Sola Scriptura?biblical?

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Is this not a fact that your church also would agree with? If not, is there something else in the church that is also inspired-inerrant?
You’re the one making the claim.
This was settled centuries ago when the church determined which books of the NT were inspired-inerrant based on a number of “tests”.
I didn’t ask if scripture was inspired or inerrant. I asked about your claim that scripture is the ***sole ***rule of faith.
It is the details that many are not quite grasping and it is essential to know these details if we are to come to a proper understanding of Sola Scriptura.
No, it’s essential to know what facts you base your claim upon.

Come off it. You claim you base your idea that scripture is the sole rule of faith upon facts. Surely you wouldn’t base it on facts you don’t know. Therefore, you must know these facts. So what are these facts?

Either list the facts or have the honesty to admit you can’t.

The question is not going away, and I will not be goaded into changing the subject. You claim there are facts. I want to see either these facts in your next post to me or I expect you, as a Christian, to have the honesty to admit you don’t have any facts.

One or the other, JA4. Either list the facts or admit you don’t have them.
 
Here’s why its not biblical.
  1. Because the bible was hand written by catholic monks !
  2. They are human and subjet to error; And when they did err it was sometimes noted in the margins, but sometimes not.
Considering and most especially since, the reformation, there are so many different versions of scripture with missing words,missing verses, added verses, missing books, etc. etc. etc.Which bible we choose to use, detemines a lot of our understanding of scripture.

Thats why we need an authority to interpert for us…

Not the multiple denominations that, without the authority of the writer’s under the guidance of the Holy Spirit through catholic church, try to distinguish themselves as true preacher’s of the gospels.

Peace, onenow1 :coffee:
 
Kay Cee;4286512]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Is this not a fact that your church also would agree with? If not, is there something else in the church that is also inspired-inerrant?
Kay Cee
You’re the one making the claim.
Does not the Catholic church make the same claim?
Quote:justasking4
This was settled centuries ago when the church determined which books of the NT were inspired-inerrant based on a number of “tests”.
Kay Cee
I didn’t ask if scripture was inspired or inerrant. I asked about your claim that scripture is the sole rule of faith.
First it must be established that the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant before we can determine if it should be the sole and ultimate rule of faith. If this cannot be established then any book or human could take its place.
Quote:justasking4
It is the details that many are not quite grasping and it is essential to know these details if we are to come to a proper understanding of Sola Scriptura.
Kay Cee
No, it’s essential to know what facts you base your claim upon.
And i’m working on this one fact at a time.
Come off it. You claim you base your idea that scripture is the sole rule of faith upon facts. Surely you wouldn’t base it on facts you don’t know. Therefore, you must know these facts. So what are these facts?
I do know but i suspect you and others don’t.
Either list the facts or have the honesty to admit you can’t.
I can but unless we discuss each along the way my argument will be dismissed out of hand as it has a number of times here.
The question is not going away, and I will not be goaded into changing the subject. You claim there are facts. I want to see either these facts in your next post to me or I expect you, as a Christian, to have the honesty to admit you don’t have any facts.
One fact at a time. We are starting first with inspiration.
One or the other, JA4. Either list the facts or admit you don’t have them.
i do have them…👍
 
Does not the Catholic church make the same claim?
It’s your claim we’re discussing, not any other claim. Stick to the subject.
First it must be established that the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant before we can determine if it should be the sole and ultimate rule of faith. If this cannot be established then any book or human could take its place.
So please do so. And please stick to your sole rule of faith doing so. After all, if it’s your sole rule of faith, you shouldn’t use anything else.
And i’m working on this one fact at a time.
Since you’re giving me nothing, I find that hard to believe.
I do know but i suspect you and others don’t.
Yet you won’t state what these facts are, despite numerous requests.
I can but unless we discuss each along the way my argument will be dismissed out of hand as it has a number of times here.
You don’t know that. You have no way of knowing how I will react to your facts. This is an extremely poor excuse for not stating facts. Truth can stand up to any questioning.
One fact at a time. We are starting first with inspiration.
So start already.
i do have them…👍
Again, I’m finding this hard to believe since I’ve asked many times and have gotten nothing from you but a run-around.

Look at it this way. Let’s say, hypothetically, that you’re speaking to a pagan who’s interested in converting to Christianity. You tell him scripture is the sole rule of faith. You tell him this is based upon facts. He asks for these facts. How do you answer, especially since you’ve previously said it’s not based on a revelation from God?
 
:banghead:
Does not the Catholic church make the same claim?

:tsktsk: 🤓 First it must be established that the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant before we can determine if it should be the sole and ultimate rule of faith. If this cannot be established then any book or human could take its place.

And i’m working on this one fact at a time.

One fact at a time. We are starting first with inspiration.

i do have them…👍
We’re knocking on Very old wood here, almost like brick wall.
What Church, which version of Bible do you factually believe is Inspired, accurate work of God? We Catholics know Both are ongoing Divine work, with 2000 years no essential dogmatic errors.
Don’t we all agree that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God?

But the Bible says Opposite of It being the entire Truth and dogma of God:

1 Timothy 3:16: The Truth is in the Church, Apostles;

Mathew 18:18: Authority for interpreting, teaching, dogma is in the Apostles, now the Magesterium, Bishops, with the Pope. Also Dozen more verses on Authority, like Mathew 18:18-20, OT 17: 8-11, Many more.

What Bible is it you cite as Fact that The Bible is the source of The Truth, The Authority, instead of Bishops?

Vivat Jesus.
:bible1: :knight1: Tony
 
:banghead:

We’re knocking on Very old wood here, almost like brick wall.
What Church, which version of Bible do you factually believe is Inspired, accurate work of God? We Catholics know Both are ongoing Divine work, with 2000 years no essential dogmatic errors.
Don’t we all agree that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God?

But the Bible says Opposite of It being the entire Truth and dogma of God:

1 Timothy 3:16: The Truth is in the Church, Apostles;

Mathew 18:18: Authority for interpreting, teaching, dogma is in the Apostles, now the Magesterium, Bishops, with the Pope. Also Dozen more verses on Authority, like Mathew 18:18-20, OT 17: 8-11, Many more.

What Bible is it you cite as Fact that The Bible is the source of The Truth, The Authority, instead of Bishops?

Vivat Jesus.
:bible1: :knight1: Tony
(Old Testament Deuteronomy 17:8-11 great read on ‘independent readers’…)
Tony
 
Sailka;4287282]:banghead:
We’re knocking on Very old wood here, almost like brick wall.
What Church, which version of Bible do you factually believe is Inspired, accurate work of God?
There is no such thing as one translation of the Bible today. The original autographs were but a version strictly speaking is not.
We Catholics know Both are ongoing Divine work, with 2000 years no essential dogmatic errors.
What do you mean by “Divine work”?
Don’t we all agree that the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God?
Yes. It is the only one that is inspired-inerrant. Correct?
But the Bible says Opposite of It being the entire Truth and dogma of God:
1 Timothy 3:16: The Truth is in the Church, Apostles;
Mathew 18:18: Authority for interpreting, teaching, dogma is in the Apostles, now the Magesterium, Bishops, with the Pope. Also Dozen more verses on Authority, like Mathew 18:18-20, OT 17: 8-11, Many more.
What Bible is it you cite as Fact that The Bible is the source of The Truth, The Authority, instead of Bishops?
Vivat Jesus.
:bible1: :knight1: Tony
When i’m speaking of the Bible i’m referring to God’s revelation to man in written form. Since it has its source in God Himself it carries more authority than any man. For example if any pope or church were to teach that a man can be saved without explicit belief in Christ to be saved that pope or church would be wrong and teaching falsely.
 
What do you mean by “Divine work”?
Making infallible decisions is Divine Work. It does not depend upon man, but upon God.
When i’m speaking of the Bible i’m referring to God’s revelation to man in written form. Since it has its source in God Himself it carries more authority than any man.
It is true that the written word has it’s Source in God HImself, just as the Church does. They are both God breathed.

However, scripture cannot carry “authority” because Scripture has not intellect and will, which are required for discernment and obedience. Scripture does not have the qualities necessary to exercise authority.
For example if any pope or church were to teach that a man can be saved without explicit belief in Christ to be saved that pope or church would be wrong and teaching falsely.
Is that right? Where does it say that in your Bible?

Rom 9:15

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
 
What is the pillar and bulwark of truth… the Bible, One’s Private Interpretation, the Church? If Sacred Scriptures tell us that something upholds and is the foundation of truth, how can it be fallible?

Reply It would be of great assistance to me if I knew that you were or are not a RC.

Differernt parts of the bible as you so rightly indicate have different levels of "authority (in a human, not Godly sense.)

I will weigh it with specifics, but we need to establish a foundation for a reasonable dialog. Thus I will began with an infallible teaching, that has been clearly understood from the earliest of times within the RCC. (Yes there are disenters today.)

"
13* Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” 14* And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16* Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17* And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19* "]I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven
, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

“I”, “you”, “my” and “church” are all singular…

Jesus, a Jew Himself, was speaking to fellow Jews.

In O.T. bibical times, Jewish cites were commonly walled and fortified, and they did have a "main gate, and it did have a "key’.
So why is this important? Because the terms “to loose” and or to “bind,” were factually legealestic Rabbitic terms that committed the power (all the power necessary) to govern.

Jesus, who we recall is God, selected these very words carefully, knowing full well that the people to whom He was speaking would clearly understand what He was telling them.

Historically, each fortified city had a “King”, which is the role assumed by Jesus in the story ("Hail King of the Jew’s) and a Primeminister, who was the “key holder” and the one who made all decessions reguards everyday running of the Kingdom. What the PM said, was done, period. What the PM forbid, was by law forbidden.The Primeminister, chosen by the King God) is Peter. And it is from this understanding that we proceed. When Christ gave Peter the “keys” he was turning over COMPLETE governance of His "Kingdom- His Bride, His Church (singular.) As evidence of this I make two brief points. History shows that this was understood and accepted in the early Church. Second: after Christ Resurection, Jesus stayed with His ELEVEN (Judas is now dead) Apostles, yet Jesus never replaced Judas, Peter did, after the Assumption of Jesus.

So, Peter and subsiquent Popes are the PM"s of our day. With total and complete authority to rule and govern the Church and the bible, and they answer only to God. Amen? Amen! Only the RCC can interpert the bible properly!:o

From this base I will give brief reply to your well thought questions. Also, when I answer “self” I am implying that the passage is clear enough to have a common understanding. I was a bit surprised that you din’t have one from John Chapter six.

In the following Bible quotes, please tell us if these refer to the Bible, your interpretation of the Bible, or to the Church?

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).
Infallible teaching of the RCC

f he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. self interpetTruly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt. 18:15-18). Infallible RCC

“I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2). self interpet

“[W]hen you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers” Self interpet (1 Thess. 2:13).

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15).RCC interpetion

f I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:14-15). RCC interpet

Thanks for the “Q”
God Bless
Pat Miron
Marian Catechist
 
guanophore;4288348]
Originally Posted by justasking4
For example if any pope or church were to teach that a man can be saved without explicit belief in Christ to be saved that pope or church would be wrong and teaching falsely.
guanophore
Is that right? Where does it say that in your Bible?
One of the clearest is found in Acts 4:12:
“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”👍
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Do you know what the context is for this verse? 🤷
 
One of the clearest is found in Acts 4:12:
“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”👍
Absolutely every person who has entered, is now entering, or will enter Heaven is there because of Jesus Christ and His death on the cross and resurrection. Can I get an Amen? 😃
 
Absolutely every person who has entered, is now entering, or will enter Heaven is there because of Jesus Christ and His death on the cross and resurrection. Can I get an Amen? 😃
:amen: And you are correct Also. :). :yyeess:
Vivat Jesus. :knight1: Tony
 
Absolutely every person who has entered, is now entering, or will enter Heaven is there because of Jesus Christ and His death on the cross and resurrection. Can I get an Amen? 😃
Must every person know and acknowledge this to enter heaven?

Must a person belong to the Catholic church to enter heaven?
 
Must every person know and acknowledge this to enter heaven?

Must a person belong to the Catholic church to enter heaven?
😉 Hi jk4! Haven’t seen you in 5 hours!

The Church has the answers on those tough ones also. :highprayer: The Catholic Church is rather unique in saying that those who do not know Our Lord, or His Church, can enter heaven. Only the Lord decides, no human, and no verse decides.

By the same token, those of sound mind who Know the Lord, and/or His Church significantly, but Reject them can not be saved. Hell is a personal Choice. :whistle:
Vivat Jesus. Tony
What does your church or reading of your Bible tell you, jk4?
 
Where is sola scriptura in the bible???
It’s not. In fact the most that Holy Scripture explicitly claims for itself is that it is “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training”.

Now what does the Bible say about the Church?
It says that The Church is “The Pillar and Foundation of Truth”.

Who are you going to listen to, poster BO, or the Bible? I’m going to have to go with the Bible, friend.

If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ, please contact the folks at chnetwork.org/. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift the He has promised to those who follow Him. As Jesus said, “He who eats My body and drinks My blood lives in Me and I in him and I will raise him up on the last day.” And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your servant in Christ.
 
Must every person know and acknowledge this to enter heaven?

Must a person belong to the Catholic church to enter heaven?
:yawn: How does your church, your Bible reading answer your 2 questions, jk4? :manvspc:
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
RCC interpret

Thanks for the “Q”
God Bless
Pat Miron
Marian Catechist
PJM,
Thanks for answering. I notice that it takes a Catholic to answer the question, as non-Catholics and anti-Catholics cannot or will not. These were questions posed for one who “doesn’t see mention of an infallible Church.” For the record, we don’t see mention of his response.

Regarding your need for clarification “It would be of great assistance to me if I knew that you were or are not a RC,” I have to say that a quick peek at my profile would give that answer, as you probably haven’t seen much of what I’ve written/defended/promoted… If you had, I thought it would be obvious as the biretta on our beloved Cardinal Daniel DiNardo’s head.

Since you’re new, please when you respond, leave my quote separate from your answer, as I have done here with yours. Otherwise, the reader of your response finds it difficult to know who wrote what. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted by justasking4
Must every person know and acknowledge this to enter heaven?

Must a person belong to the Catholic church to enter heaven?

Sailka
:yawn: How does your church, your Bible reading answer your 2 questions, jk4? :manvspc:
Vivat Jesus. Tony
Yes to the first one and no to second.
 
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