Sodom and Gomorah, God and His Christ

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Clovis said:
H Opey;2444398:
Yes ! ! !
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Member when God’s angels went to the city and Lotte tried to offer the men outside the door virgins instead of his guests, the angels. I’m telling you, in that cities, it was like it was with Roman Emperors and all their decadence. They probably were involved in binge-eating and purging like the gluttonous nobility of Rome, and maybe pedophilia: It is an unfortunate thing God didn’t have prophets back than, are they might have repented in sackcloth, as Christ said.

Clovis, these events pre-dated the roman empire by many centuries. There sins sprang from another source. they were barbarians
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Clovis said:
Yes, and when he was talking of fire, he was talking of Revelation!
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Jesus was explaining something to a crowd of Jews referencing a book that wouldn’t be written for another 45-65 years??

That’s interesting…
 
Clovis said:
Calling someone a jerk isn’t by any means judging them. If someone says something that is mean, it is perfectly logical to call them a jerk. Just as if someone offers you a ride to work because your car is in the shop, it is perfectly logical to call them kind. I don’t know why saying he was a jerk is offensive as at that moment catholicman was being a jerk. I guess I should have said more distinctly that he was simply being a jerk.
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What a hypocrite you are. Calling someone a jerk is offensive or didn’t you learn that in the “nuthouse” you say you spent a long time in.
You owe catholicman an apology!
 
NotWorthy said:
Jesus was explaining something to a crowd of Jews referencing a book that wouldn’t be written for another 45-65 years??

That’s interesting…
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Are you trying to tell me their isn’t any spirituality and symbolism and prophecy in Christ’s words, because it would be quite difficult to make since of any of it without such?
 
I am sorry catholic man that you were being narrow minded, and I am sorry for you whomever you are that threw up my past history in order to beat me with it like a stick.
 
Clovis said:
Calling someone a jerk isn’t by any means judging them. If someone says something that is mean, it is perfectly logical to call them a jerk. Just as if someone offers you a ride to work because your car is in the shop, it is perfectly logical to call them kind. I don’t know why saying he was a jerk is offensive as at that moment catholicman was being a jerk. I guess I should have said more distinctly that he was simply being a jerk.
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Clovis, this is incorrect and unchristian thinking. Calling names to people is not charitable. If you want to describe a behavior, and find objection to it, then by allmeans do so, but judging a persons being is not our purview. We are not called to be “logical” but to be charitable. We are called to put off the ways of the flesh, and live by the Spirit. What you are espousing here is a worldly attitude.

Eph 4:29-32
29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice, 32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

Jesus did not call those who were crucifying him “jerks” (clearly, it was much worse than that!) he forgave them, because they did not know what they were doing. Obviously, if someone has been mean to you, then they did not know what they were doing!
 
NotWorthy said:
Yes, I do understand that there was more to Sodom than sodomy. But in an unsuccessful attempt to keep the topic brief, I simply used one of the numerous abominations of the Sodomites to illustrate the point that Jesus was using “exaggeration” to prove His point.

No sarcasm. No humor. Simple exaggeration (BTW, what IS the literary term for that?).
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I was going to mention that before, since I don’t think exaggeration quite captures it. I think hyperbole is better. I got your point, it is just a pet peeve of mine that people point the finger over that particular issue, while ignoring the passage in Ezek.
 
guanophore said:
Clovis, this is incorrect and unchristian thinking. Calling names to people is not charitable. If you want to describe a behavior, and find objection to it, then by allmeans do so, but judging a persons being is not our purview. We are not called to be “logical” but to be charitable. We are called to put off the ways of the flesh, and live by the Spirit. What you are espousing here is a worldly attitude.

Eph 4:29-32
29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice, 32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

Jesus did not call those who were crucifying him “jerks” (clearly, it was much worse than that!) he forgave them, because they did not know what they were doing. Obviously, if someone has been mean to you, then they did not know what they were doing!
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So what should I say if someone is being cruel to me, “You are so nice!” The important thing is that I didn’t even in the slightest but attempt a stiff rebuttal. I simply put two and two together an said he was being mean. I suppose I should have simply said mean, but that is what the word jerk applies, sorry if it is uncouth, but it is in the Merriam-Webster.
 
Back to the topic and hand, was Christ serious when he said that Sodom would have repented had they seen what they’d seen were he preached?
 
Clovis said:
I am sorry catholic man that you were being narrow minded, and I am sorry for you whomever you are that threw up my past history in order to beat me with it like a stick.
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That would be me. I was just struck by your pomposity today, when just yesterday you were quick to call someone a jerk. I was originally struck by your willingness to accuse me of calling John the Divine a liar.

I was curious if this was the same person, especially since I did not think Catholicman was being a jerk. But hey, it was just me.
 
guanophore said:
I was going to mention that before, since I don’t think exaggeration quite captures it. I think hyperbole is better. I got your point, it is just a pet peeve of mine that people point the finger over that particular issue, while ignoring the passage in Ezek.
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Hyperbole!!! You got it!

Thanks!
 
Clovis said:
Back to the topic and hand, was Christ serious when he said that Sodom would have repented had they seen what they’d seen were he preached?
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If Christ said it, well of course I believe it!
 
Clovis said:
So what should I say if someone is being cruel to me, “You are so nice!” The important thing is that I didn’t even in the slightest but attempt a stiff rebuttal. I simply put two and two together an said he was being mean. I suppose I should have simply said mean, but that is what the word jerk applies, sorry if it is uncouth, but it is in the Merriam-Webster.
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This is off topic, but since it is relevant to the forum rules, it is worth addressing. All are expected to post in charity. Having been recently called a “jerk” by another poster, I can relate to this situation. If someone is mean, it is not necessary to pretend they have been “nice”. State the offense, as the scripture directs. Tell what offended you, and why, and ask the poster for what you want instead.

Our actions on this board are not governed by Merriam-Webster, but by the Forum Rules, and those of us that claim to be Christian, by the teachings of Christ. Jesus taught us to pray for those who insult us, and to turn the other cheek. That does not mean you can’t speak up, but it is necessary to respond with charity, and not more rudeness. I must have missed the post. In what way was your past thrown against you?
 
Back to the lesson of Sodom and Gomorah;

I am sure that pride was the start of their fall.
We should be careful to not confine the meaning and lesson of this story to just inhospitable acts.
Because of this:
in our worldly definition of hospitality, it could convey the message that I am OK in my sin (whether it is homosexual acts, adultery or abortion) as long as I accept and welcome people.
Hogwash.
WE as catholics are charged with more and will be judged harsher. WE have to in charity bring Christ to others which means correcting also.
 
Clovis said:
Are you trying to tell me their isn’t any spirituality and symbolism and prophecy in Christ’s words, because it would be quite difficult to make since of any of it without such?
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No, it just seems that the words of Jesus should stand alone. The words of Jesus should be able to stand alone. The words of Paul and the rest of the Apostles may add further to the words of Jesus, but they should stand alone.

In your reasoning, the words of Jesus do not mean anything until Revelation was written some 35+ years later.
 
NotWorthy said:
No, it just seems that the words of Jesus should stand alone. The words of Jesus should be able to stand alone. The words of Paul and the rest of the Apostles may add further to the words of Jesus, but they should stand alone.

In your reasoning, the words of Jesus do not mean anything until Revelation was written some 35+ years later.
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Your words are Your words; My words are My words: What you said I said is simply What you said I said, nothing more.
 
NotWorthy said:
Are you sure that Christ wasn’t using exaggeration to show the Pharisee’s obstinacy? I mean, the Pharisees weren’t asking to send out anyone for a little sodomy.
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A reading of Matthew 23 shows that the Pharisees were indeed guilty of great things. Greater than any sexual deviancy. I think that Jesus was being very direct and blunt when he said that those who flatly rejected God’s word would end up worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah.

Our society has made crimes of sexual deviancy to be the worst of all possible crimes. (I sometimes wonder why murderers, theives, arsonists, don’t have to “register” after they have been released but sexual deviants do.) I think God does not see things the same way. Otherwise the first commandment would have been, “You shall not be a sodomizer” rather than “you shall love the Lord your God will all you heart, mind and strength.”

I do think Jesus was very capable of laughter. Anyone willing to greet little children has to have a sense of humor.

Jim
 
NotWorthy said:
Jesus spent more time talking about hell then He did about Heaven. How many times did you read about “eternal fire” and “gnashing of teeth”? You lost me on this one.

:
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This is perhaps a little off topic but I had to respond to that one.

I haven’t counted specific references but I know that Jesus’s primary purpose was to teach about God’s kingdom. Not about hell. He starts many parables with “The reign of God could be likened to…” and his instructions to his disciples included telling people “The reign of God is at hand” but those instructions had no particular mention of hell.

Avoiding condemnation is part of the pursuit of God’s kingdom, but not the primary focus.

Jim
 
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