Sola Scriptura is Absolutely biblical

[cfrancis]

You do not have a single example of sacred tradition that comes from Christ outside of scripture. Nada. Not one. We have been down this road before. The crickets chirp each time you guys try.

You mean other than the canon of Scripture…and worship on Sunday…the sound and fury, signifying nothing, rings forth each time these are raised.

 

[Rightlydivide]

I really expected something better than an emotional rant. This surprised me.
I never said “God needs” - I think you know that.
Therefore, your reply reveals someone backed into an intellectual corner.
Your reply also avoids the issue I raised. We agree “God gave us his scripture. [We] believe in a God big enough to do that”

God didn’t need Moses to lead His people; God didn’t need the Ark of the Covenant to defeat Israel’s enemies; God didn’t need Mary to bring His Son to earth; Christ didn’t need mud, spit, water, tassle’s of his shawl, water, etc… to heal and do miracles; God didn’t need Peter and Paul to heal people; God didn’t need anyone to preach His Gospel as He could infuse it into us as He did Paul.
But the fact is, God used all the above to do His will.
And the fact is, God used an extra-Scriptural authority to identify His written Word.

God did use all of those things. But they were never the authority. God was. God is in control. God did use people and councils to help people recognize his Bible. But the people were never the authority. God was.
You start off correct but change to protect your presuppositions at the end.
Quit talking about my emotions. We are guys. We do not talk about emotions.

 

[MDK]

You do not have a single example of sacred tradition that comes from Christ outside of scripture. Nada. Not one. We have been down this road before. The crickets chirp each time you guys try.

We know how God worked, and you do not, unfortunately. We live by this and teach in accordance. Actually, we do have things that survive and are not written, and are passed down being enacted and protected by the hand of God.

You have yet to answer that you have no single bit of evidence that Sacred Tradition is not from God, do you?

 

[Rightlydivide]

You mean other than the canon of Scripture…and worship on Sunday…the sound and fury, signifying nothing, rings forth each time these are raised.

You do not have an extra biblical statement that says that Christ described the canon or the day of worship. Next try.

 

[Rightlydivide]

We know how God worked, and you do not, unfortunately. We live by this and teach in accordance. Actually, we do have things that survive and are not written, and are passed down being enacted and protected by the hand of God.

You have yet to answer that you have no single bit of evidence that Sacred Tradition is not from God, do you?

You want me to prove a negative? That is interesting. I thought that was impossible. Did you just seriously ask me to prove a negative?

 

[cfrancis]

God did use all of those things. But they were never the authority. God was. God is in control. God did use people and councils to help people recognize his Bible. **But the people were never the authority. God was. **

Yes, God is always the authority - again, we agree!
But we also see in Scripture that man can be God’s authority on earth, that God gives to man the authority, and man wields God’s authority.

You start off correct but change to protect your presuppositions at the end.

Perhaps I finished correctly, and such is an assault on your presuppositions.

Quit talking about my emotions. We are guys. We do not talk about emotions.

Don’t know what you do for a living, but I’m far beyond the whole “here’s how a man does things” period.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Yes, God is always the authority - again, we agree!
But we also see in Scripture that man can be God’s authority on earth, that God gives to man the authority, and man wields God’s authority.
Perhaps I finished correctly, and such is an assault on your presuppositions.
Don’t know what you do for a living, but I’m far beyond the whole “here’s how a man does things” period.

There is no biblical proof that God needs an authority to give us scripture. For example, all through the NT, including 2nd Timothy, we find out that there was scripture prior to Christ. We never read anything about an authority being needed to have scripture. That simply is not in there.
I am not interested in talking about what I do for a living but other times we post you mention my emotions. That is a fact.

 

[cfrancis]

You do not have an extra biblical statement that says that Christ described the canon or the day of worship. Next try.

Excuse me? Did you really type this??? I thought you had an MDiv?
I suppose you’re used to being able to change the framing of an argument and ahving people either not recognize or not care.
The issue isn’t, do we have extra-Biblical statements from Christ recorded somewhere (though you know that already); the issue is, are there examples of extra-Scriptural authoritative decisions, such as the canon or worship on Sunday.
Nice try. Next.

 

[MDK]

You want me to prove a negative? That is interesting. I thought that was impossible. Did you just seriously ask me to prove a negative?

I want you to prove what you claim (which is not possible simply because what you claim isn’t true). Your argument against Tradition is weak and lousy and wrong, but you can’t prove our position is false and yours is correct. The burden is on you (and you never will succeed, no matter how long you try), as I feel very comfortable trusting God and what He has done.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Excuse me? Did you really type this??? I thought you had an MDiv?
I suppose you’re used to being able to change the framing of an argument and ahving people either not recognize or not care.
The issue isn’t, do we have extra-Biblical statements from Christ recorded somewhere (though you know that already); the issue is, are there examples of extra-Scriptural authoritative decisions, such as the canon or worship on Sunday.
Nice try. Next.

Yes. You referenced that on another thread as well when I posted the Catholic sources that agreed with me.
It is absolutely the issue that sacred tradtion cannot be proven to come from Christ or his apostles.
As far as worship on Sundays, you guys go to church on Saturday nights around here so I am not even sure what you are talking about on that one.

 

[cfrancis]

There is no biblical proof that God needs an authority to give us scripture. For example, all through the NT, including 2nd Timothy, we find out that there was scripture prior to Christ.

Excellent! What verses reveal the canon to which they refer?

We never read anything about an authority being needed to have scripture. That simply is not in there.

We also never read anything that defines waht Scripture is, or how to decide what goes into the canon. Your argument, then, is an argument from silence. Interesting.

I am not interested in talking about what I do for a living but other times we post you mention my emotions. That is a fact.

Neither am I (you know that, though) - and neither am I interested in your definition of what is a “man.”

 

[Rightlydivide]

I want you to prove what you claim (which is not possible simply because what you claim isn’t true). Your argument against Tradition is weak and lousy and wrong, but you can’t prove our position is false and yours is correct. The burden is on you (and you never will succeed, no matter how long you try), as I feel very comfortable trusting God and what He has done.

You want me to prove a negative. I want you to prove a single of so called sacred traditons that come from Christ or his apostles. Can you do that? Something outside of scripture? You see, I have scripture, and you do too, but you guys claim somethin else.
Sacred Tradition you call it. Of course this is not uncommon to believe in a nubulous tradition outside of scripture. The numbers of groups which claim this number in the thousands. All I want is someone to prove one that comes from Christ of his apostles.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Excellent! What verses reveal the canon to which they refer?
We also never read anything that defines waht Scripture is, or how to decide what goes into the canon. Your argument, then, is an argument from silence. Interesting.
Neither am I (you know that, though) - and neither am I interested in your definition of what is a “man.”

Every NT quote that uses graphe is an example of what that constitutes. One reason the deuterocanonicals are never called that.
I do not define what is in the canon. God does.

 

[cfrancis]

Yes. You referenced that on another thread as well when I posted the Catholic sources that agreed with me. It is absolutely the issue that sacred tradtion cannot be proven to come from Christ or his apostles.

Do you ever actually address the issue, or are you used to dealing with people who don’t recognize when you re-frame the argument?
Based upon your statement, you, too, cannot prove that the the writings of the NT come fomr God.
But such is off topic; the issue is, are there examples of extra-Biblical authoritative teachings (again, you know that, but wish to avoid it).

As far as worship on Sundays, you guys go to church on Saturday nights around here so I am not even sure what you are talking about on that one.

Do you ever tire of popping chaff? Your issue with the vigil Mass is what?

 

[cfrancis]

Every NT quote that uses graphe is an example of what that constitutes. One reason the deuterocanonicals are never called that.
I do not define what is in the canon. God does.

Excellent! Please, provide the Bible verses that define the canon and the criteria for inclusion in the canon!

 

[Rightlydivide]

We do not need to know what the canon was in 30 AD. Most of you do not accept that there was one. You believe in the myth of a different canon for different groups of Jews. Of course the Bible rejects this and also scholars are coming around to this as well.
Finally the myth of an Alexandrian canon is being exposed for the myth that it is.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Do you ever actually address the issue, or are you used to dealing with people who don’t recognize when you re-frame the argument?
Based upon your statement, you, too, cannot prove that the the writings of the NT come fomr God.
But such is off topic; the issue is, are there examples of extra-Biblical authoritative teachings (again, you know that, but wish to avoid it).

Do you ever tire of popping chaff? Your issue with the vigil Mass is what?

No you guys are allowed to go to church on Saturday afternoon or evening instead of Sunday. You know that.

 

[cfrancis]

We do not need to know what the canon was in 30 AD. Most of you do not accept that there was one. You believe in the myth of a different canon for different groups of Jews. Of course the Bible rejects this and also scholars are coming around to this as well.
Finally the myth of an Alexandrian canon is being exposed for the myth that it is.

Wow…please, provide the Bible verses that prove your unsupported assertion!

 

[Rightlydivide]

Do you ever actually address the issue, or are you used to dealing with people who don’t recognize when you re-frame the argument?
Based upon your statement, you, too, cannot prove that the the writings of the NT come fomr God.
But such is off topic; the issue is, are there examples of extra-Biblical authoritative teachings (again, you know that, but wish to avoid it).

Do you ever tire of popping chaff? Your issue with the vigil Mass is what?

Authoritative teachings for who? You?
We do not use the same canon.
And once again you guys go to church Saturday or Sunday. That is a fact.

 

[cfrancis]

No you guys are allowed to go to church on Saturday afternoon or evening instead of Sunday. You know that.

Again, your issue with the Vigil Mass is what?
I suppose you’ll next condemn us for having Mass Mon-Sat…look out, more chaff coming!!!