Socratic Method: Good Way to Find Truth?

[Socrates4Jesus]

It’s usually a product of severe depression or paranoia – one symptom of which is asking questions like this.

Then you must be saying Jesus suffered from mental illness!

Please tell me why you believe this.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Then you must be saying Jesus suffered from mental illness!

Please tell me why you believe this.

So you say Jesus committed suicide, eh?

Which gospel are you citing for that conclusion?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
What is suicide, VH, and what makes it a sin?

It’s usually a product of severe depression or paranoia – one symptom of which is asking questions like this.

Perhaps we should back up a moment. I suggested that Socrates and Jesus were murdered for similar reasons. You said that they were not similar because Jesus suffered a horrifying death on the cross but Socrates committed suicide by drinking poison. So i asked you what is suicide. Your answer (quoted above) is not an answer to my question. You see, you explained what causes a person to commit suicide, but you have not defined exactly what suicide is. If we can determine exactly what suicide is, then we can determine whether or not Socrates committed suicide, and, as you implied, committed a mortal sin by his death.

Please tell me, VH, how you would define suicide. Is it something a person does willingly, or against his will?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Perhaps we should back up a moment. I suggested that Socrates and Jesus were murdered for similar reasons.

Socrates came to earth in fulfilment of the Covenent between God and Man? Socrates established a Church?

You said that they were not similar because Jesus suffered a horrifying death on the cross but Socrates committed suicide by drinking poison.

They were not similar – neither in their acts nor their deaths.

So i asked you what is suicide. Your answer (quoted above) is not an answer to my question.

Pardon me – I assumed that as a college student, you had access to a dictionary.

Go here: dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide

You see, you explained what causes a person to commit suicide, but you have not defined exactly what suicide is. If we can determine exactly what suicide is, then we can determine whether or not Socrates committed suicide, and, as you implied, committed a mortal sin by his death.

Again, I assumed you had access to a dictionary and that your question was deeper than the mere definition of the word.

Please tell me, VH, how you would define suicide. Is it something a person does willingly, or against his will?

What does the dictionary say?

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

If we can determine exactly what suicide is, then we can determine whether or not Socrates committed suicide, and, as you implied, committed a mortal sin by his death.

Please tell me, VH, how you would define suicide. Is it something a person does willingly, or against his will?

Socrates died by his own hand, since he physically raised the cup of hemlock to his lips. Maybe Jesus’ prayer at Gethsemane was answered after all.
However he was legally required to do this. A morally perfect individual would have insisted on the authorities taking the action themselves, However this is a million miles from the sin of despair. Socrates didn’t throw his life away because it had become worthless, but for reasons we don’t know but were understandable, co-operated with the authorities in the evil act of ending it.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Socrates died by his own hand, since he physically raised the cup of hemlock to his lips. Maybe Jesus’ prayer at Gethsemane was answered after all.
However he was legally required to do this. A morally perfect individual would have insisted on the authorities taking the action themselves, However this is a million miles from the sin of despair. Socrates didn’t throw his life away because it had become worthless, but for reasons we don’t know but were understandable, co-operated with the authorities in the evil act of ending it.

Funny, MM, that you should say that Socrates, who was sentenced to death by a democratic vote in Athens willingly raised the cup to his lips, but Jesus did not. Did not Jesus pray this?

“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”(Mark 14:36)Either way, they both chose the lesser evil of drinking the cup of physical death to achieve a greater good (Socrates to show us that the truth is that for which it is worth dying, and Jesus to show us He was the truth who would die for us).

To accuse Socrates of suicide because he willingly chose to die for the truth is to accuse Jesus of suicide for willingly choosing to die for you and me and VM. Jesus said:

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."(Mark 10:45)

and"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.(John 10:11)

and"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."(John 15:13)Socrates, as well, laid down his life for whom he called the one true God, for the truth, and for the love of those who followed him. His death was not a ransom for your sins or mine, but it did provoke many Greeks and Romans to consider that there was one God above all the pagan gods who was the source of all truth and virtue. Some would say he paved the way for the gospel to the gentiles the way John the Baptist paved the way for the gospel to the Jewish people.