Socialized healthcare

[vern_humphrey]

So waht do you propose? And don’t tell me about the HSAs because those who are starting off on the footing of a disability don’t really have that option. Now do you want us to go back to the days when if you couldn’t afford anything you just stayed home and quietly passed? We can let people keep their private insurance and provide public assistance for the rest. It can be done. That would not be socialized healthcare to the extreme that everyone is so worried about. But it would provide for the general better health of everyone.

You have problems remembering things, don’t youi?

I explained long ago how MSAs (not HSAs) work – including how those who cannot afford medical treatment apply using their income tax return. They receive assistance based on their actual declared income.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

that’s the kind of system found in just about every western country outside the U.S (except for Japan and Germany where the government subsidizes the poors insurance premiums). The real issue is “I don’t want to have to pay tax towards it”.

This is really what the issue here is all about. It’s based on an ideology that says that the worst possible evil, bar none, is a tax.

 

[BamaRider]

Wabrams is askin-

Do those with private insurance get an exemption from paying higher taxes to fund the public insurance system?

Shoot, you know they’re NEVER let ya get away with *that *scheme. They want YOU to pay for YOURS, and everybody else too.

 

[BamaRider]

I’d like to post this question for Vern or anyone else. (who is wise in such matters).

Explain how the price of Lasix surgery keeps coming down while everything else in the medical field goes up?

What are the dynamics in that field that is not being applied across the board?

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’d like to post this question for Vern or anyone else. (who is wise in such matters).

Explain how the price of Lasix surgery keeps coming down while everything else in the medical field goes up?

What are the dynamics in that field that is not being applied across the board?

Competition. Relatively few health plans pay for Lasix, so people have to buy their own, and they bargain for it.

I got mine free.

(As I grew older, I became nearsighted in one eye, and farsighted in the other – that’s what Lasix does for you.)

 

[wabrams]

Go ahead. But with enough of that the government will have to work at a deficit to supply this system or raise the overall rate. Why are we so afraid to treat our neighbor to this? Are we worshipping money?

It’s only fair; if someone is happy w/ their private insurance, they shouldn’t be made to pay for another insurance policy they don’t need. With regards to greed, giving to our neighbors should come from the heart, not from legislation.

 

[wabrams]

Wabrams is askin-

Shoot, you know they’re NEVER let ya get away with *that *scheme. They want YOU to pay for YOURS, and everybody else too.

Oh, you know it brother; but I just couldn’t help but ask.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Go ahead. But with enough of that the government will have to work at a deficit to supply this system or raise the overall rate. Why are we so afraid to treat our neighbor to this? Are we worshipping money?

Well, I’ve long believed that we print the words “In God We Trust” on the god we trust in. I also believe that the civil religion of the US is the worship of money.

 

[goofyjim]

You have problems remembering things, don’t youi?

I explained long ago how MSAs (not HSAs) work – including how those who cannot afford medical treatment apply using their income tax return. They receive assistance based on their actual declared income.

Which sometimes is nothing but Social Security. So they should have health coverage like the rest of us without having to set up an MSA out of that meager amount.

 

[goofyjim]

It’s only fair; if someone is happy w/ their private insurance, they shouldn’t be made to pay for another insurance policy they don’t need. With regards to greed, giving to our neighbors should come from the heart, not from legislation.

Granted it should. But when you lower the taxes and reduce the government services charitable donations don’t ever go up enough to make up for the loss of those services. So they must continue to be provided.

 

[BamaRider]

Socialized Healthcare in the UK is failing. Because of shortages many women, are being told to have babies at home with midwives, in a bath tub. Straight outta the 19th century. Linky-

independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/huge-rise-in-number-of-home-births-796618.html

Quote from article-

*Although hospital trusts all maintain that they offer women the option of a home birth, reality suggests otherwise. Newham, in east London, last week became the latest hospital to suspend its home-birth service because of staff shortages. Midwife vacancy rates in the capital are around 30 per cent. *

And otherwise intelligent people want to sign up for this?

Right now today, any mother, can walk in ANY ER, and have her baby delivered with the entire staff and equipment at her disposal. Insurance or not. We all know it. Nobody in this country goes without essential healthcare.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Which sometimes is nothing but Social Security. So they should have health coverage like the rest of us without having to set up an MSA out of that meager amount.

You must be having a bad day, Jim – you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

Assistance, based on income, will vary from 100% to 0%. Understand?

And, of course, people on Social Security already have Medicare.

 

[goofyjim]

You must be having a bad day, Jim – you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

Assistance, based on income, will vary from 100% to 0%. Understand?

And, of course, people on Social Security already have Medicare.

Now do you know how difficult it is to get off medicare on to private insurance, thanks to those who say mental illness should not be covered equally? It is virtually impossible. This is why I applaud the recent legislation requiring insurers to cover mental illness. It is a physical disease like anything else and should be approached as such.

 

[wabrams]

Granted it should. But when you lower the taxes and reduce the government services charitable donations don’t ever go up enough to make up for the loss of those services. So they must continue to be provided.

Agreed, except for the statement about lowered taxes. That isn’t the problem: government inefficientcy is the problem. Instead of raising taxes and letting the government waste even more of our tax dollars, lets get their spending reined in.

 

[Newbie2]

Now do you know how difficult it is to get off medicare on to private insurance, thanks to those who say mental illness should not be covered equally? It is virtually impossible. This is why I applaud the recent legislation requiring insurers to cover mental illness. It is a physical disease like anything else and should be approached as such.

Not necessarily. Not all mental illness has an organic or physiological cause. But your point is well taken; how does one get coverage for such diseases when they aren’t covered and one cannot afford it?

 

[Al_Masetti]

Not necessarily. Not all mental illness has an organic or physiological cause. But your point is well taken; how does one get coverage for such diseases when they aren’t covered and one cannot afford it?

People can’t force other people to treat them.

If, for example, doctors became government employees their hours would tend to be normal government office hours. And there is no way to force someone to become a doctor.

Some diseases are untreatable. Not curable. And that includes some mental illnesses.

In terms of physical ailments: eat right, stay healthy, drive carefully. But sometimes folks get really unlucky and come down with a disease with no name. No joke; I worked in Africa as did some of my friends … and some of them just … died. No diagnosis. They just wasted away and died. I have a list of some of the tropical diseases that DO have names … but they are neither curable nor pronouncable.

WIth respect to mental illness, if people don’t behave themselves, they will either be incarcerated (if they commit a crime) or medicated / sedated (if they are judged to be a danger to themselves or to society, owing to mental illness). If they have a family, the family may be able to take care of them; but it the person becomes unmanageable, there isn’t much alternative except incarceration or sedation.

Psychology is helpful in cases of neurosis and a few other things. But the training necessary to treat those cases is extremely difficult to get and very expensive; it takes years or decades. Which is why there is so much reliance on psychotropic drugs; they are easier than psychology.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) can be treated with Eye Movement Integration (EMI), Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and a few other modalities, but extensive training is needed.

The most helpful approaches to treating some issues are things like 12-step programs such as AA or SA or GA. And those are totally voluntary … run by the participants … with no government or professional involvement. In fact, since one of the steps refers to a “higher power”, the government is not really allowed to get involved or to recommend or refer folks to 12-step programs … the 12-step programs are not “value-free” … whereas the government is secular … i.e., “value-free” … and there is this “thing” about separation of church and state.

In most cases … the old 80-20 rule … people fix themselves. That’s one of the reasons for the popularity of self-help books and radio programs like “Dr. Laura”, who also has written some remarkable books. Her latest book is “Stop Whining, Start Living”.

drlaura.com/main/books.html

Basically, folks have to figure out what their problem is and fix it themselves … or … it comes back to the incarceration / medication / sedation approach. All three have serious undesirable side effects.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I got timed out while editing my previous remarks.

What I wanted to insert is this: the government is openly hostile to some treatment modalities, even when proven effective.

So, socialized healthcare is no guarantee of effective treatment.

 

[goofyjim]

People can’t force other people to treat them.

If, for example, doctors became government employees their hours would tend to be normal government office hours. And there is no way to force someone to become a doctor.

Some diseases are untreatable. Not curable. And that includes some mental illnesses.

In terms of physical ailments: eat right, stay healthy, drive carefully. But sometimes folks get really unlucky and come down with a disease with no name. No joke; I worked in Africa as did some of my friends … and some of them just … died. No diagnosis. They just wasted away and died. I have a list of some of the tropical diseases that DO have names … but they are neither curable nor pronouncable.

WIth respect to mental illness, if people don’t behave themselves, they will either be incarcerated (if they commit a crime) or medicated / sedated (if they are judged to be a danger to themselves or to society, owing to mental illness). If they have a family, the family may be able to take care of them; but it the person becomes unmanageable, there isn’t much alternative except incarceration or sedation.

Psychology is helpful in cases of neurosis and a few other things. But the training necessary to treat those cases is extremely difficult to get and very expensive; it takes years or decades. Which is why there is so much reliance on psychotropic drugs; they are easier than psychology.

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) can be treated with Eye Movement Integration (EMI), Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) and a few other modalities, but extensive training is needed.

The most helpful approaches to treating some issues are things like 12-step programs such as AA or SA or GA. And those are totally voluntary … run by the participants … with no government or professional involvement. In fact, since one of the steps refers to a “higher power”, the government is not really allowed to get involved or to recommend or refer folks to 12-step programs … the 12-step programs are not “value-free” … whereas the government is secular … i.e., “value-free” … and there is this “thing” about separation of church and state.

In most cases … the old 80-20 rule … people fix themselves. That’s one of the reasons for the popularity of self-help books and radio programs like “Dr. Laura”, who also has written some remarkable books. Her latest book is “Stop Whining, Start Living”.

drlaura.com/main/books.html

Basically, folks have to figure out what their problem is and fix it themselves … or … it comes back to the incarceration / medication / sedation approach. All three have serious undesirable side effects.

Do you seriously believe that we should just lock people up for schizophrenia or bipolar disorder? They are not treatable by mere psychology but must be treated with medication and the person is not responsible. These are inherited conditions. They cannot just be fixed by the individuals themselves.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Do you seriously believe that we should just lock people up for schizophrenia or bipolar disorder? They are not treatable by mere psychology but must be treated with medication and the person is not responsible. These are inherited conditions. They cannot just be fixed by the individuals themselves.

PLEASE reread what I wrote.

I did not write what you said I wrote.

 

[goofyjim]

PLEASE reread what I wrote.

I did not write what you said I wrote.

And you wrote that people have to fix things themselves. One cannot do that with mental illness. It is not something that the individual causes. They do not deliberately misbehave so incarceration of the mentally ill is not the answer. They deserve treatment and equal treatment under health insurance at that. Which is why I am glad that Congress passed the law it did last week.