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TristanCross
Guest
Yeah, claiming over and over again, “Oh our church is true. We have apostolic succession. Look at the early church. Peter is the pope, ya know. Jesus said upon this rock…”, is not a circular argument…
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raumzeitmc2
Guest
“Furthermore, the Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ…”Yeah, claiming over and over again, “Oh our church is true. We have apostolic succession. Look at the early church. Peter is the pope, ya know. Jesus said upon this rock…”, is not a circular argument…
St. Augustine, letter 185:50
newadvent.org/fathers/1102185.htm
LOL!
“The way we came to know love was that he laid down his life for us; so we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.”
1 John 3:16
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rinnie
Guest
Funny according to the Bible the Church is the authority on scripture. Scripture can only be taught by certain teachers chosen by Christ that have the power of the HS to define scripture.
Tell me where do you get your authority? The teachers in my CHurch got it straight from Apostolic succession by the laying of hand through Holy ORders. How about your teachers.
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rinnie
Guest
But how about having the CHurch who has authority from God to teach and quote scripture. How about a CHurch that has not only written teachings but oral teaching taught straight from God. How about what the bible says stick with Traditon and written. How bout that?
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Lapey
Guest
Wow, you are good…if I could only read the word of God I could have seen that.
Answer the questiona as I asked them or don’t answer them at at. If you don’t know how, then say you don’t.
It’s easy to be of your tradition, and it is most deffinitely a tradition of men. This belief is not new but it is worn out. You don’t have to learn scripture to use your arguments, just verses.
Learning scripture is so much more than memorizing verses, anyone can do that, ie Hagee.
You cannot find any Roman Catholic doctrine or dogma that is contrary to scripture, maybe contrary to your belief of what scripture means, but not contrary to scripture. You keep repeating the church does not believe scripture to be the truth, and you have no evidence except for repeating the same verse over and over again with your interprtation as gospel, then you acuse me of being a follower of a false gospel.
How arrogant can one be? I take offence to the way you use scripture as tools of war, you do not know scripture, you know a book. You reduce the word of God to a weapon against me and the Church, and therefore against Christ!
Now address my points I addressed to you, if you can.
Where and why can the term “anti-christ” be found in the bible???
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Lapey
Guest
This one is easy, I’ll use your argument. It’s in the scriptures so its not circular.Yeah, claiming over and over again, “Oh our church is true. We have apostolic succession. Look at the early church. Peter is the pope, ya know. Jesus said upon this rock…”, is not a circular argument…
If its truth its truth…no rocket science here. WHo had the last word at the council of Jerusalem? Hey you got it correct, Peter!
If you are not circumcised, thank the first Pope!!!
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DD2007
Guest
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DD2007
Guest
Peter himself explained the imagery of the word stone:
1 Peter 2:4-8 ESV 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” 7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,” 8 and“ A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Rome has done a gross injustice with their exegesis of Matthew 16:18-19
The keys to the kingdom are simply a sign of authoity linked to the Davidic line in which Jesus is the final Davidic king who here gives the keys to Peter and by extension the other apostles as we see in John 20 to declare who is bound by sin or loosed from it in regard to the instructions of God’s word… It must be understood in the context of Matthew 18:15-20 where Jesus gives specific instructions on order to the apostles and that they have the power to declare if a person is still bound in their sins or has been loosed from them by the grace of God received by faith in Jesus Christ.
Matthew 18:15-20 ESV
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
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coolduude
Guest
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DD2007
Guest
Also, it is not circular reasoning to believe the bible is true based on many factors and from the bible learn that Christ himself declared the bible to be true and then realize you believe the bible is true based on the testimony of Christ made by the witness of the apostles.
In truth the real reason one believes the bible is true and other spiritual things of faith is because of the internal witness of the Holy Spirit all other factors just simply support that primary witness. But unbelievers won’t hear of that…
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
In truth the real reason one believes the bible is true and other spiritual things of faith is because of the internal witness of the Holy Spirit all other factors just simply support that primary witness. But unbelievers won’t hear of that…
1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
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DD2007
Guest
Co-mediatrix, and the immaculate conception are not in scripture.
Praying to anything other than God in faith is anti-scriptural.
The biblical term for antichirst in first John is not what people are refering to when they say the office of the pope is “antichrist” when people say that they mean that that office is against what Christ actually is and is opposed to what he taught a Christian should be.
The Church claims he is infallible, blasphemously calls him “holy father” , treats him as if he were christ. The entire thing is in actuallity “anti-christ”. It does not mean he is the anti-christ but holds an anti christian office.
Read this:
amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-Articles-TotalOnslaught-ThePopeIsGodOnThisEarth.html
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DD2007
Guest
1 Peter 2:9 ESV
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
Our leaders are chosen by the church (believers in Christ) and hands are layed on them in ordination as has always been.
All leaders are subject to the divine authoity of the word of God and we use it to make sure they teach the truth. That is why we had a reformation. Rome wasn’t teaching the truth.
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Religio71
Guest
Actually they are, you and many others just don’t get it. Just like how you think sola scriptura is in the Bible, yet we and the rest of apostolic Christianity don’t see it.
What does pray mean? Does it mean worship?
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DD2007
Guest
Hyperdulia is latria in practice. Statues are bowed to. Deceased creatures are prayed repetitively to in faith that they can hear your prayers in an attempt to coax them into attempting to move God to act in a blasphemous display of a lack of faith in the Son of God who told us to pray to the Father and said that anything we ask in his name we would receive, because the will of God is always done and to ask in Christ is to ask on the will because Christ is in the will. Christians are adopted children of God and have direct access to the father through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
If the Holy Spirit meant there is one mediator and a mediatrix and a bunch of spirits to pray for you he would have said so.
To whom shall all flesh come? To him who hears prayers. Will all flesh come to Mary? No.
Psalm 65:2 ESV
2 O you who hear prayer,
to you shall all flesh come.
Here is what John was told when he tried to worship a creature.
Revelation 19:10 ESV
10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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Religio71
Guest
I didn’t ask for your misrepresentation and total misunderstanding of Catholic practice. I asked a simple question. You said that we’re not to pray to anyone other than God. I asked, what is the definition of pray? Simple.
Here are a few more questions.
-What does “mediatrix” mean according to Catholics that use that term?
-When I ask my roommate to pray for me before an exam, does that detract from Jesus’ role as mediator?
-Does the Holy Spirit only “say” things in Scripture?
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raumzeitmc2
Guest
This has nothing to do with the fact of a hierarchy having authority to teach.
Timothy was a celibate Catholic bishop in communion with all the churches, including the great Church at Rome which St. Paul praised (Rom. 1:8).
And the immoral reformers were faithful?!! Please!
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Convert66
Guest
Seventh Day Adventist???
What would John MacArthur think?
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freedomwriter
Guest
Amen too that! All that other stuff they use to try to support their response is plain foolishness. It has already been debunked
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Des
Guest
Correct. One can say a badge equips a police officer to perform all of his police duties. Does it mean no training, no fire arms, no handcuffs, no baton, no police car, etc. etc.? Hell no.
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raumzeitmc2
Guest
The Catholic Church claims to be the true Church. That fact alone suffices to prove the exegesis I gave of 2 Tim. is in accord with Catholic teaching.
Do you really suppose that Chrysostom had no more authority than his congregation??
Chrysostom simply means here that there is a *sense *in which all properly catechized CATHOLICS who remain in the Church and are faithful to her teachings may be called “man of God,” just as there is a sense that all men may be called “gods.” But that by no means implies they have the authority to teach, correct, or excommunicate, which power is reserved only for Catholic Bishops or those whom they might designate.
This is utterly false! This is not at all what Chrysostom is saying! You are completely misunderstanding his words.
You clearly haven’t read much of the Fathers writings, or you wouldn’t come to such absurd and erroneous conclusions. The fact is, all these people whom the Fathers are addressing have been* properly catechized* and are members of the Catholic Church. The have been already instructed in the faith. Nowhere will you find the Fathers permitting the laity to decide for themselves what they will or will not believe!
And are you unaware that, were you living in the age of the Fathers, you too would have live under, and be obedient to their authority?
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