Sola Scriptura Is Not God's Plan - An Argument

[Randy_Carson]

Adapted from “Why Be Catholic” - a talk by James Akin

If it is truly God’s plan for people to come to the knowledge of salvation and form their theology via sola Scriptura, then it should be something the average Christian can easily implement. Otherwise, sola Scriptura is simply something for the Christian elite, the Christian illuminati, and not something to be used by the common masses which could have no hope of putting it into practice. To the contrary, average Christians should not try to implement sola Scriptura, for they would certainly go wrong. Instead, they should listen only to the sola Scriptura elite for their information about what the “Bible only” says. Here’s why.

sola Scriptura presupposes or assumes a number of things in order for it to be practical or workable. If it is to be used by the average Christian in world, then the following basic requirements have to be met:

1. The existence of the printing press: Without this, there is no way one can make enough Bibles for people to do the kind of in-depth study needed to form theology.
2. The universal distribution of Bibles: Merely having access to a Bible occasionally and for short periods of time is not adequate for study, reflection, and testing of ideas. One needs a personal copy of the Bible.
3. Universal literacy: Merely hearing Scripture read cannot substitute for the detailed reading and re-reading or the word studies one needs to do in order to be a competent exegete. One must be able to read the Bible for oneself.
4. Universal possession of or access to scholarly support materials: Without commentaries, language tools, theological dictionaries, etc., any attempt to do serious theology is going to go hopelessly off course. To do serious theology, one must either own or have easy access to good scholarly support materials.
5. Universal possession of adequate leisure time for study: It does no good to have all the tools for Bible study if one must spend all one’s time working in the fields trying to eke out a starvation diet for oneself and one’s family. One must have sufficient leisure time to do serious, in-depth Bible study.
6. Universal nutrition: Though it isn’t pleasant to think about, people’s brains just don’t work right if they aren’t nourished properly. Children who are malnourished grow up to have all kinds of cognitive problems. One must be fed correctly if one is going to think correctly.
7. Universal education in critical thinking skills: People must be trained to recognize good arguments from bad, to spot logical fallacies, to weigh evidence, and to test propositions from multiple points of view. One must have solid training in critical thinking skills in order to undertake the study of theology responsibly.

Needless to say, the average citizen of the world today does not meet all seven of these presuppositions that sola Scriptura makes. Much less the average person over the entire course of world history.

In fact, assumption #1 did not become true until very recently. The printing press was only invented in the 1450s, shortly before the Protestant Reformation. Three quarters of Church history as it now stands had already passed under the bridge before the first assumption of sola Scriptura was even met.

Because the practical assumptions required by sola Scriptura are not now met, nor ever have been met by the average Christian in world history, we must conclude that sola Scriptura is not God’s design for how the average Christian in world history is to learn his theology. Put simply, sola Scriptura is not God’s plan.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yep!

 

[Reformed1]

Adapted from “Why Be Catholic” - a talk by James Akin

If it is truly God’s plan for people to come to the knowledge of salvation and form their theology via sola Scriptura, then it should be something the average Christian can easily implement. Otherwise, sola Scriptura is simply something for the Christian elite, the Christian illuminati, and not something to be used by the common masses which could have no hope of putting it into practice. To the contrary, average Christians should not try to implement sola Scriptura, for they would certainly go wrong. Instead, they should listen only to the sola Scriptura elite for their information about what the “Bible only” says. Here’s why.

sola Scriptura presupposes or assumes a number of things in order for it to be practical or workable. If it is to be used by the average Christian in world, then the following basic requirements have to be met:

1. The existence of the printing press: Without this, there is no way one can make enough Bibles for people to do the kind of in-depth study needed to form theology.
2. The universal distribution of Bibles: Merely having access to a Bible occasionally and for short periods of time is not adequate for study, reflection, and testing of ideas. One needs a personal copy of the Bible.
3. Universal literacy: Merely hearing Scripture read cannot substitute for the detailed reading and re-reading or the word studies one needs to do in order to be a competent exegete. One must be able to read the Bible for oneself.
4. Universal possession of or access to scholarly support materials: Without commentaries, language tools, theological dictionaries, etc., any attempt to do serious theology is going to go hopelessly off course. To do serious theology, one must either own or have easy access to good scholarly support materials.
5. Universal possession of adequate leisure time for study: It does no good to have all the tools for Bible study if one must spend all one’s time working in the fields trying to eke out a starvation diet for oneself and one’s family. One must have sufficient leisure time to do serious, in-depth Bible study.
6. Universal nutrition: Though it isn’t pleasant to think about, people’s brains just don’t work right if they aren’t nourished properly. Children who are malnourished grow up to have all kinds of cognitive problems. One must be fed correctly if one is going to think correctly.
7. Universal education in critical thinking skills: People must be trained to recognize good arguments from bad, to spot logical fallacies, to weigh evidence, and to test propositions from multiple points of view. One must have solid training in critical thinking skills in order to undertake the study of theology responsibly.

Needless to say, the average citizen of the world today does not meet all seven of these presuppositions that sola Scriptura makes. Much less the average person over the entire course of world history.

In fact, assumption #1 did not become true until very recently. The printing press was only invented in the 1450s, shortly before the Protestant Reformation. Three quarters of Church history as it now stands had already passed under the bridge before the first assumption of sola Scriptura was even met.

Because the practical assumptions required by sola Scriptura are not now met, nor ever have been met by the average Christian in world history, we must conclude that sola Scriptura is not God’s design for how the average Christian in world history is to learn his theology. Put simply, sola Scriptura is not God’s plan.

Randy,

Your major premise, that SS “presupposes” the above list of seven (7) items is false.

For example; it is possible for SS to be true if only one copy of the scriptures existed, even without the possibility of making copies. Nothing in SS hints at there being enough Bibles available for an "in-depth"study.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy,

Your major premise, that SS “presupposes” the above list of seven (7) items is false.

For example; it is possible for SS to be true if only one copy of the scriptures existed, even without the possibility of making copies. Nothing in SS hints at there being enough Bibles available for an "in-depth"study.

Well, I’ll take that up with Jimmy Akin who gave this talk, but I’m having a hard time understanding how I can rely on the Bible Alone for my faith if you have the one Bible that exists and won’t share it with me. I would still be dependent upon the fallible interpretations or memories of those who had gotten a glimpse at its pages.

I think Mr. Akin’s point was that God had something better in mind when he told the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, and writing down the scriptures was not foremost in his mind. The gospel has been spread by a reliable, teaching Church for 2,000 years by word of mouth.

Even today in third world countries, the poor and the illiterate must rely on the Church to proclaim the good news. However, that gospel will be dramatically different depending upon which American congregation has funded the missionaries, and I have read witnesses from missionaries who spoke of the competition for converts among the poor in Central America.

This is not “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”. This is denominationalism - the inevitable fruit of sola scriptura.

 

[Church_Militant]

Randy,

Your major premise, that SS “presupposes” the above list of seven (7) items is false.

For example; it is possible for SS to be true if only one copy of the scriptures existed, even without the possibility of making copies. Nothing in SS hints at there being enough Bibles available for an "in-depth"study.

Yet if that is the case, then since there might be only one copy, then it becomes plain that the church is the authoritative instrument left behind by Christ and not the Bible since it cannot be used and read by every believer and therefor is not essential to belief and salvation.

This would then substantiate the premise that the early church is where the Gospel was and their oral teaching was all that was needed for faith and salvation.

It follows then that the same remains true today, as proved by the places where literacy is very low and or translations of the Bible in that vernacular language is not available. If a person cannot read the Bible, and yet can come to saving faith through some believer’s faith sharing, then the whole premise of SS collapses.

 

[Unitas]

Sola scriptura disproves itself:

Scripture is the final authority: Whatever doctrine is contained within scripture is true, whichever doctrine is not contained within scripture is false.

The sola scriptura doctrine cannot be found within scripture; scripture makes no such claim to be the final authority.

By definition, since sola scriptura is not found within scripture, it must be false.

 

[roblrich]

Sola Scriptura, something I don’t believe most protestants even realize is the basis of their faith.

One might ask a protestant why followers of God/Christains no longer have to practice circumcision. As my father would preach (Southern Baptist minister), it says so in Acts 15, beginning with the 9th verse. So the protestants would use the scriptures to believe this.

But they would make no mention that also in Acts 15 it states that a man of earth decided this issue, not Christ. It was PETER, the first Bishop/Pope of Rome that issued this declaration in the very first Council of it’s kind, and then James (then the bishop of Jerusalem) went on in Acts 15 to pretty much say,“Peter the leader of the church has spoken and let’s make it so”.

So if protestants don’t believe that Peter was the first leader of the Catholic Church and made a proper ruling that baptism is to replace circumcision, then why don’t protestants still practice the necessity of circumcision? If they rely on Acts 15 for this, then they must also realize that Peter was our first leader of the church who we needed infallible guidance from.

This among many, many other examples is why I converted from baptist and came home to the true faith, the Roman Catholic Church. I am no theology scholar, but I do understand that God would not allow his church to go into a new direction from the hi-jacking of a few protestors (protestants) after approx 1500 years.

Why do people think that there are approx 30,000 protestant denominations? Because they have no leadership and direction! They have nothing to guide them but an incomplete Bible they use since their lead protestor tossed aside several books of the Bible that he a mere man did not agree with or could not personally follow.

And to begin with, what organization does protestants think authorized the books of the Bible as devine and the word of God? Their scriptures’ (although incomplete if they use KJV) were all authorized by the Catholic Church, the only reason they even have them.

Before one can intelligently be honest about this issue, one must put aside his prejudices, put aside the way one was raised, as it is irrelevant! They must folllow and understand the history of Christainity and ask themselves if they want to continue to gamble with their eternal souls, just because converting and believing the truth may be inconvenient. It would make them, as very arrogant and prideful people, look meek changing their faith.

It took me almost 47 years to find the truth. Yea, I’m a little slow, but at least I found it and wasn’t arrogant or too prideful to do something about it.

 

[Reformed1]

If a person cannot read the Bible, and yet can come to saving faith through some believer’s faith sharing, then the whole premise of SS collapses.

How does having someone preach collapse the premise of SS? What, in your opinion, is the premise of SS?

It sounds like you have no understanding of what SS is.

 

[ForwardProgress]

Because of the reasons in the first post, this is why protestants ‘contract’ out this learning and studying to a preacher-man. They just go and get the cliffs notes from him/her. As a Catholic, I can say this, as my ‘preacher man’ doesn’t get a nice salary from my donation to the church.

On second thought, this post seems kind of rude…the point being that its hard for average Joe Christian to ‘get it right’. We aren’t reading a cute little short story here!

 

[kaycee]

Sola Scriptura, something I don’t believe most protestants even realize is the basis of their faith.

One might ask a protestant why followers of God/Christains no longer have to practice circumcision. As my father would preach (Southern Baptist minister), it says so in Acts 15, beginning with the 9th verse. So the protestants would use the scriptures to believe this.

But they would make no mention that also in Acts 15 it states that a man of earth decided this issue, not Christ. It was PETER, the first Bishop/Pope of Rome that issued this declaration in the very first Council of it’s kind, and then James (then the bishop of Jerusalem) went on in Acts 15 to pretty much say,“Peter the leader of the church has spoken and let’s make it so”.

James was head of the council and gave his approval of what Peter said. Your reading modern day RCC theology into scripture that was not there. Peter was sent by James and the Jerusalem church on a fact finding mission. Does todays Bishop of Jerusalem send the Pope anywhere? Paul states that Peter was sent to the Jews as Paul was sent to the gentiles. Peter calls himself “one of the elders”, not THE elder.

So if protestants don’t believe that Peter was the first leader of the Catholic Church and made a proper ruling that baptism is to replace circumcision, then why don’t protestants still practice the necessity of circumcision? If they rely on Acts 15 for this, then they must also realize that Peter was our first leader of the church who we needed infallible guidance from.

The correct judgement makes him the Pope and Infallible?

Why do people think that there are approx 30,000 protestant denominations?

PLEASE, if you care to be taken seriously, please stop using the ridiculous, silly figures?
The same source also lists 2 or 3 hundred catholic churches!

And to begin with, what organization does protestants think authorized the books of the Bible as devine and the word of God? Their scriptures’ (although incomplete if they use KJV) were all authorized by the Catholic Church, the only reason they even have them.

Scripture was God-Breathed and already inspired while the ink was still wet. The church just received and recognized the authentic teaching of the Apostles. The church just formally recognized what was already in practice since the time of the Apostles.

 

[sandusky]

Randy Carson:

Because the practical assumptions required by sola Scriptura are not now met, nor ever have been met by the average Christian in world history, we must conclude that sola Scriptura is not God’s design for how the average Christian in world history is to learn his theology. Put simply, sola Scriptura is not God’s plan.

Here is an excerpted statement from Augustine:You ought to notice particularly and store in your memory that God wanted to lay a firm foundation in the Scriptures against treacherous errors, a foundation against which no one dares to speak who would in any way be considered a Christian. For when He offered Himself to them to touch, this did not suffice Him unless He also confirmed the heart of the believers from the Scriptures, for He foresaw that the time would come when we would not have anything to touch but would have something to read.From: In Epistolam Johannis tractus, 2. (See NPNF Series I, VII: 469.).

 

[ldv]

Scripture was God-Breathed and already inspired while the ink was still wet. The church just received and recognized the authentic teaching of the Apostles. The church just formally recognized what was already in practice since the time of the Apostles.

Hello,

I think the point that roblrich is trying to make is that the Catholic Church through the Holy Spirit decided which books became part of the Bible and which did not.

There are several other books that one can read that is not part of the Bible(scrow to the bottom of the page listed as other works):

newadvent.org/fathers/

Thanks,

Luiz

 

[Church_Militant]

How does having someone preach collapse the premise of SS? What, in your opinion, is the premise of SS?

It sounds like you have no understanding of what SS is.

If it is that a person can and must read the Bible and decide on their own opinionated authority what the Bible teaches then I say it collapses (logically) by the simple premise that not everyone can read it (and in fact historically literacy was even lower than today!) The idea that reading the Bible alone is all one needs to be saved and to come to correct doctrine is fallacious.

 

[Church_Militant]

Here is an excerpted statement from Augustine:You ought to notice particularly and store in your memory that God wanted to lay a firm foundation in the Scriptures against treacherous errors, a foundation against which no one dares to speak who would in any way be considered a Christian

. For when He offered Himself to them to touch, this did not suffice Him unless He also confirmed the heart of the believers from the Scriptures, for He foresaw that the time would come when we would not have anything to touch but would have something to read.From: In Epistolam Johannis tractus, 2. (See NPNF Series I, VII: 469.).That won’t wash at all.

St. Augustine also said.
“I would not believe in the Gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not influence me to do so.”
Against the letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D.

 

[BrianH]

If it is that a person can and must read the Bible and decide on their own opinionated authority what the Bible teaches then I say it collapses (logically) by the simple premise that not everyone can read it (and in fact historically literacy was even lower than today!) The idea that reading the Bible alone is all one needs to be saved and to come to correct doctrine is fallacious.

Who said that reading the Bible is what saves you??

 

[Church_Militant]

Who said that reading the Bible is what saves you??

No one…but if you tell me that I have to depend on the Bible for all that I believe and practice and I cannot read it for some reason that sort of puts a logical damper on that path to salvation does it not?

The Early Church did not rely on the written scriptures, and the New Testament as we have it today did not exist as a canonical volume until the 3rd Century… That is historical fact.

 

[roblrich]

PLEASE, if you care to be taken seriously, please stop using the ridiculous, silly figures?

.

You’re right, my 30,000 figure was wrong. It is now estimated that there are over 33,000 protestant denominations wondering in the wilderness with no leadership or direction.

My mistake. And as posted in my initial post in this thread, I’ll admit to my mistakes.

 

[sandusky]

Church Militant:

That won’t wash at all.

St. Augustine also said.
“I would not believe in the Gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not influence me to do so.”
Against the letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D.

And if will you read all of what Augustine wrote in that piece, you will find that he is not setting the authority of the Church over against Scripture.

Elsewhere Augustine says:What more shall I teach you than what we read in the apostle? For holy Scripture fixes the rule for your doctrine, lest we dare to be wiser than we ought….Therefore, I should not teach you anything else except to expound to you the words of the Teacher.

Augustine, De bono viduitatis. 2. See NPNF, Series I, III:442.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If you follow the Sola Scriptura doctrine then Bible - and Bible onlyv- becomes the necessary formula for salvation. There is no Church, no Pope. One needs to read the Bible and with the help of the Holy Spirit interpret it correctly for himself. Now, how does one do that if there is only one Bible? The only way to discover the truth is to rely on the teachings of the one that possesses the copy. However, what ensures that this person is telling the truth (he might be incapable of correct interpretation or he might be lying - perhaps even possessed by a demon to bring people further from God). Do you think that is part of the God’s plan? So for several hundreds of years we are deceived and perhaps (as some anti-catholics will have to admit) not saved? Or would God ensure that the truth can be preached and can enter the hearts of those who do not posses a copy/ability to read etc.?

 

[BrianH]

This is the strangest thread I think I have read.
It seems that people are arguing that Protestants do not believe in the church or preaching!!
Kind of a Catholic Jack Chick!
I THINK people know better but I am not sure.