Socialized Medicine

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Grat02 said:
I am a clinical manager in an acute care hospital. I can tell you federal law prohibits hospitals from withholding care from anyone regardless of their inability to pay. Hospitals write off millions of dollars each year for medical bills they are unable to collect from those who cannot afford it. Moreover, they have programs designed especially for those who are in poverty that will reduce or eliminate their medical bills. People are not going without healthcare at the level that those who want to push socialized medicine are saying they are. Ours isn’t perfect, but it’s the best. There is no such thing as free healthcare. The cost will be consumed by sacrificing quality for the sake of quantity.
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I have some questions for you. I have heard this (what you said) as well. I have also heard of people being denied health care in the ER, and them getting transported to a hospital further away who will treat the uninsured where they wouldn’t. Is it only required that certain hospitals treat the uninsured? Or are they doing something illegal possibly? What is the law on this?
 
sadie2723 said:
Not exactly what I had in mind. Just put the responsibility of drug regulation on the drug companies. Let them do their own testing and remain liable for the outcomes. In doing so, you get all of the government regulation out of it which reduces the massive cost of getting drugs on the market. Less cost of production means less cost to you and I. It is, of course, very simple to identify a reputable drug company as compared to a guy on a street corner…please.
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This isn’t a horrible idea, except that it seems like the drug companies would be awfully biased. Who overseas that they are being honest here?
 
mary_bobo said:
Gus, with respect, everyone you talk to is not a significant number in the big picture.
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I’m not Gus, but out of curiosity, how do you know this? Do you have a link to this statistic? Because, in my opinion, it could be a significant number of people in the big picture. It certainly is a significant number of people I, personally, encounter.
 
And, for that matter, let’s look at the European system of health care. Extreme long waiting periods with government deciding what drugs you get and what drugs you do not. I have a friend in England whose mother had cancer and was not responding to standard treatments. She DID respond to a new, very expensive, experimental drug which was reducing the size of her tumor greatly. The government decided that they would no longer pay for the drug, and due to the socialized system, would not allow her to pay for it privately. She died waiting for them to change their minds after nine months of appeals. This is what happens when you let government make your decisions for you concerning your personal health.

A friend of mine from England needs a hip replacement. I received this from him the other day in an e mail

“We are OK. I got 55 on the New Zealand pain score. You need 70 to get a hip replacement so I’ll settle for a steroid injection.”:mad:
 
My father lived in Canada for years and had great care…free. I have more hassles and less choice with my Health Plan here in the US than I ever did in Canada. In Canada I could choose any doctor in the city (no referrals) and usually get seen the same day (there was a 7 day a week clinic just block from where I lived).

As one commentator on Fox News pointed out in the US we pay more for health care than anywhere else and fail in most of the leading indicators (such as infant mortality, longevity and so on). While socializing medicene may not be the cure all it is beating the pants off of us.

Rev North
 
boppaid said:
I’m not Gus, but out of curiosity, how do you know this? Do you have a link to this statistic? Because, in my opinion, it could be a significant number of people in the big picture. It certainly is a significant number of people I, personally, encounter.
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And that is what I was pointing out. All the people Gus talks to, all the people you talk to…could it just be that you both are only discussing the issue with like-minded people? It may very well be many people who feel this way, but generalization is not usually the way to bring a discussion forward. 😉
 
boppaid said:
I have some questions for you. I have heard this (what you said) as well. I have also heard of people being denied health care in the ER, and them getting transported to a hospital further away who will treat the uninsured where they wouldn’t. Is it only required that certain hospitals treat the uninsured? Or are they doing something illegal possibly? What is the law on this?
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Actually, laws and regulations require the ED only to triage, or assess the patient to determine the patient’s stability. If the patient is unstable per their assessment, the ED is required to provide care. If the ED assesses that the patient’s condition does not require emergency medical care they may refer them to another facility. However, most EDs assess and treat regardless of triage level out of fear of possible retribution if something negative were to occur due not being treated.
 
RevDrNorth said:
My father lived in Canada for years and had great care…free. I have more hassles and less choice with my Health Plan here in the US than I ever did in Canada. In Canada I could choose any doctor in the city (no referrals) and usually get seen the same day (there was a 7 day a week clinic just block from where I lived).

As one commentator on Fox News pointed out in the US we pay more for health care than anywhere else and fail in most of the leading indicators (such as infant mortality, longevity and so on). While socializing medicene may not be the cure all it is beating the pants off of us.

Rev North
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Interesting perspective. Could it just be that we pay more for health care in this country because of contingency law suits. To avoid law suits, more tests than needed are ordered, stuff like that. It is my impression that there are no contingency law suits in Canada. Am I wrong? I have not yet been convinced that anything is free, especially health care. Just because you don’t write a check at the point of receipt does not mean it is free, right?
 
mary_bobo said:
Interesting perspective. Could it just be that we pay more for health care in this country because of contingency law suits. To avoid law suits, more tests than needed are ordered, stuff like that. It is my impression that there are no contingency law suits in Canada. Am I wrong? I have not yet been convinced that anything is free, especially health care. Just because you don’t write a check at the point of receipt does not mean it is free, right?
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Lawsuits are a major part of the problem:
  1. You can file suit in the US with no evidence at all. In most European countries you have to show that you have a case before the suit is accepted.
  2. Lawyers know to the penny what it costs to fight a lawsuit – they will often file meritless suits, then offer to settle for less than it would cost to fight them, a guarenteed source of income for a lawyer.
  3. Class action lawsuits are goldmines – look at all the ads on TV, “Were you or a loved one diagnosed with whatchamacallit disease? Call the law offices of Fleecem & Howe.” The lawyers get a huge settlement – and they take a third or a half, and then eat up the rest billing their “clients” for “expenses”
  4. We have no limits on intangibles, like pain and suffering – so huge judgements are often handed down by juries.
  5. We unabashedly operate on the “deep pockets” theory. Were you injured? Was there someone standing nearby who has money (or insurance). Well, he has to pay – whether he’s guilty or not.
  6. We accept all sorts of junk science and bad statistics as “evidence.”
  7. We have no way of holding lawyers responsible for their actions – the English rule would have a lawyer and his client held accountable if their suit was deemed to be junk.
 
Some lawyers have even claimed to have “channeled” dead babies.

And the jury bought it.
 
mary_bobo said:
And that is what I was pointing out. All the people Gus talks to, all the people you talk to…could it just be that you both are only discussing the issue with like-minded people? It may very well be many people who feel this way, but generalization is not usually the way to bring a discussion forward. 😉
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You’ve got a point. however, you seemed quite sure that the people he talked to were NOT a significant part of the population. I’m wondering if you could provide the source where you got that information? Or is it an opinion?
 
Grat02 said:
Actually, laws and regulations require the ED only to triage, or assess the patient to determine the patient’s stability. If the patient is unstable per their assessment, the ED is required to provide care. If the ED assesses that the patient’s condition does not require emergency medical care they may refer them to another facility. However, most EDs assess and treat regardless of triage level out of fear of possible retribution if something negative were to occur due not being treated.
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Thank you! I always wondered that.
 
RevDrNorth said:
My father lived in Canada for years and had great care…free. I have more hassles and less choice with my Health Plan here in the US than I ever did in Canada. In Canada I could choose any doctor in the city (no referrals) and usually get seen the same day (there was a 7 day a week clinic just block from where I lived).

As one commentator on Fox News pointed out in the US we pay more for health care than anywhere else and fail in most of the leading indicators (such as infant mortality, longevity and so on). While socializing medicene may not be the cure all it is beating the pants off of us.
Rev North
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But your experience in Canada is not everyone’s experience. My father, an American citizen, living in the US, had eye surgery at the Wilmer Eye Institute. While there, he met a man that was paying for his eye surgery out of his own pocket. This man was from Canada. He was on the wait list for surgery, in Canada, but would be blind before it happened. What is worse is that he was blind in the other eye, because of a long wait list. Being blind in one eye did not move this man to the front of the list.🤷

We spoke to him and his family. They were so upset with the Canadian system and the wait times that they wanted to move to the US and get private insurance. There was no option for private insurance in Canada.

With my health plan, I can choose any doctor. I can go to a clinic that is open 7 days a week for urgent care, if I want. I can go to a specialist without seeing my regular doctor or asking his permission. I never need a referral.

My health care is in my hands. Not in the government. I once heard someone say “Public Health, just like Public Housing.” Public housing is not normally something someone would choose. It is a last resort, why would we want Public Health?
 
boppaid said:
You’ve got a point. however, you seemed quite sure that the people he talked to were NOT a significant part of the population. I’m wondering if you could provide the source where you got that information? Or is it an opinion?
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It is my opinion just as his statement was his opinion. If you can show me that most people believe this, I will graciously apologize.
 
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