance of “welfare” spending, then basing your entire case of “defence” vs “welfare” spending on those two examples. That is a terrible way of arguing the big picture.
Why not just claim the entire security/policing budget of a country ought to be given to widows and orphans because security is a horrid thing while caring for widows and orphans is unimpeachable?
Perhaps distortion is rampant in your supposed “argument?”
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HarryStotle
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Sure, and if “what you mean by socialism” is “heaven on earth”, then I suppose you have made your case.o_mlly:
We have had over 400 contributions, when the whole issue could have been solved in one, which is , as I have stressed, ‘it all depends on what you mean by socialism’.
Unfortunately, reality doesn’t quite transpire as a mathematically constrained function of pure nominalism.
Reality happens, contrary to the empty handwaving of ideologues.
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AlNg
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But there are so many more examples.
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StudentMI
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Found this from a Ken MacLeod novel called the Star Fraction.
“… what we always meant by socialism wasn’t something you forced on people, it was people organizing themselves as they pleased into co-ops, collectives, communes, unions… And if socialism really is better, more efficient than capitalism, then it can bloody well compete with capitalism. So we decided, forget all the statist **** and the violence: the best place for socialism is the closest to a free market you can get!”
“… what we always meant by socialism wasn’t something you forced on people, it was people organizing themselves as they pleased into co-ops, collectives, communes, unions… And if socialism really is better, more efficient than capitalism, then it can bloody well compete with capitalism. So we decided, forget all the statist **** and the violence: the best place for socialism is the closest to a free market you can get!”
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HarryStotle
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A good article comparing the health care received, in the US and Canada, by a couple involved in a serious accident. Reveals the ‘hidden differences’ between the two systems.
www.americanthinker.com
The Canadian Health Care Myth
I recently had the opportunity to listen to two Canadian citizens discuss the Canadian health care system and their personal experiences within it. They were a very successful, middle-aged couple who had been involved in a motor vehicle ac...
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StudentMI
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“Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.”
“Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.”
www.catholicculture.org
The more I read of Catholic social teaching, the more convinced I am that we truly need to move beyond capitalism and socialism.
“Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.”
Library : Quadragesimo Anno (On Reconstruction Of The Social Order)
Quadragesimo Anno (On Reconstruction Of The Social Order) Encyclical of Pope Pius XI Quadragesimo Anno (On Reconstruction Of The Social Order) promulgated on May 15, 1931.
www.catholicculture.org
The more I read of Catholic social teaching, the more convinced I am that we truly need to move beyond capitalism and socialism.
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Metis1
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Maybe some should read the W.H.O. stats on healthcare outcomes instead of just personal accounts.
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HarryStotle
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HarryStotle
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Why not provide a link to the study so we can assess the “facts” contained in it?
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HarryStotle
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Some stats…
WHO country rankings:
Spain #7
Greece #14
Colombia #22
Saudi Arabia #26
Morocco #29
Chile #34
Dominica #35
Coasta Rica #36
US #37
Infant Mortality
Spain 3.3
Greece 4.6
Colombia 13.6
Saudi Arabia 13.2
Morocco 21.9
Chile 6.6
Dominica 10.6
Costa Rica 8.0
US 5.8
The WHO rankings need to be reviewed based on something other than “socialist” goals.
Most innovative countries in Medicine and Bioscience.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
The Most Innovative Countries In Biology And Medicine
Is the U.S. really losing its edge in biology and medicine.
www.forbes.com
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Metis1
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When a country like Colombia beats us on outcomes, we gotta problem, especially because we spend more than double of what they spend if my memory us correct. As for innovations, that’s all fine & dandy, but the progress along that line is largely wiped out because of problem with accessibility and subsequent outcomes.
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EssentialBeing
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DEMOCRACY applies both capitalism & socialism
COMMUNISM applies both capitalism & socialism
The main difference only being to what degree are these applied
CATHOLICISM applies both capitalism and socialism and we are only arguing to “what degree”
just a thought
COMMUNISM applies both capitalism & socialism
The main difference only being to what degree are these applied
CATHOLICISM applies both capitalism and socialism and we are only arguing to “what degree”
just a thought
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I think we have established that capitalist US has poor health statistics.
Its education is also mediocre compared to other countries.
I see in the web:
Not much has changed since 2000, when the U.S. scored along the OECD average in every subject: This year, the U.S. scores below average in math and ranks 17th among the 34 OECD countries. It scores close to the OECD average in science and reading and ranks 21st in science and 17th in reading.
As a person partially educated in the US and who admits at its best that the US education is first class I am saddened by these results.
I am also saddened that the quality of life, education, healthcare and general standards of living are falling in capitalist US.
The current young Americans will be perhaps the first to have appreciable lower living standards than their parents and higher debts. Will they be able to afford decent housing and fresh air?
But let us be optimistic. Perhaps a good Irish-America president, the second in history, could improve things.
America has contributed to alleviating poverty all around the world and it is a pity that this rich country cannot feed, house educate and look after its people.
Let us unite in prayer for each other remembering that God is good and almighty, and people are not stupid, You cannot fool all of the people all of the time, and turkeys do not always vote for Christmas. It is encouraging to note that becoming the Democratic candidate for president was not sold to the highest bidder. America will not get the best president money can buy.
Its education is also mediocre compared to other countries.
I see in the web:
Not much has changed since 2000, when the U.S. scored along the OECD average in every subject: This year, the U.S. scores below average in math and ranks 17th among the 34 OECD countries. It scores close to the OECD average in science and reading and ranks 21st in science and 17th in reading.
As a person partially educated in the US and who admits at its best that the US education is first class I am saddened by these results.
I am also saddened that the quality of life, education, healthcare and general standards of living are falling in capitalist US.
The current young Americans will be perhaps the first to have appreciable lower living standards than their parents and higher debts. Will they be able to afford decent housing and fresh air?
But let us be optimistic. Perhaps a good Irish-America president, the second in history, could improve things.
America has contributed to alleviating poverty all around the world and it is a pity that this rich country cannot feed, house educate and look after its people.
Let us unite in prayer for each other remembering that God is good and almighty, and people are not stupid, You cannot fool all of the people all of the time, and turkeys do not always vote for Christmas. It is encouraging to note that becoming the Democratic candidate for president was not sold to the highest bidder. America will not get the best president money can buy.
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AlNg
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How does a government move beyond both capitalism and socialism?
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StudentMI
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One could do worse than reading the great Encyclicals. I’m not saying that flippantly, I mean it. There are many great insights in them.
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