Sodom and Gomorah, God and His Christ

[thistle]

Jesus never laughed.

That’s a pretty stupid assumption!! You mean we all love and worship a miserable God!

 

[Clovis]

That’s a pretty stupid assumption!! You mean we all love and worship a miserable God!

Well, the Almighty God sitting before the throne with the 24 judges and so on. I don’t have the slightest doubt in the world he understands humor brilliantly, I do think he is better at applying humor far less depraved as fasioned in pop culture: What I am saying is that the character referred to at the opening of the Gospel of John, The Light of Men and so on and so forth, no I do not believe he is readily effect by the defect to us known as humor.

 

[Clovis]

The word “exaggeration” applies very well to when Jesus said “cut off your hand” or “remove the plank from your eye”. It has its applications without the use of sarcasm or humor.

BTW, you don’t think Jesus had a sense of humor or ever used humor in his words?

I personally believe with that pluck out your eye and cut of your hand stuff, he was being deadly serious. Jesus rarely mentioned hell eternal, what he did mention much was tribulation, or sorrows, or sometimes translated ‘the birth pains’. It is almost as what he was saying meant that we need to be re-born by giving birth to ourselves again through tribulation and repentance. I also have not the slightest belief in ‘rapture’ spoken of much in my parts by all the southern Baptists. I take his words seriously, that is why I have no respect for myself, it is also why one of the few things I prize about myself is my common sense. I am scared to death when I read what he has said, it makes me completely unwilling to judge anyone and simply wish the best for everybody, out of fear of the destroyer placing me in their shoes just as Christ said, 'It will be measured back to you."

 

[H_Opey]

Clovis,
You are right on that you should not judge ones soul as that is left up to God and God alone. When we see others sinning we have the obligation to correct them in charity and to pray for them. This is no easy task. But most of all, the fear of God should be we love Him soo much there is nothing we would want to do to offend Him.

I would like to propose something about “laughing” and whether God or Jesus had a sense of humor.
Joy. The joy that is felt and experienced after you come out of reconciliation/after you receive Holy Communion…
The type of joy when you want to dance sing and laugh because God is all good.

 

[NotWorthy]

I personally believe with that pluck out your eye and cut of your hand stuff, he was being deadly serious.

*He was serious in revealing how deadly sin is with you. But he wasn’t trying to promote self-mutilation.

He was using a technique called, “exaggeration”.

Jesus rarely mentioned hell eternal, what he did mention much was tribulation, or sorrows, or sometimes translated ‘the birth pains’.

*Jesus spent more time talking about hell then He did about Heaven. How many times did you read about “eternal fire” and “gnashing of teeth”? You lost me on this one.

It is almost as what he was saying meant that we need to be re-born by giving birth to ourselves again through tribulation and repentance.

OK, but how does that relate to the point?

I also have not the slightest belief in ‘rapture’ spoken of much in my parts by all the southern Baptists.

OK???

I take his words seriously, that is why I have no respect for myself, it is also why one of the few things I prize about myself is my common sense. I am scared to death when I read what he has said, it makes me completely unwilling to judge anyone and simply wish the best for everybody

, out of fear of the destroyer placing me in their shoes just as Christ said, 'It will be measured back to you."Then you’re going to have to explain this remark you made to Thistle yesterday:

**You’re a jerk! **

 

[Clovis]

Clovis,
You are right on that you should not judge ones soul as that is left up to God and God alone. When we see others sinning we have the obligation to correct them in charity and to pray for them. This is no easy task. But most of all, the fear of God should be we love Him soo much there is nothing we would want to do to offend Him.

I would like to propose something about “laughing” and whether God or Jesus had a sense of humor.
Joy. The joy that is felt and experienced after you come out of reconciliation/after you receive Holy Communion…
The type of joy when you want to dance sing and laugh because God is all good.

Exactly! The way a child laughs is different than a person slipping on a banana pill, or all the clever humiliations of people on the American sitcoms like ‘Rosanne’, ‘Seinfeld’, and ‘Two and a Half Men’. What has happened in adulthood? Why do we find clever put-downs funny? Joy and Happiness also can be abundant without laughter, or with it, hopefully purer though.

 

[guanophore]

Are you sure that Christ wasn’t using exaggeration to show the Pharisee’s obstinacy? I mean, the Pharisees weren’t asking to send out anyone for a little sodomy.

Sodomy was not the main sin of Sodom. History has perverted this passage. Pride and inhospitality (which was a death sentence in the desert) were much more serious. the Sodomy is only a reflection of the deeper rebellion in the heart.

Ezek 16:48-50
49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

How many now continue to have pride, surfeit, and fail to aid the poor, but think somehow that the act of sodomy is worse than other sins?

How is sodomy worse than what happened to this woman:

Judg 19:16-30

16 And behold, an old man was coming from his work in the field at evening; the man was from the hill country of E’phraim, and he was sojourning in Gib’e-ah; the men of the place were Benjaminites. 17 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the wayfarer in the open square of the city; and the old man said, “Where are you going? and whence do you come?” 18 And he said to him, “We are passing from Bethlehem in Judah to the remote parts of the hill country of E’phraim, from which I come. I went to Bethlehem in Judah; and I am going to my home; and nobody takes me into his house. 19 We have straw and provender for our asses, with bread and wine for me and your maidservant and the young man with your servants; there is no lack of anything.” 20 And the old man said, “Peace be to you; I will care for all your wants; only, do not spend the night in the square.” 21 So he brought him into his house, and gave the asses provender; and they washed their feet, and ate and drank.

22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, base fellows, beset the house round about, beating on the door; and they said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him.” 23 And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, “No, my brethren, do not act so wickedly; seeing that this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing. 24 Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing.” 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them; and they knew her, and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. 26 And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her master was, till it was light.

27 And her master rose up in the morning, and when he opened the doors of the house and went out to go on his way, behold, there was his concubine lying at the door of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up, let us be going.” But there was no answer. Then he put her upon the ***; and the man rose up and went away to his home. 29 And when he entered his house, he took a knife, and laying hold of his concubine he divided her, limb by limb, into twelve pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of Israel. 30 And all who saw it said, “Such a thing has never happened or been seen from the day that the people of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt until this day; consider it, take counsel, and speak.”

 

[H_Opey]

Clovis, I believe that the lat Pope John Paul II wrote about the new martyrdom is the crass sarcasam of today.
BUT you can correct someone with gentle humor.
It is also good to be able to laugh at yourself.

There is a difference.

 

[Clovis]

NotWorthy, “Jesus spent more time talking about hell then He did about Heaven. How many times did you read about “eternal fire” and “gnashing of teeth”? You lost me on this one.”

You speak nonentity! Read Revelations, ‘gnawing tongues from pain’, 'weeping and gnashing of teeth, ‘grievous sores’, it refers to the not repenting of those with the mark of the beast and their anger at God and not wanting to repent. My guess is that they will end up giving up on themselves before God gives up on them, and If they do refuse once the most absolute of truths is known to them, then they will die.

 

[H_Opey]

Sodomy was not the main sin of Sodom. History has perverted this passage. Pride and inhospitality (which was a death sentence in the desert) were much more serious. the Sodomy is only a reflection of the deeper rebellion in the heart.

Were there other sins they were committing? I am sure.
But I would be careful because this argument is used to dumb down the sinfulness of the homosexual acts. That is unnatural and not right. It destroys many things.

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy, “Jesus spent more time talking about hell then He did about Heaven. How many times did you read about “eternal fire” and “gnashing of teeth”? You lost me on this one.”

You speak nonentity! Read Revelations, ‘gnawing tongues from pain’, 'weeping and gnashing of teeth, ‘grievous sores’, it refers to the not repenting of those with the mark of the beast and their anger at God and not wanting to repent. My guess is that they will end up giving up on themselves before God gives up on them, and If they do refuse once the most absolute of truths is known to them, then they will die.

I was referring to Jesus’ sermons in the Gospels. Not to His revelations to John.

In the Gospels, Jesus spends far more time talking about suffering in the fire that is not quenched than about Heaven.

 

[NotWorthy]

Sodomy was not the main sin of Sodom. History has perverted this passage. Pride and inhospitality (which was a death sentence in the desert) were much more serious. the Sodomy is only a reflection of the deeper rebellion in the heart.

So, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were inhospitable?

 

[Clovis]

guanophore;2444368:

.

Were there other sins they were committing?

Yes ! ! ! Member when God’s angels went to the city and Lotte tried to offer the men outside the door virgins instead of his guests, the angels. I’m telling you, in that cities, it was like it was with Roman Emperors and all their decadence. They probably were involved in binge-eating and purging like the gluttonous nobility of Rome, and maybe pedophilia: It is an unfortunate thing God didn’t have prophets back than, are they might have repented in sackcloth, as Christ said.

 

[Clovis]

I was referring to Jesus’ sermons in the Gospels. Not to His revelations to John.

In the Gospels, Jesus spends far more time talking about suffering in the fire that is not quenched than about Heaven.

Yes, and when he was talking of fire, he was talking of Revelation!

 

[thistle]

To Clovis:

Quote:
I take his words seriously, that is why I have no respect for myself, it is also why one of the few things I prize about myself is my common sense. I am scared to death when I read what he has said, it makes me completely unwilling to judge anyone and simply wish the best for everybody, out of fear of the destroyer placing me in their shoes just as Christ said, 'It will be measured back to you."
Unquote

Actually it wasn’t me but catholicman you called a jerk but I’m curious to see how this squares with your statement above!!

 

[Clovis]

To Clovis:

Quote:
I take his words seriously, that is why I have no respect for myself, it is also why one of the few things I prize about myself is my common sense. I am scared to death when I read what he has said, it makes me completely unwilling to judge anyone and simply wish the best for everybody, out of fear of the destroyer placing me in their shoes just as Christ said, 'It will be measured back to you."
Unquote

Actually it wasn’t me but catholicman you called a jerk but I’m curious to see how this squares with your statement above!!

Calling someone a jerk isn’t by any means judging them. If someone says something that is mean, it is perfectly logical to call them a jerk. Just as if someone offers you a ride to work because your car is in the shop, it is perfectly logical to call them kind. I don’t know why saying he was a jerk is offensive as at that moment catholicman was being a jerk. I guess I should have said more distinctly that he was simply being a jerk.

 

[guanophore]

So, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because they were inhospitable?

Ezek 16:48-50
49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it.

I think it is difficult for anyone in modern America to understand the Oriental mindset about hospitality. You can get a glimpse if you read how Abraham greeted the angels that came. He RAN to meet their needs. To the opposite, the people of Sodom not only did not try to meet the needs of the angels, but wanted to take advantage of them. Rape is only one of the fruits of this attitude.

I am not minimizing the homosexual sin, I am just saying that it was only one of the bad fruits that developed from a more grievious root.

 

[NotWorthy]

Ezek 16:48-50
49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it.

I think it is difficult for anyone in modern America to understand the Oriental mindset about hospitality. You can get a glimpse if you read how Abraham greeted the angels that came. He RAN to meet their needs. To the opposite, the people of Sodom not only did not try to meet the needs of the angels, but wanted to take advantage of them. Rape is only one of the fruits of this attitude.

I am not minimizing the homosexual sin, I am just saying that it was only one of the bad fruits that developed from a more grievious root.

Yes, I do understand that there was more to Sodom than sodomy. But in an unsuccessful attempt to keep the topic brief, I simply used one of the numerous abominations of the Sodomites to illustrate the point that Jesus was using “exaggeration” to prove His point.

No sarcasm. No humor. Simple exaggeration (BTW, what IS the literary term for that?).

 

[Clovis]

I look at homosexuality this way. It is more that I feel sorry for homosexuals then anything else. I also think it is a particular of the brain in combination with psychological development that makes a person as such. Carl Jung theorized that we all have to some extent a homosexual link, as the fact remains some men simply look effeminate (having female characteristics). I have never been attracted to a hansom man, but hansom women like Famke Janssen and Angie Everhart make my cold heart go thump thump. Carl Jung also theorized that we have an innate attractive specification that makes us deeply desirous over a certain type of the opposite sex which makes the barring of monotony difficult. I remember Christ saying that once we conquer the world we will be neither male nor female but as the angels in heaven. I look forward to this day because all that sexuality brings anyone is crablouse and broken hearts.

 

[NotWorthy]

Calling someone a jerk isn’t by any means judging them. If someone says something that is mean, it is perfectly logical to call them a jerk. Just as if someone offers you a ride to work because your car is in the shop, it is perfectly logical to call them kind. I don’t know why saying he was a jerk is offensive as at that moment catholicman was being a jerk. I guess I should have said more distinctly that he was simply being a jerk.

Not THAT is humor!!!