Sola Scriptura is Absolutely biblical

[cfrancis]

The Catholic Church only in the past 20 years started teaching salvation by faith. It was always a work your way into heaven gospel before that.

Please, provide the evidence for yor statement.

 

[cfrancis]

The Jews are in a diiferent category than Musilims. No doubt we are not worshipping the same God.

You set the criteria: don’t believe the Trinity, deny Christ is God, don’t believe Christ died for our sins.
Jews:

• don’t believe/deny the Trinity: check
• deny Christ is God: check
• don’t believe Christ died for our sins: check

How many “Gods” are there, ja4?

 

[ron77nyc]

Please, provide the evidence for yor statement.

The evidence is my own personal experience and everyone else I went to school with.

 

[justasking4]

You set the criteria: don’t believe the Trinity, deny Christ is God, don’t believe Christ died for our sins.
Jews:

• don’t believe/deny the Trinity: check
• deny Christ is God: check
• don’t believe Christ died for our sins: check

How many “Gods” are there, ja4?

One. If someone rejects any of these statements do they believe in the same God?

 

[cfrancis]

One. If someone rejects any of these statements do they believe in the same God?

Yes. Do they believe in and understand the fullness of God? No.
For example, a people who worship a sun god recognize that aspect of God that is life-giving, sustaining.
As I stated previously, God created man with a nature that desires to worship something beyond itself, That from which man came.
Unless, of course, you believe there is a sun god…

 

[MDK]

The Catholic Church only in the past 20 years started teaching salvation by faith. It was always a work your way into heaven by not sinning gospel before that. They still teach that you have to be perfectly sinless to enter heaven. Is anyone perfectly sinless besides the Blessed Mother? Therefore no one is going directly to heaven but they are first going to Purgatory. If that were the true gospel wouldn’t the apostles and Jesus have explained it that way?

Your statement is completely ignorant, which is the same level as the rest of what you’ve proposed based on your own fallible and flawed interpretations. The Church teachings on salvation are the same as the Apostles, which handed them down to the present day, protected by the Holy Spirit.

The Church has never… let me repeat for you, since you seem to be hard headed… never taught salvation by works alone. Salvation has always been by God’s grace through faith, and works confirm faith. Isn’t faith without works dead? If faith is dead, how can it contribute to your salvation?

 

[cfrancis]

The evidence is my own personal experience and everyone else I went to school with.

Uh…I was looking for something a bit more authoritative, such as a Church document.
Following your reasoning, from my personal experience and those with whom I attended 12 years of Catholic school, the Catholic Church taught pre-marital sex (fornication) was a contact sport.

 

[justasking4]

Why? The Jews fall into the same criteria you set forth: deny the Trinity and Christ.

And yes, as I believe there is only one God - a basic Christian belief - they - any non-Catholic religion - are worshipping the one God, but only one (or more) aspect of God, not the fullness of God. It is in the nature of God-created man to seek Him out and worship Him.

So, do Jews and Muslims worship a different god?

Jews also do not worship the same God as Christians since they deny that Christ is God. To deny that is to deny the Trinity which is foundational to Christian belief.

 

[cfrancis]

Jews also do not worship the same God as Christians since they deny that Christ is God. To deny that is to deny the Trinity which is foundational to Christian belief.

No, to say someone worships a different God is to say there is more than one God.
To say someone worships the same God, but only a shadow of the fullness of God Christians know, is to recognize there is only one God and that God placed a yearning to know Him on every heart He created.

 

[ron77nyc]

Your statement is completely ignorant, which is the same level as the rest of what you’ve proposed based on your own fallible and flawed interpretations. The Church teachings on salvation are the same as the Apostles, which handed them down to the present day, protected by the Holy Spirit.

The Church has never… let me repeat for you, since you seem to be hard headed… never taught salvation by works alone. Salvation has always been by God’s grace through faith, and works confirm faith. Isn’t faith without works dead? If faith is dead, how can it contribute to your salvation?

I never heard anything about faith when I was in Catholic school. As I said before; salvation by faith was not always taught. It was on the books but not taught.

Now maybe the next time you have your prune juice try adding some metamucil.

 

[justasking4]

cfrancis;4296437]No, to say someone worships a different God is to say there is more than one God.

I speaking from their perspective. They believe in their “god” but in reality it does not exist. It is an idol as I Corinthians 8:4-7 states.

To say someone worships the same God, but only a shadow of the fullness of God Christians know,

This would not be true of those who deny the Trinity and Christ.

is to recognize there is only one God and that God placed a yearning to know Him on every heart He created.

i don’t think that eveyone wants to know God. In fact many suppress the knowledge of God. Romans 1:18-25 is clear about this.

 

[MDK]

I never heard anything about faith when I was in Catholic school. As I said before; salvation by faith was not always taught. It was on the books but not taught.

Now maybe the next time you have your prune juice try adding some metamucil.

Some people sleep in school, some don’t. Perhaps you need to apologize to the Catholic school. Besides, you are responsible for your own soul, not them.

I went to Catholic School as well, and how is it that I know better?

Yes, you’ve stayed with your flawed thinking for some reason. Have you ever told anyone that you’re interpretations are guaranteed to be infallible? Are they infallible? Why should anyone heed anything you say?

If that prune juice/metamucil combo has worked for you, let us know. It will be the first decent contribution you’ve made here.

 

[historyb]

God indeed in responsible for the Bible but surely you accept that he used human beings inspired by the Spirit to write it? Do you believe that God himself wrote the Bible?!!! and that he dropped it all beautifully printed from heaven?

No and notice I never said that. It is something Catholics have used as a Protestant myth, no Protestant believes that.

God wants to spread the Gospel but he uses us as his instruments. The OT does indeed comes from the Jews.- ALL of it! Yet some folk have removed 7 books from the OT canon - by what authority? The Church founded by Jesus Christ - the RCC - clearly had as its first leader Peter (Matt 16:18-19, Luke 22:31-32, Jn 21:15-19) You seem to believe that the catholic church to which you believe you belong is not the Church of which Peter was appointed as the first Pastor. But it is in the Bible!

If you study you will find tha those 7 books were considered extra canonical from the get go. The RCC included them back in.

We have a list of all Peter’s successors (the Vicar of Christ): Linus, Anacletus, Clement 1 (in 96 AD) Evaristus and so on throughout the centuries, 265 of them up to our present Pope Benedict XVI in unbroken succession. You cannot deny history.

I highly disagree with that list, in fact in Scriptures Paul appeals to James in Jersulam not Peter in Rome.

Do you deny that the Councils of Hippo and Carthage, held under Pope Damasus I (the 37th Pope)officially authenticated the books of scripture under the inspiration of the Spirit?

Yes I do, I deny that just because they recognized the books that that means they have authority. As you yourself have opined it was God who was the guide and nowhere has He given up His own authority

 

[cfrancis]

I speaking from their perspective. They believe in their “god” but in reality it does not exist. It is an idol as I Corinthians 8:4-7 states.

I understand their perspective, but we, as Christians, can see the truth of the matter.
Why do they worship at all?
Because God has placed a desire to know Him on the hearts of all men.
Do all men respond the same to this desire? No, not in our fallen nature.

This *[saying they worship God]*would not be true of those who deny the Trinity and Christ.

Again, there is only one God.
For example, a people who sacrifice virgins to what they perceive to be a rain god are not worshipping a virgin-hungry rain god, as that doesn’t exist.
But God exists; and these virgin-sacrificing people are His creation, and He placed on their hearts the desire to know Him.
Yet, in their fallen nature, without the grace of God, their response to that desire falls short of truth.
What they perceive is a dim shadow of the truth of God: that God is and demands justice, justice for the wrongs of man.
And they seek to meet that truth as their intellect allows.

i don’t think that eveyone wants to know God. In fact many suppress the knowledge of God. Romans 1:18-25 is clear about this.

How can you suppress that which you do not have. You’re right: many people suppress that desire that would lead them to Truth; but that desire is still there, and it will be filled, in this case with sex, drugs, or other vices, and not with God.

 

[justasking4]

I understand their perspective, but we, as Christians, can see the truth of the matter.
Why do they worship at all?
Because God has placed a desire to know Him on the hearts of all men.
Do all men respond the same to this desire? No, not in our fallen nature.
Again, there is only one God.
For example, a people who sacrifice virgins to what they perceive to be a rain god are not worshipping a virgin-hungry rain god, as that doesn’t exist.
But God exists; and these virgin-sacrificing people are His creation, and He placed on their hearts the desire to know Him.
Yet, in their fallen nature, without the grace of God, their response to that desire falls short of truth.
What they perceive is a dim shadow of the truth of God: that God is and demands justice, justice for the wrongs of man.
And they seek to meet that truth as their intellect allows.

How can you suppress that which you do not have. You’re right: many people suppress that desire that would lead them to Truth; but that desire is still there, and it will be filled, in this case with sex, drugs, or other vices, and not with God.

Let me ask you. Why are the Scriptures so hard in condemning idolatry? We is this intolerable before God?

 

[cfrancis]

Let me ask you. Why are the Scriptures so hard in condemning idolatry? We is this intolerable before God?

Because it is giving to something or someone that which is reserved for God alone.
Is it your contention that Jews, for example, are committing idolatry?

 

[justasking4]

Because it is giving to something or someone that which is reserved for God alone.
Is it your contention that Jews, for example, are committing idolatry?

Thats a good question. I would have research this but off the top of my head i would say yes. The reason is that they are not worshipping the true God and whoever does not worship the true God is worshipping an idol.

Secondly, Jesus warned them that if they don’t believe in Him they will be condmened.

 

[cfrancis]

Thats a good question. I would have research this but off the top of my head i would say yes. The reason is that they are not worshipping the true God and whoever does not worship the true God is worshipping an idol.

Here is the Catechism’s definition of idolatry:
2112 2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

I do hope you realize that I am not saying those who do not worship the fullness of God are saved; I am saying they are not necessarily lost.

Secondly, Jesus warned them that if they don’t believe in Him they will be condmened.

I wholeheartedly agree with this; perhaps the issue between us is whne/how this must happen.
This discussion stemmed from the issue of those who have never heard the gospel.

 

[Lampo]

How is believing the Scriptures to be inspired-inerrant and the sole authority a non biblical tradition of men?

Because the doctrine of sola scriptura is not found in the Scriptures, thus un-Biblical. It is a relatively new idea developed by men.

Secondly, when Jesus defended His teachings or engaged Satan what did He use?

Your questions isn’t even deserving of a “nice try.” Neither the Church nor the Bible as we have it today were in existence while Jesus was alive.

 

[justasking4]

cfrancis;4296678]Here is the Catechism’s definition of idolatry:
2112 2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

I do hope you realize that I am not saying those who do not worship the fullness of God are saved; I am saying they are not necessarily lost.

Would you agree that an idol can be more than a physical object but also a false belief about God? For example many non-Christians claim to be believe in God but upon further investigation its not the God of Scripture. Do you think this is an idol also?

I wholeheartedly agree with this; perhaps the issue between us is whne/how this must happen.
This discussion stemmed from the issue of those who have never heard the gospel.

Perhaps. I’m one who believes that you must have certain facts to believe to be saved while others think not. What do you think?