Socialized Medicine

[Grat02]

I am a clinical manager in an acute care hospital. I can tell you federal law prohibits hospitals from withholding care from anyone regardless of their inability to pay. Hospitals write off millions of dollars each year for medical bills they are unable to collect from those who cannot afford it. Moreover, they have programs designed especially for those who are in poverty that will reduce or eliminate their medical bills. People are not going without healthcare at the level that those who want to push socialized medicine are saying they are. Ours isn’t perfect, but it’s the best. There is no such thing as free healthcare. The cost will be consumed by sacrificing quality for the sake of quantity.

 

[emily47017]

Hey, here is an idea. If you want cheep health care, deregulate it.

hucksters on every street corner with patent medicines?

 

[Indyann]

Hey, here is an idea. If you want cheep health care, deregulate it. Eliminate the FDA and put the testing burden on the drug companies…which will produce drugs that are safer, faster, and cheaper. Then set some serious malpractice caps to lower the premiums for malpractice insurance. Those two things alone would make a huge difference to the cost of health care operation. When that cost comes down, so does the cost you and I pay, so does the amount we pay in premiums.

If you want it cheaper, make it more simple…not more complicated. Basic economic principals.

Yay!!! Let’s put the collection agencies out of business:thumbsup:

 

[sadie2723]

hucksters on every street corner with patent medicines?

Not exactly what I had in mind. Just put the responsibility of drug regulation on the drug companies. Let them do their own testing and remain liable for the outcomes. In doing so, you get all of the government regulation out of it which reduces the massive cost of getting drugs on the market. Less cost of production means less cost to you and I. It is, of course, very simple to identify a reputable drug company as compared to a guy on a street corner…please.

 

[gus]

I am a clinical manager in an acute care hospital. I can tell you federal law prohibits hospitals from withholding care from anyone regardless of their inability to pay. Hospitals write off millions of dollars each year for medical bills they are unable to collect from those who cannot afford it. Moreover, they have programs designed especially for those who are in poverty that will reduce or eliminate their medical bills. People are not going without healthcare at the level that those who want to push socialized medicine are saying they are. Ours isn’t perfect, but it’s the best. There is no such thing as free healthcare. The cost will be consumed by sacrificing quality for the sake of quantity.

And who pays for that care? The ever dwindling number of people who can afford medical insurance, and large US companies who find it harder to compete in world markets
Anyone who believes the system isn’t broken is kidding themselves.Everyone I talk to is not happy including Docters
Insuranance and Drug companies run health not healthcare professionals.
We need to fix this problem

 

[sadie2723]

And who pays for that care? The ever dwindling number of people who can afford medical insurance, and large US companies who find it harder to compete in world markets
Anyone who believes the system isn’t broken is kidding themselves.Everyone I talk to is not happy including Docters
Insuranance and Drug companies run health not healthcare professionals.
We need to fix this problem

Government is not the answer to the problem. Doing that just switches one bunch of power hungry people (companies) to another (politicians).

 

[emily47017]

two pretty interesting articles about medicare in the new york times yesterday:

Some Chronically Ill Adults Wait for Medicare

“It shows how unfair our system is,” said Louise Russell, a research professor at the Institute for Health at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, N.J. “These people were not getting care, and they were at least as in need of it as the people who were insured.”

The study also shows that it may be less expensive than expected to provide universal health insurance, Dr. Ayanian and his colleagues concluded. Medicare is bearing the brunt when uninsured people put off seeing doctors or seeking medical care until they turn 65.

Shift in Health-Cost Focus Is Said to Show Promise

By coordinating care and keeping their patients out of the hospital, doctors can help reduce overall health care spending, Medicare officials said yesterday in announcing the results of an experiment that allowed doctors to share in the cost savings.

…

Although Medicare and the doctors’ groups are still analyzing the information for the first year, many of the programs put in place seem to have resulted in fewer hospitalizations. Among its efforts, for example, Marshfield started a program in which eye exams for diabetes patients could be performed at a local doctors’ office rather than requiring a trip to a specialist. The clinic, which is based in Wisconsin, says it has reduced hospitalizations for its diabetes patients by about 13 percent in mid-2007 compared with 2004.

Other successful measures include simple follow-up. The University of Michigan group is having a nurse or nursing assistant call patients who have been discharged from the hospital or emergency room within 24 hours, making sure they understand the drugs they need to take or that, for example, a visiting nurse came as scheduled.

 

[mary_bobo]

And who pays for that care? The ever dwindling number of people who can afford medical insurance, and large US companies who find it harder to compete in world markets
Anyone who believes the system isn’t broken is kidding themselves.Everyone I talk to is not happy including Docters
Insuranance and Drug companies run health not healthcare professionals.
We need to fix this problem

Gus, with respect, everyone you talk to is not a significant number in the big picture. Are there problems with health care delivery in this country? Sure. And there are things that can be done to help those who truly cannot afford to take care of themselves. But to turn the system over to the federal government, the great organization that is sitting while Medicare and Social Security goes down the tubes, is not what I want and if you think about it, I bet it is not what you want either.

I suggest that doctors are not happy because of all of the paperwork involved and because of the litigious nature of our society. They are required to run tests that would not normally do, do procedures they would not usually do and many other things to CYA.

Medicare is a good thing, but as I have already mentioned, it is going broke. And our wonderful bureaucrats are so busy fighting one another in DC that they don’t give a darn. No one will touch that or SS because of the politics involved. Mean while, the gullible consuming constituents are much more interested in “American Idol” and “Desparate Housewives” than they are with things that really matter. Go figure.

 

[emily47017]

Let them do their own testing and remain liable for the outcomes.

but didn’t you also say “Then set some serious malpractice caps to lower the premiums for malpractice insurance”?

It is, of course, very simple to identify a reputable drug company as compared to a guy on a street corner…please.

how simple is it to identify a reputable drug company as compared to a disreputable one? especially if they’re only releasing the findings of internal trials that they want to release?

i’m not a big fan of the FDA in its current form, but i’m not so certain that returning to the wild wild west is a reasonable solution.

 

[emily47017]

Mean while, the gullible consuming constituents are much more interested in “American Idol” and “Desparate Housewives” than they are with things that really matter. Go figure.

you are SO right, and it’s SO depressing… here’s me crawling into bed and pulling the covers over my head…

 

[sadie2723]

but didn’t you also say “Then set some serious malpractice caps to lower the premiums for malpractice insurance”?

how simple is it to identify a reputable drug company as compared to a disreputable one? especially if they’re only releasing the findings of internal trials that they want to release?

i’m not a big fan of the FDA in its current form, but i’m not so certain that returning to the wild wild west is a reasonable solution.

Well, first off, malpractice does not apply to drug companies…that would be product liability, and you will note that I did not set limitations on that in my plan.

Further, this would not be the wild wild west. Bottom line is that if the drug company could be held accountable for their actions, you can bet they would take a fair amount of precaution.

 

[DaveBj]

A quote from the socialized medicine world: “Our medical care is free–and worth what we pay for it.”

We lived in England for 4 years, and we were very familiar with the stories of lengthy waits for routine procedures. It was during this time (late '80s) that the parallel private care system was really coming on line.

Speaking for myself, I chose a career in gov’t service in part because of the health insurance, which followed me into retirement. However, I also believe that one is entitled to all the medical care (and only the medical care) that he/she can pay for. If somewhere down the line I need a procedure that I can’t pay for–guess what–I won’t be getting it. I’m not that tied to this life anyway.

 

[Al_Masetti]

A caller in to a talk show today was discussing the long waits for various procedures in the UK, Canada, and France. I will see if I can find references or links.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I didn’t find what I was looking for, but found something quite interesting.

Canada’s Fraser Institute has published a report "Waiting Your Turn. Very interesting.

Visit this location:

onthefencefilms.com/blog/

Scroll down to the 30 May 07 entry into the blog and then click on the report.

The blog entry says there are 770,000 Canadians right now are on waiting lists for procedures. One woman with a brain tumor had her emergency surgery cancelled six times.

Check it out.

 

[emily47017]

factor in financial access measures with timeliness measures, and the US scores last among Canada, UK, Germany, Australia and New Zealand.

commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Davis_mirrormirrorinternationalpdate_1027.pdf?section=4039

 

[blessedtoo]

Here is the thing. I like private health care. I do. I think it rocks.** My premiums are fine, and I like the care that I get. I do not like government run stuff, and I do not like paying taxes for dead beats that decide that they want to suck off the system. **I think that this, combined with the negativity I have encountered with people living in socialized systems, makes me want to say no to it.

But isn’t it true that our premiums and co-pays are so high because we are indirectly picking up the cost of all the uninsured? Do I have that wrong?

 

[sadie2723]

But isn’t it true that our premiums and co-pays are so high because we are indirectly picking up the cost of all the uninsured? Do I have that wrong?

That is one of many reasons that our premiums are so high. Here are some others:

1. No limits on medical malpractice in most states.
2. The FDA and the 20-25 years of paper work that it takes to get a drug into production…who do you think pays for all the lawyers…that’s right…we do.
3. Medicare and Medicaid…yes, the entitlement programs cost you and me and we are not even on them yet. There is a fee schedule that only allows the Dr to charge so much for the disposable equipment that he uses. Many times this is LESS than what the Dr has to pay for it. Who do you think ends up picking up the difference…you and I do. This is another example of how WONDERFUL things work out when government gets involved.
4. Civil liability suits with no limits on Hospitals, medical equipment providers, drug companies, and everyone else in the health industry. When Lilly gets popped for 250,000,000 because some mother gave her child more than the recommended dosage of prozac and the kid dies, who ends up paying for that…you guessed it…you and I do.

All of these things translate into higher premiums for you and me.

Oh, and did I mention that Departments of Insurance in each and every state require that insurance companies write non-profitable paper for things like disability and workers compensation in order to do business in the state? These lines of business loose money consistently and require the insurance company to make up the profit in other areas…guess which one ends up being the cash cow…health…and to some extent property.

So, as you can see, if we get government under control and out of the system as much as we can, the price will drop. The end.

 

[Al_Masetti]

There is also a requirement from the various states that medical insurance companies MUST issue insurance to anyone requesting it. [There is a term to describe this phenomenon.]

So there is no need for some people to buy insurance until they actually need it.

Can you imagine if people didn’t need to buy fire insurance for their house until the house caught fire?

 

[emily47017]

some more info on how the “free” market interferes with our health care:

Market Forces Cited in Lymphoma Drugs’ Disuse

One reason is that cancer doctors, or oncologists, have financial incentives to use drugs other than Bexxar and Zevalin, which they are not paid to administer. In addition, using either drug usually requires oncologists to coordinate treatment with academic hospitals, whom the doctors may view as competitors.

As a result, many doctors prescribe Bexxar and Zevalin only as a last resort, when they are unlikely to succeed because the cancer has advanced.

“Oncologists use everything in their cupboard before they refer,” Dr. Press said. “At least half the patients who get referred to me have had at least 10 courses of treatment.”

N.Y. Attorney General Objects to Insurer’s Ranking of Doctors by Cost and Quality

In a telephone interview, Dr. Stephen G. Slocum, an ophthalmologist who is president of the St. Louis Metropolitan Medical Society, said the Missouri program was “absolutely terrible.”

He added: “It was dishonest. They were telling people that it was a quality metrics program when they were really just measuring cost.”

And, he said, his criticism was not just sour grapes. “I had a star next to my name; I was preferred,” he said. “But it didn’t mean anything.”

and a case where our “free” market system may actually be interfering with a *market driven *solution to high drug costs!

Pricing Pills by the Results

[T]he approach would probably be most feasible in countries, like Britain, where the government is the primary payer.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m not the first person to point out that if we have socialized medicine in this country, it will be run by a bureaucracy with all the efficiency of the Post Office, and all the compassion of the IRS.