Sola scriptura-Eucharist, Christmas and Easter celebration question

  • Thread starter Thread starter mommy_k
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, but the question is posed to protestants who don’t, and claim scripture over tradition.

The logic is not there for me.

Dare I venture to the directive of Jesus when he says from the Cross to John:
“Behold your Mother”-as He is giving Mary to mankind as a way to Him?

This seems like another scripture that is dismissed too, or individualized in the same manner. The Holy Family is displayed in many nativity scenes in protestant homes, yet the words of Jesus from the cross are ignored.🤷
Behold your Mother , as in so she could be provided for , because of society at the time , many of Jesus were not saved , and John was the friend he could trust to provide for his mother , so who is ignoring what now:D
 
Behold your Mother , as in so she could be provided for , because of society at the time , many of Jesus were not saved , and John was the friend he could trust to provide for his mother , so who is ignoring what now:D
That is your interpretation.
I have the bible and weight of JPII’s teaching behind mine.
 
Random things not “found in the Bible”.
Cars
Airplanes
Computers
Online forums
TVs
Movies
Trains
Radios
Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Kingdom Halls.
False prophecies by founders of a certain religion.
Where do you find “Bible” in the Bible?
Which I might add, was put together by the Catholic Church.

Is it possible that…maybe…just maybe…you are using the Bible in a way it was never intended to be used?
its funny how you mention things like cars, movies, trains etc etc since they weren’t even invented back then and which has nothing to do with religion, and then compare it to something like christmas.

Even though this is off topic, let me just tell you something about the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. the name is based on Isaiah 43:7,10 which says - “Everyone who is called by my name… You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,
“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen”.
So since we are the only one’s preaching or witnessing Gods name and making it known and preaching about his kingdom we therefore are consider to be “Jehovah’s Witnesses”

Why the name kingdom hall?
The name Kingdom Hall is appropriate because Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Bible-based message is about God’s Kingdom. Like our Lord Jesus Christ, the primary work of Jehovah’s Witnesses is preaching the good news of the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom that encompasses heaven and earth. (Matthew 6:9,10; 24:14)
Jesus said: “I must proclaim the good news about the kingdom of God to the other towns also, BECAUSE I WAS SENT FOR THIS PURPOSE…” – Luke 4:43
As Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses share their Lord’s purpose. The primary name of their meeting places harmonizes with that. We also don’t have any images, crosses or statues in our halls that’s associated with may churches today

i wont argue with you that it could be possible that im using the bible in a way not intended, but i could ask you the same thing? it goes without question then that we need to examine or study the bible to answer that question

you were the same one that asked for “documentation” right? documentation to show 1st century christians never celebrated Jesus birth…
well the bible doesn’t make any mention of it, if u do some research u will notice that Jews didn’t celebrate birthdays, and that you can ask any historian… think about it if Jesus birthday or any servant of Gods birthday was that important would the bible not make mention of people celebrating it? would the God not put the date of Jesus birth in the bible since its that important? or atleast show how Jesus celebrated his birthday and how his diciples celebrated theres… no where from genesis to revelation does any prophet, diciple or christian mention it even when age is mentioned…
You should ask for documentation that shows Christians back then celebrated birthdays and Christmas then get back to me when you done that and got it:thumbsup:
 
Yes, but the question is posed to protestants who don’t, and claim scripture over tradition.

The logic is not there for me.

Dare I venture to the directive of Jesus when he says from the Cross to John:
“Behold your Mother”-as He is giving Mary to mankind as a way to Him?

This seems like another scripture that is dismissed too, or individualized in the same manner. The Holy Family is displayed in many nativity scenes in protestant homes, yet the words of Jesus from the cross are ignored.🤷
I think that making John indicative of “mankind” is going way beyond scripture, and I understand why sola scriptura Protestants reject it.

The real presence in the Eucharist is scriptural, and I think the symbolic view is unscriptural.
 
You should ask for documentation that shows Christians back then celebrated birthdays and Christmas then get back to me when you done that and got it:thumbsup:
I think you have it backwards, CO7. Looking back, you were the one who made the statement (below), so the onus is on you to prove your point, and not for JustAServant to look for a contrary answer himself. 😉 (Got it?)
40.png
JustAServant:
40.png
ChosenOne7:
In an effort to divorce themselves from ALL pagan practices, the early Christians refused
to set aside a date marking Jesus’ birth.
Documentation?
So I join him in asking … documentation? “Refused” is a strong word, implying that they had the option, but decided against it. Therefore, your proof needs to be even more documented, showing refusal, rather than simply indifference, disinterest, or lack of awareness…

While we’re at it, you did not answer my questions, either.
 
Behold your Mother , as in so she could be provided for , because of society at the time , many of Jesus were not saved , and John was the friend he could trust to provide for his mother , so who is ignoring what now:D
@Starwarsfan2
I believe the Bible contains messages on many levels. Each verse has a deeper and not conflicting message to the other messages. For example, when Jesus says “I am the vine and you are the branches”, He obviously didn’t mean He was a literal vine but used this imagery that was common for the location. I believe we all accept without Jesus, we “branches” will wither and die so we need Him every second of the day. Following this imagery, vines go out; they spread as we are to spread out and to reach out to others. Branches depend on the “vine” as He is the Source not only of our being but the Source of our daily nourishment. I think you get the idea.

When Jesus commends the care of His mother to John, He may have been speaking on many levels as His Word (the Bible) speaks to us on many levels. Yes, Mary would need care and protection because the culture back then was not very nice to widows without adult children to care for them. In our world today, with secular idols (money, drugs, porn, etc), our “mother” church requires our care more than ever.

If you don’t believe in Mary as the Blessed Mother, the Queen of Heaven, the Ever Virgin and Holy Mother of God, perhaps you might accept that Mary was with the Apostles in their greatest time of need as they faced their crisis of faith. She probably mourned her Son more than any other mother has or since, knowing He was the Son of God, but she probably offered consolation to His friends and followers in those scary, dark days in the upper room. We Catholics believe Mary continues to offer us consolation in our darkest times, not as God does, but as a mother would. Through Christ Jesus, we are children of God and brother to Jesus. We look to Blessed Mary as our adopted mother.

God Bless you. 👍
 
If our intention is pure, this is pleasing to God. Since pagans of old defiled a couple of birthday celebrations, that does not automatically exclude all Christians from using a worthy practice to honor God.
Hey sirach2 it has been a while hey… It’s nice to see you doing well or atleast I hope you are… I do appreciate your prayers as I pray for you too…

I see you mentioned 1 Timothy 4:4,5 and then applied it to birthdays, people often take one scripture and take it out of context similar to what you have done… But please take the time to read from verse 1 to see the context, the very verse before verse 4 at 1 Timothy 4:3 says “forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.”
The context of verse 4 and 5 is in verse 3, which speaks about food… The apostle Paul warns against conscienceless men who put on a display of sanctification that is false, “commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. The reason for this is that every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified through God’s word and prayer over it.” If God’s Word declares a thing clean, it is clean, and the Christian, by giving thanks for it in prayer, accepts it as sanctified, and God counts him clean in eating. That verse has nothing to do with a man’s life or anything else like you mentioned. Similarly with the verse you used in Mark 7:15, that too is about food… Let’s read the verse after that from 17 it says - Now when he had entered a house away from the crowd, his disciples began to question him about the illustration.18So he said to them: “Are you also without understanding like them? Are you not aware that nothing from outside that enters into a man can defile him,19since it enters, not into his heart, but into his stomach, and it passes out into the sewer?” Thus he declared all foods clean.
Tell me how does any of those verses you used stand as a defense for what you using it for?

“As long as you have pure intentions”
People often say that as a way to justify what they believe… The Bible actually recorded an account of a group of God’s people that chose to worship him with pure intentions and I would really like that you read that account and hope that you get the point. The account is at Exodus 32:1-35. There you will see the Israelites also adopted a religious practice which they renamed as “a festival to Jehovah” and “sat down to eat and drink and to have a good time”. Even though the Israelites with pure intentions used this festival to worship the True God, God still viewed this as idolatry or a form of pagan worship, and that is also true of customs today that are clearly derived from false religious practices. Here’s more verses you can read (Lev.18:3; Deut.12:30, 31; Jer. 10:2; 1Cor.10:6- 11).
True Christians will listen to what God’s thinking and avoid any association with idolatrous, pagan backgrounds and corruptive non-Christian practices in their pure worship of the True God.

Jehovah’s Witnesses base all of their beliefs, their standards for conduct, and organizational procedures on the Bible. Yes, the Bible does command children to honor, obey and respect their parents. (Eph. 6:1, 2) But nowhere does it advocate the commemoration of a special “Father’s Day” or a special “Mother’s Day”. True Christians follow Jesus Christ as their Exemplar and realize that to Jesus,everyday was Father’s Day. He did not set aside only one particular day out of the year to bring praise to his Father. He did so every day.
We don’t celebrate any of those days that you mentioned, remember we have a different view of death than to what you do. And we also like Jesus always give all praise to God the Father never to a particular human
 
I see you mentioned 1 Timothy 4:4,5 and then applied it to birthdays, people often take one scripture and take it out of context similar to what you have done… The context of verse 4 and 5 is in verse 3, which speaks about food… The apostle Paul warns against conscienceless men who put on a display of sanctification that is false, “commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.

The reason for this is that every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified through God’s word and prayer over it.” If God’s Word declares a thing clean, it is clean, and the Christian, by giving thanks for it in prayer, accepts it as sanctified, and God counts him clean in eating. That verse has nothing to do with a man’s life or anything else like you mentioned.
I fully understood that the scripture was referencing foods, but as I tried to explain, it is always “intention” that makes an act good or evil. If a person, knowing that all things God made are good (Gen. 1:31), uses His creation rightly, whether or not some persons are conscious of partaking with prayer or thanksgiving, then it cannot be sinful in itself. Since there is no word whatsoever in scripture forbidding birthdays or other celebrations honoring particular persons, in themselves* they are good*, unless an evil motive desecrates it.

An example might be immodest clothing deliberately chosen by women to seduce men. Clothing is a good thing, and we are to use it modestly, but evil intent is what makes it sinful. For a man to look with lust at a woman, Jesus says he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Another good benefit of creation is partaking of wine, and Jesus provided it at Cana when the wedding guests ran dry. Yet drunkenness or immoderate use of alcohol can be very sinful. To follow your logic, since Noah was drunk, then all drinking should be forbidden based on an isolated scripture where it was wrongly used.

For another look at purity of intention, you might remember Mt. 6:1, “Take heed not to do your good before men in order to be seen by them; otherwise you shall have no reward with your Father in heaven.” And other admonitions follow this verse, all in regard to purity of intention. This was my only purpose in citing the aforesaid verse, but I could have used these as well, for these teachings are not isolated, but repeated elsewhere in scripture.
We don’t celebrate any of those days that you mentioned, remember we have a different view of death than to what you do. And we also like Jesus always give all praise to God the Father never to a particular human.
CO7, may I mention that this is a Catholic forum, and you are most welcome always as a guest, but you need to recognize that you and I have our own faith concepts. I invite you to approach Catholics with an objectivity that sees our faith for what it is (regardless of whether you agree with it or not). To infer that I or another do not read or follow the bible as JW’s do, is to interpret, and understand the Catholic faith through the lens of their own presuppositions, agendas, and biases.

Have a nice weekend.
 
I fully understood that the scripture was referencing foods, but as I tried to explain, it is always “intention” that makes an act good or evil. If a person, knowing that all things God made are good (Gen. 1:31), uses His creation rightly, whether or not some persons are conscious of partaking with prayer or thanksgiving, then it cannot be sinful in itself. Since there is no word whatsoever in scripture forbidding birthdays or other celebrations honoring particular persons, in themselves* they are good*, unless an evil motive desecrates it.

An example might be immodest clothing deliberately chosen by women to seduce men. Clothing is a good thing, and we are to use it modestly, but evil intent is what makes it sinful. For a man to look with lust at a woman, Jesus says he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Another good benefit of creation is partaking of wine, and Jesus provided it at Cana when the wedding guests ran dry. Yet drunkenness or immoderate use of alcohol can be very sinful. To follow your logic, since Noah was drunk, then all drinking should be forbidden based on an isolated scripture where it was wrongly used.

For another look at purity of intention, you might remember Mt. 6:1, “Take heed not to do your good before men in order to be seen by them; otherwise you shall have no reward with your Father in heaven.” And other admonitions follow this verse, all in regard to purity of intention. This was my only purpose in citing the aforesaid verse, but I could have used these as well, for these teachings are not isolated, but repeated elsewhere in scripture.

CO7, may I mention that this is a Catholic forum, and you are most welcome always as a guest, but you need to recognize that you and I have our own faith concepts. I invite you to approach Catholics with an objectivity that sees our faith for what it is (regardless of whether you agree with it or not). To infer that I or another do not read or follow the bible as JW’s do, is to interpret, and understand the Catholic faith through the lens of their own presuppositions, agendas, and biases.

Have a nice weekend.
I take it you didn’t read that account in exodus right? They had good intentions just like you saying… You see when you use scriptures like that you can’t apply it to anything you want… It’s almost like you twisting the scriptures in a way to support your beliefs… If you recognise that those verses is about food then why apply it to everything else?

Again I’ll ask you to read the account in exodus and let me know what you think, the Israelites had the same good intentions you speaking about check how God felt about there good intentions. The Bible speaks of birthdays in a bad light that we can agree on, if you do research you will see no servant of God celebrated birthdays… I encourage you to do research on that check if Jews ever celebrated birthdays

You see its not about being Catholic or protestant or Lutheran… The amazing thing is that we all have the Bible… Hence again… I’ll always refer u back to the scriptures… Read exodus that is touching the topic we are talking about now… To speak about dress code and drinking is 2 topics on its own and you know that Sirach2…like I said before… The Bible has all the answers we looking for and nothing has to ever be a mystery to us
 
The Bible speaks of birthdays in a bad light that we can agree on, if you do research you will see no servant of God celebrated birthdays… I encourage you to do research on that check if Jews ever celebrated birthdays
I don’t believe you answered JustAServant’s or my question, asking for documentation. Since you seem so very positive, it is YOU who claim to have the info that you are asking US to research. Why would we, if you are able furnish the proof to back up your claim?? Where is it in the bible to forbid these celebrations? For that matter, there is very little in the bible that answers deep problems of today, such as abortion, cloning, capital punishment, etc. Sola scriptura is not applicable.

As for Exodus and the “good intention” … I utterly disagree that it was anywhere near being a “good intention!” Did you read this verse? “They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

God had given them the commandment never to make an idol, and they were corrupt with impatience, doubted God’s providence and reverted to the sacred cows they worshipped in Egypt. Nothing new under the sun!
To speak about dress code and drinking is 2 topics on its own and you know that Sirach2…like I said before.
You’re missing my point entirely, that it is about “intention” in the heart. Did you read the other points Jesus addressed regarding the impure motives in Matthew 6, even though they were *outwardly *doing a good thing? I know not how to reach you, so we are at an impasse, since you avoid recognizing that good deeds can be evil due to wrong motives, and that impartial, neutral deeds, such as celebrations, may be blessed and pleasing to God if the heart is pure. Was Jesus wrong to celebrate at a wedding feast? Would you classify these as immoral also?
 
I don’t believe you answered JustAServant’s or my question, asking for documentation. Since you seem so very positive, it is YOU who claim to have the info that you are asking US to research. Why would we, if you are able furnish the proof to back up your claim?? Where is it in the bible to forbid these celebrations? For that matter, there is very little in the bible that answers deep problems of today, such as abortion, cloning, capital punishment, etc. Sola scriptura is not applicable.

As for Exodus and the “good intention” … I utterly disagree that it was anywhere near being a “good intention!” Did you read this verse? “They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

God had given them the commandment never to make an idol, and they were corrupt with impatience, doubted God’s providence and reverted to the sacred cows they worshipped in Egypt. Nothing new under the sun!

You’re missing my point entirely, that it is about “intention” in the heart. Did you read the other points Jesus addressed regarding the impure motives in Matthew 6, even though they were *outwardly *doing a good thing? I know not how to reach you, so we are at an impasse, since you avoid recognizing that good deeds can be evil due to wrong motives, and that impartial, neutral deeds, such as celebrations, may be blessed and pleasing to God if the heart is pure. Was Jesus wrong to celebrate at a wedding feast? Would you classify these as immoral also?
I’m giving you and him a opportunity to learn something by yourself to do research… Because I notice when I say something it’s like people tend to nit pick what they want to use to help there statement… Go to the Catholic encyclopedia you will find some very interesting documentation about birthdays.

You see you doing it again you using 1 verse trying to make a point with it to help with your statement… Okay… I tell you what let’s discuss a few of the verses together… I’ll use the NKJV of the Bible… Exodus 32:3,4 - 3 So all the people broke off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them to Aaron. 4 And he received the gold from their hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf. Then they said, “This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!”
Who is the God that just delivered them out of the hands of the Egyptians? Aren’t they referring to him… Would you not say they doing this with good intentions so as to worship God? I mean they giving all there gold aswel they giving expensive things there best so to say to worship God… Verses 5-7 says 5 So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow is a feast to the Lord.” 6 Then they rose early on the next day, offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
They made an altar and what did they call it? “feast to the Lord”… Good intentions would u not say? I mean what’s wrong with there worship if it for God and not for any other pagan God’s? Isn’t that the same thing you saying when you say Christmas is to worship God and no one else?
Verse 7 and 8… 7 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go, get down! For your people whom you brought out of the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves. 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them. They have made themselves a molded calf, and worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘This is your god, O Israel, that brought you out of the land of Egypt!’”

Why did God not accept there worship if it was directed for him? Isn’t it because of the use of idolatry? Idolatry is a form of pagan worship… Because thats how the Egyptians worshipped their pagan God’s… So the gist of this is that even though the Israelites done something which they thought would be good for God because they even named the feast after God, it wasn’t good God didn’t approve of that kind of worship.

It is the use of pagan things associated with pagan worship that is at the heart of the issue. It would be wrong to incorporate anything used for pagan worship, into our worship or related activities.
Now coming back to the original topic… Remember weddings is not of pagan origin, it’s Christmas that is. So there is nothing wrong with weddings, it’s some of the things in a wedding that is also of pagan nature which we as Jw’s also avoid, like for example wearing a veil… But that’s besides the point here. Point is we can’t mix true worship with false worship, Christmas is not scriptural no matter how you look at it, it is of pagan origins, the date especially. Do research.
 
I’m giving you and him a opportunity to learn something by yourself to do research.
Christmas is not scriptural no matter how you look at it, it is of pagan origins, the date especially. Do research.
CO7, your logic is so wild that I am going to abandon further discussion with you. It is not even worth trying to have a meeting of the minds, as I see how impossible it is. JW’s have their own way of seeing things, and I respect that, but you will need to recognize that Catholics do also.

Dialogue is a purpose to discover another’s truth, NOT to put it down and call it “pagan.” :sad_bye:
 
CO7, your logic is so wild that I am going to abandon further discussion with you. It is not even worth trying to have a meeting of the minds, as I see how impossible it is. JW’s have their own way of seeing things, and I respect that, but you will need to recognize that Catholics do also.

Dialogue is a purpose to discover another’s truth, NOT to put it down and call it “pagan.” You’re bordering on a misuse of forum rules.
But that is truth… Hence I’m encouraging you to do research since you don’t believe what I’m saying maybe because I’m Jw you think we make up these things and seem to look at scripture wrong… These things was stated way before we as Jw’s even existed we basically just confirming it… Research has shown that Christmas has pagan backgrounds. This isn’t even about being jw or protestant but the mere fact that I’m encouraging you to do research shows that I’m not giving you my own jw resources as reference for my stance… Hence I said check out the Catholic encyclopedia maybe you will believe it more if you see it on there.

Consider these quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under “Christmas”: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.” Further, “Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas.” Under “Natal Day,” Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world” (emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 edition, adds, “Christmas…was not observed in the first centuries of the Christian church, since the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth…a feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered the feast to be celebrated forever on the day of the Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and at the close of the Saturnalia, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed.”

Numerous encyclopedias plainly state that Christ was not born on December 25th! The Catholic Encyclopedia directly confirms this.
Now read this quote under “Christmas”: “In the Roman world, the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birthdate of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th ed., vol. II, p. 903)
 
But that is truth… Hence I’m encouraging you to do research since you don’t believe what I’m saying maybe because I’m Jw you think we make up these things and seem to look at scripture wrong… These things was stated way before we as Jw’s even existed we basically just confirming it… Research has shown that Christmas has pagan backgrounds. This isn’t even about being jw or protestant but the mere fact that I’m encouraging you to do research shows that I’m not giving you my own jw resources as reference for my stance… Hence I said check out the Catholic encyclopedia maybe you will believe it more if you see it on there.

Consider these quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under “Christmas”: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.” Further, “Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas.” Under “Natal Day,” Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world” (emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 edition, adds, “Christmas…was not observed in the first centuries of the Christian church, since the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth…a feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered the feast to be celebrated forever on the day of the Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and at the close of the Saturnalia, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed.”

Numerous encyclopedias plainly state that Christ was not born on December 25th! The Catholic Encyclopedia directly confirms this.
Now read this quote under “Christmas”: “In the Roman world, the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birthdate of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th ed., vol. II, p. 903)
My response to this is, so what? Are you aware of any Christian church that spends time during Advent, Christmas, or the Epiphany seasons talking about Mithra? If not, then it is clear that the celebration of Christmas is in keeping with that of the angels and shepherds of scripture, and not of some ancient and long forgotten pagan group.
Jon
 
My response to this is, so what? Are you aware of any Christian church that spends time during Advent, Christmas, or the Epiphany seasons talking about Mithra? If not, then it is clear that the celebration of Christmas is in keeping with that of the angels and shepherds of scripture, and not of some ancient and long forgotten pagan group.
Jon
😃
“So what” is actually a very good answer.
My late atheist boss was very challenging in his responses to me back in my fundamentalist days. “So what?” forced me to dig deeper and think harder about the implications of what I was proclaiming.

Sirach
He won’t give documentation because he has none. He’s a one-note pony. Everything is pagan, do research. He doesn’t realize when taken to it’s natural end, his position does indeed end with EVERYTHING is pagan. It dwarfs intellect and spiritual growth.
 
😃
“So what” is actually a very good answer.
My late atheist boss was very challenging in his responses to me back in my fundamentalist days. “So what?” forced me to dig deeper and think harder about the implications of what I was proclaiming.

Sirach
He won’t give documentation because he has none. He’s a one-note pony. Everything is pagan, do research. He doesn’t realize when taken to it’s natural end, his position does indeed end with EVERYTHING is pagan. It dwarfs intellect and spiritual growth.
I just gave you documentation from the encyclopedia did you not see that? Do you believe the writtens of Origen?..

“So what” is consider a good response? Lol… Okay - where I’m from that would be consider a bad response because you have just been given proof from your own Catholic encyclopedia that birthdays wasn’t celebrated yet you still don’t believe you don’t have any other choice but to respond that way… And if that’s the case that you can’t admit to that fact then we done but thanks for the encouragment it has allowed me to go back in to my research and now can remember much more than what I did before. And I did not say everything is pagan I’ll say this again for the last time in bold CHRISTMAS is pagan… U the one mentioning other THINGS. but thanks guys it’s always good discussing this 🙂
 
I just gave you documentation from the encyclopedia did you not see that? Do you believe the writtens of Origen?..

“So what” is consider a good response? Lol… Okay - where I’m from that would be consider a bad response because you have just been given proof from your own Catholic encyclopedia that birthdays wasn’t celebrated yet you still don’t believe you don’t have any other choice but to respond that way… And if that’s the case that you can’t admit to that fact then we done but thanks for the encouragment it has allowed me to go back in to my research and now can remember much more than what I did before. And I did not say everything is pagan I’ll say this again for the last time in bold CHRISTMAS is pagan… U the one mentioning other THINGS. but thanks guys it’s always good discussing this 🙂
JonNC gave you a good answer, and he’s not Catholic.
Anyway, “so what?” IS a good answer any college professor worth his salt would give to FORCE the student dig deeper into his or her reasoning beyond a standard proclamation. Feel free to take your toys and go home if you wish. Make your proclamation: CHRISTMAS IS PAGAN.
You still haven’t answered our response in return:
SO WHAT?
The balls in your court.
 
😃
“So what” is actually a very good answer.
My late atheist boss was very challenging in his responses to me back in my fundamentalist days. “So what?” forced me to dig deeper and think harder about the implications of what I was proclaiming.

Sirach
He won’t give documentation because he has none. He’s a one-note pony. Everything is pagan, do research. He doesn’t realize when taken to it’s natural end, his position does indeed end with EVERYTHING is pagan. It dwarfs intellect and spiritual growth.
Justa,
Do you think it is a fair counter to CO7’s constant drumbeat of pagan this and that to ask if rejecting the divinity of Christ is pagan?

Jon
 
😃
“So what” is actually a very good answer.

Sirach
He won’t give documentation because he has none. He’s a one-note pony. Everything is pagan, do research. He doesn’t realize when taken to it’s natural end, his position does indeed end with EVERYTHING is pagan. It dwarfs intellect and spiritual growth.
And JW’s believe THEY alone possess the truth, as they interpret scripture. I wonder if they will adhere to these?

Lk. 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not **hate **father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple. (But of course, Jesus is just a nice guy, but they wouldn’t want to be His disciple, anyway. 😛 )

Jn. 12:25 “Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” ( Maybe that will enable them to be one of the 144,000 who make it there???)

Ah, but we will get a “wrongful meaning or intention” comeback, yet when presented with the same concept of intentions with respect to goodness, we misinterpret scripture. :rolleyes:
Today’s gospel, coincidentally, spoke about the man whom Jesus healed who was unable to hear or speak correctly, and I felt deep sorrow for those in this condition today, with respect to Truth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top