M
mbgumby28
Guest
Where do Protestants get the idea of “Faith Alone”? From what I know they claim to get it from the Bible, yet the Bible seems to be horribly against “Sola Fide”.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
DLClark
Guest
We get the idea of faith alone because that is what the Bible teaches. Nothing is to be added to faith for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith and not of works, Eph. 2:8-9. This is why faith stands alone as all that is needed for salvation.
T
Toribus
Guest
From Jean Cauvin (John Calvin) and Martin Luther.
K
kimbaichan
Guest
from a former protestant: by grace are you saved through faith not of works, lest any man should boast, not of yourself, it is the gift of God. That’s it as far as I know.
M
mbgumby28
Guest
But in one verse later we are told that we are created to live in good works.We get the idea of faith alone because that is what the Bible teaches. Nothing is to be added to faith for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith and not of works, Eph. 2:8-9. This is why faith stands alone as all that is needed for salvation.
Let me ask you this: Do you believe that if a person has faith but doesn’t do a single good work in his life, then he will get to heaven?
D
DLClark
Guest
Yes after salvation good works come into play. Don’t place verse 10 before it comes in the oder of the passage. Verse 1-9 tells us how we were saved, and verse 10 tells us why we were saved. We were saved unto good works.But in one verse later we are told that we are created to live in good works.
Let me ask you this: Do you believe that if a person has faith but doesn’t do a single good work in his life, then he will get to heaven?
T
Toribus
Guest
DLClark, asking in the spirit of respectful discourse, how do we know that the Protestant interpretation is the true meaning of the holy text?
After all, it is contrary to the interpretation believed always, everywhere, and by everyone for the first fifteen centuries of the Faith.
After all, it is contrary to the interpretation believed always, everywhere, and by everyone for the first fifteen centuries of the Faith.
M
mbgumby28
Guest
So are you saying that of a man has faith and doesn’t do a single good work in his life, he will be saved?Yes after salvation good works come into play. Don’t place verse 10 before it comes in the oder of the passage. Verse 1-9 tells us how we were saved, and verse 10 tells us why we were saved. We were saved unto good works.
S
SacredHeart1987
Guest
Sola Fide is a lie.
R
Ruthie
Guest
Keep in mind that there are many different interpretations of “sola fide,” and one of them is pretty much the same as our Catholic view.
The NCCs (Non-Catholic Christians) who actually believe that they can sin with impunity after being “saved” are very rare. They are usually misinterpreting their church’s teaching; I don’t know of any sects that actually teach that.
More believe that, if one sins after being saved, one was never really saved in the first place. I think that’s pretty common among non-“mainline” NCCs.
The others believe as we do, that one can turn one’s back on God through sin, but can turn back to God, too. (I.e. that salvation is an on-going process.) It is in the “how” of turning back to God that we differ.
One of the biggest gulfs between us and the NCCs is a gulf of words. We define different concepts in different ways. We then misinterpret each others’ phrases. Then some of us get angry about it, instead of looking for common ground.
Heart of Jesus, wherein are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.
Ruthie
The NCCs (Non-Catholic Christians) who actually believe that they can sin with impunity after being “saved” are very rare. They are usually misinterpreting their church’s teaching; I don’t know of any sects that actually teach that.
More believe that, if one sins after being saved, one was never really saved in the first place. I think that’s pretty common among non-“mainline” NCCs.
The others believe as we do, that one can turn one’s back on God through sin, but can turn back to God, too. (I.e. that salvation is an on-going process.) It is in the “how” of turning back to God that we differ.
One of the biggest gulfs between us and the NCCs is a gulf of words. We define different concepts in different ways. We then misinterpret each others’ phrases. Then some of us get angry about it, instead of looking for common ground.
Heart of Jesus, wherein are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.
Ruthie
W
WMM
Guest
***So you have no need of baptism if you have faith?We get the idea of faith alone because that is what the Bible teaches. Nothing is to be added to faith for salvation. We are saved by grace through faith and not of works, Eph. 2:8-9. This is why faith stands alone as all that is needed for salvation.
Why, then, did Jesus instruct his Apostles to “Go forth and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”***
I
IowaJay
Guest
Thank you for this post - you’ve identified the key problemKeep in mind that there are many different interpretations of “sola fide,” and one of them is pretty much the same as our Catholic view.
The NCCs (Non-Catholic Christians) who actually believe that they can sin with impunity after being “saved” are very rare. They are usually misinterpreting their church’s teaching; I don’t know of any sects that actually teach that.
More believe that, if one sins after being saved, one was never really saved in the first place. I think that’s pretty common among non-“mainline” NCCs.
The others believe as we do, that one can turn one’s back on God through sin, but can turn back to God, too. (I.e. that salvation is an on-going process.) It is in the “how” of turning back to God that we differ.
One of the biggest gulfs between us and the NCCs is a gulf of words. We define different concepts in different ways. We then misinterpret each others’ phrases. Then some of us get angry about it, instead of looking for common ground.
Heart of Jesus, wherein are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.
Ruthie
Catholic scholar Peter Kreeft wrote an excellent article which shows that the rhetoric on both sides is misplaced due to different uses of the word “faith.”
catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0027.html
Here’s the key paragraph from the article:
“The word faith was also used in two different senses. Luther used it in the broad sense of the person’s acceptance of God’s offer of salvation. It included repentance, faith, hope, and charity. This is the sense Saint Paul uses in Romans. But in 1 Corinthians 13, Paul uses it in a more specific sense, as just one of the three theological virtues, with hope and charity added to it. In this narrower sense faith alone is not sufficient for salvation, for hope and charity must be present also. That is the sense used by the old Baltimore Catechism too: faith is “an act of the intellect, prompted by the will, by which we believe what has been revealed on the grounds of the authority of God, who revealed it”.”
Kreeft’s analysis is consistent with what Pope Benedict said last fall:
“For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love.”
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html
Dear Ruthie,Keep in mind that there are many different interpretations of “sola fide,” and one of them is pretty much the same as our Catholic view.
The NCCs (Non-Catholic Christians) who actually believe that they can sin with impunity after being “saved” are very rare. They are usually misinterpreting their church’s teaching; I don’t know of any sects that actually teach that.
More believe that, if one sins after being saved, one was never really saved in the first place. I think that’s pretty common among non-“mainline” NCCs.
The others believe as we do, that one can turn one’s back on God through sin, but can turn back to God, too. (I.e. that salvation is an on-going process.) It is in the “how” of turning back to God that we differ.
One of the biggest gulfs between us and the NCCs is a gulf of words. We define different concepts in different ways. We then misinterpret each others’ phrases. Then some of us get angry about it, instead of looking for common ground.
Heart of Jesus, wherein are all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, have mercy on us.
Ruthie
You made my day!! Bless you for this wonderful statement. I was going to respond, but you said it all.
The Common Understanding of Justification
14.The Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church have together listened to the good news proclaimed in Holy Scripture. This common listening, together with the theological conversations of recent years, has led to a shared understanding of justification. This encompasses a consensus in the basic truths; the differing explications in particular statements are compatible with it.
15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11]
16.All people are called by God to salvation in Christ. Through Christ alone are we justified, when we receive this salvation in faith. Faith is itself God’s gift through the Holy Spirit who works through word and sacrament in the community of believers and who, at the same time, leads believers into that renewal of life which God will bring to completion in eternal life.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html17.We also share the conviction that the message of justification directs us in a special way towards the heart of the New Testament witness to God’s saving action in Christ: it tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way.
Jon
E
East_Anglican
Guest
Romans 1:17
17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith.
So we are made rightous by faith.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no-one can boast
So we are saved by faith and noot works. so justification and salvation are because of faith alone.
But,
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
and
James 2:17
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Therefore as Martin Luther said, good works do not make a good man but a good man does good works.
17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith.
So we are made rightous by faith.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no-one can boast
So we are saved by faith and noot works. so justification and salvation are because of faith alone.
But,
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
and
James 2:17
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Therefore as Martin Luther said, good works do not make a good man but a good man does good works.
W
WMM
Guest
Well said!Romans 1:17
Therefore as Martin Luther said, good works do not make a good man but a good man does good works.
S
SacredHeart1987
Guest
Our view of salvation is completely different from the protestants.The others believe as we do, that one can turn one’s back on God through sin, but can turn back to God, too. (I.e. that salvation is an on-going process.) It is in the “how” of turning back to God that we differ.
Ruthie
S
SacredHeart1987
Guest
Protestants believe in imputed righeousness. Catholics believe in infused righteousness.It can’t be that different, or we never would have seen this.
How so? And since I’m Lutheran, how so specifically from us?Our view of salvation is completely different from the protestants.
Jon
S
SacredHeart1987
Guest
Read my last post where I had just stated how they are different.How so? And since I’m Lutheran, how so specifically from us?
Jon
- Status
- Not open for further replies.