Sola Scriptura is True

[adstrinity]

Thank you for that, BillPick. I’m glad that the SS argument is defeated once and for all and that those who adhere to it will humbly accept that SS is false and not still make a case for the false teaching.

This thread can now be locked. …Though, I still want to know the objections to the Athiest.

 

[Bill_Pick]

No. It is clear from the text of the New Testament that apostolic writings were being received as scripture while the apostles were still on earth. That’s why they were being written. Peter says the writings of Paul were scripture.

2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV
15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Here Peter clearly says thhat the writings of Paul are scripture and warns people not to twist them which is a clear indication that they were being studied in detail as scriputre even in apostolic times.

They had the Book of Peter.the book os Mary and mant other going around but their do not put the Bibal together untie 300 or 400 years layer I tjingk we had the gosle of Janas

 

[E.E.N.S]

It claims it was …

Where does the New Testament claim its own inspiritaion? Where is the inspired table of contents? Even if these existed, how could a writing claim its own inspiration and carry any real authority?

 

[Callin]

There aren’t any writings by a prophet or apostle that isn’t in the bible. The Jews and the CHurch received all of them and held them as scripture.

What about 1 Cor. 5:9-11, where Paul mentions a previous letter he wrote to Corinth?

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one.

 

[LilyM]

If there is any good work you can be trained for that scripture doesn’t prepare you for is this passage true?

no.

Sola Scriptura stands. It is sufficient.

Of course the passage is still true.

If I’m a boxer, do exercises like running and skipping equip and prepare me for the work of fighting in the ring? Absolutely they do, because they give me the cardiovascular fitness and the footwork that I will need to win a boxing match.

So it is correct to say ‘running and skipping will equip you to be a successful boxer’

Are they ALL the training that I need? Of course not. I need to learn how to throw and avoid punches among other things. So it is INcorrect to say ‘you only need to run and skip to be a successful boxer’.

Important distinction that you’re glossing over.

 

[DD2007]

It amazes me how roman catholics, liberal protestanst, and athiests love to team up and try to convince the world falsely that God’s written word isn’t adequate or true.

The roman catholics do it becuse they have doctrines that they shackle their membership with that are contradicted in scriputre or not found in there at all.

The liberal protestants do it because they want to justify the unjustifiable like abortion, homosexuality, female pastors and divorce on demand.

The atheists do it because they don’t believe in God therefore they don’t believe the scriptures either.

It seems like the atheists at least admit the root cause of their attack on God’s word. The others are simply apostates that refuse to acknowledge their unbelief.

At any rate for thoose who believe the bible is true there is nothing you can do against the word every. It means what it means. and “built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles” means what it means. The truth that the church (the elect) holds up is the gospel you’ll notice that if you read the very next verse in 1 Timothy 3. Jesus Christ (the Word of God) is the truth behind all of scripture.

 

[Religio71]

It amazes me how roman catholics, liberal protestanst, and athiests love to team up and try to convince the world falsely that God’s written word isn’t adequate or true.

The roman catholics do it becuse they have doctrines that they shackle their membership with that are contradicted in scriputre or not found in there at all.

The liberal protestants do it because they want to justify the unjustifiable like abortion, homosexuality, female pastors and divorce on demand.

The atheists do it because they don’t believe in God therefore they don’t believe the scriptures either.

It seems like the atheists at least admit the root cause of their attack on God’s word. The others are simply apostates that refuse to acknowledge their unbelief.

At any rate there is nothing you can do against the word every. It means what it means. and “built on the foundation of the prophets and apostles” means what it means. The truth that the church (the elect) holds up is the gospel you’ll notice that if you read the very next verse in 1 Timothy 3. Jesus Christ (the Word of God) is the truth behind all of scripture.

He’ll never understand it. Here’s a statement:

“Eyes are God given and are profitable, that man will be equipped in every situation”. Eyes are great for every situation, but they aren’t the ONLY thing you need. You may need hands, you may need a computer, etc. Until you can understand the English language and realize that “every” does not mean “only”, and that Scripture is applicable to all good works, but it isn’t the ONLY thing needed in those works, you should just go back to CARM. This is really simple to understand. And God’s word isn’t limited to the Bible. That’s not even in the Bible either. So much for that.

 

[raumzeitmc2]

If all we need is Scripture, then why do we have so many conflicting teachings emerged from those who follow SS? Just look, for example, at how the Reformers disagreed among themselves over the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Calvin utterly opposed Luther’s teaching on this, saying,

“For what else is the adorable sacrament of Luther but an idol set up in the temple of God?”

Calvin to Martin Bucer, June 1549.

Letters of John Calvin: compiled from the original manuscripts and edited with historical notes,Jean Calvin; Jules Bonnet; David Constable; Marcus Robert Gilchrist, Philadelphia, Presbyterian Board of Publication, 1857, vol. 2, p. 220.

books.google.com/books?id=tlUYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA220&dq=%22what+else+is+the+adorable+sacrament+of+Luther+but+an+idol+set+up+in+the+temple+of+god%22&lr=#v=onepage&q=%22what%20else%20is%20the%20adorable%20sacrament%20of%20Luther%20but%20an%20idol%20set%20up%20in%20the%20temple%20of%20god%22&f=false

And Calvin wasn’t alone in his opposition to Luther’s teaching. The so-called Sacramentarians also opposed Luther’s teaching on the Real Presence, despite Luther’s claims of infallibility. As might be expected, Luther wasted no time in turning his pen against these “fanatics”:

For as soon as Christ says: ‘This is my body,’ his body is present through the Word and the power of the Holy Spirit. If the Word is not there, it is mere bread; but as soon as the words are added they bring with them that of which they speak. Moreover, we believe that Christ, according to his human nature, is put over all creatures [Eph. 1:22] and fill all things, as Paul says in Eph. 4 :10]. Not only according to his divine nature, but also according to his human nature, he is lord of all things, has all things in his hand and is present everywhere. …

Now because the fanatics do not see this, they come up with their man-made opinion to the effect that God is thereby performing some kind of hocus-pocus.

The Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ –Against the Fanatics, 1526.

Luther’s Works, vol. 36: Word and Sacrament II, Abdel Ross Wentz, ed., Fortress Press, Philadelphia, ISBN 0800603362, pp. 341-343.

books.google.com/books?q=luther%20%20%22performing%20some%20kind%20of%20hocus-pocus%22&hl=en&lr=&filter=0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wp

Now all of these people claimed they were only following the “clear” teaching of Scripture. Yet they came to very different conclusions as to what Scripture meant. So how then, in such a situation, does one determine who is right by using Scripture alone?

And more fundamentally, who even has the right to make such a final determination to begin with? And how, using SS, could it ever be made binding on the whole Church?

 

[DD2007]

He’ll never understand it. Here’s a statement:

“Eyes are God given and are profitable, that man will be equipped in every situation”. Eyes are great for every situation, but they aren’t the ONLY thing you need. You may need hands, you may need a computer, etc. Until you can understand the English language and realize that “every” does not mean “only”, and that Scripture is applicable to all good works, but it isn’t the ONLY thing needed in those works, you should just go back to CARM. This is really simple to understand. And God’s word isn’t limited to the Bible. That’s not even in the Bible either. So much for that.

You do understand that I am using the same hermeneutic you are supposed to be using when you exeget John chapter 6, right?

You guys have fought that the word is means is for centuries. We believe the word every means every. You discount the hermeneutic you lose the doctrine of transubstantiation.

 

[Religio71]

You do understand that I am using the same hermeneutic you are supposed to be using when you exeget John chapter 6, right?

You guys have fought that the word is means is for centuries. We believe the word every means every. You discount the hermeneutic you lose the doctrine of transubstantiation.

what is your point? Is means is. Yes.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Scripture IS breathed out by God, IS profitable for teaching, reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. With Scripture, we ARE equipped for every good work. That does not equal sufficiency, or that the Bible is all we need. Again, here is a simple analogy that shows exactly what these verses mean in plain english: Having eyes equips us for everything we do every day. However, eyes are not all that we need. Sometimes, we need things in addition to eyes, that are also given of God, such as hands, feet, nose, etc. Likewise, that passage clearly teaches that Scripture equips us for every good work. However, there is no logical progression to sufficiency. And again, the Bible never says that the word of God is only found in it.

Catholic Answers take:

t this point the missionary probably will bring up one of several verses. The passage most commonly brought up by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists is 2 Timothy 3:16–17. In the King James Version, the verse reads this way: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is “profitable” (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is “sufficient”—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means.

Point out that the context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, “But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = “God-breathed”), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, “Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” (RSV), and “. . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the “pattern” for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as “profitable” for Timothy’s ministry.

The few other verses that might be brought up to “prove” the sufficiency of Scripture can be handled the same way. Not one uses the word “sufficient”—each one implies profitability or usefulness, and many are given at the same time as an exhortation to hold fast to the oral teaching of our Lord and the apostles. The thing to keep in mind is that nowhere does the Bible say, “Scripture alone is sufficient,” and nowhere does the Bible imply it.

 

[Religio71]

You do understand that I am using the same hermeneutic you are supposed to be using when you exeget John chapter 6, right?

You guys have fought that the word is means is for centuries. We believe the word every means every. You discount the hermeneutic you lose the doctrine of transubstantiation.

Also, please read carefully what we have been saying. Every means every. Scripture is profitable and that with Scripture we are equipped for EVERY good work. Yes, we are equipped for every good work. Every does not mean only, which is what you are implying. So again, scripture equips us for every good work, but that does not mean it is all that we need. That “something else” is not replacing scripture, but is in addition to it. It is very simple to understand.

 

[DD2007]

Where is that in the Bible? Where is it that:

1. There are two peoples in the world?
2. Those two peoples are those who believe and those who don’t?
3. Those two peoples in number 2) correspond with Hell bound and Heaven bound?
4. Those two peoples in number 2) correstpond with God’s children and children of the devil?

Matthew 13:30 ESV
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

John 8:42-47 ESV
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

Romans 9:22-23 ESV
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

2 Peter 3:7 ESV
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Ephesians 2:1-10 ESV
2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body [1] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But [2] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Incidentally, I like what the Athiest had to say. I’d like to know your answers to those objections.

Posts 49 & 56

 

[DD2007]

Also, please read carefully what we have been saying. Every means every. Scripture is profitable and that with Scripture we are equipped for EVERY good work. Yes, we are equipped for every good work. Every does not mean only, which is what you are implying. So again, scripture equips us for every good work, but that does not mean it is all that we need. That “something else” is not replacing scripture, but is in addition to it. It is very simple to understand.

Every good work means every good work. If something makes you equiped for everything then it is sufficient for anything. This scripture is sufficient. If there is anything else you need then it does not equip you for everything you need.

The scriputre is clear that it equips you for every good work. This it teaches it is sufficient and nothing else is needed.

Also since it does equip you for every GOOD work then if you are taught a work from some other source that isn;t in scriputre that work CANNOT be good. So, scripture nowhere says we are to pray to saints. Thus praying to saints isn’t a good work.

 

[nsper7]

You do understand that I am using the same hermeneutic you are supposed to be using when you exeget John chapter 6, right?

You guys have fought that the word is means is for centuries. We believe the word every means every. You discount the hermeneutic you lose the doctrine of transubstantiation.

You are not using the same hermeneutic, you are just being foolish. When Jesus says in John 6 about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, we take that literally (transubstantiation).

In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, we take that literally as well.

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness Catholics would agree on this. All of Scriptured is inspired (“breathed out by God”) and profitable for teaching, reproof, etc.; however, it never says ONLY Scripture is inspired, profitable, etc., nor does it say All Scripture…is sufficient. Profitable means it is good and so is healthy food, but food alone (without water, medicine, etc.) will not keep you healthy.

17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Notice the word MAY. It is not saying that the person WILL be competent, but MAY be competent, just like a person eating healthy food MAY be healthy, but not necessarily WILL be healthy (esp. if they don’t drink water, etc.). The equipped for every good work connects to the MAY and competent as well.

Thus, this verse points to two things contradictory to SS:

1. All Scripture is inspired and proftable, but not only Scripture and it is never said to be sufficient
2. A person reading Scripture may be competent and equipped for every good work, but there is guarantee

Now, the fact that Protties keep arguing this passage even though it has been refuted numerous times just goes to show that, by Scripture alone, there is guarantee of competency.

 

[Religio71]

Every good work means every good work. If something makes you equiped for everything then it is sufficient for anything. This scripture is sufficient. If there is anything else you need then it does not equip you for everything you need.

The scriputre is clear that it equips you for every good work. This it teaches it is sufficient and nothing else is needed.

Also since it does equip you for every GOOD work then if you are taught a work from some other source that isn;t in scriputre that work CANNOT be good. So, scripture nowhere says we are to pray to saints. Thus praying to saints isn’t a good work.

No, this is where your logic fails. If something makes you equipped for everything, that doesn’t mean it is all you need, or that something else (in addition to that initial thing) can make you more equipped.

Answer this: With our eyes, we are equipped for every situation we encounter every day. Are eyes all we need in every situation?

 

[DD2007]

what is your point? Is means is. Yes.

Scripture IS breathed out by God, IS profitable for teaching, reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. With Scripture, we ARE equipped for every good work. That does not equal sufficiency:

In what world? If you ARE equipped for EVERY good work then you are sufficiently equipped. For every GOOD work, mind you. That is sufficient teaching from God as only he is good.

 

[Religio71]

also, the evangelicals can never show us where the word of God is only contained in the Bible.

 

[DD2007]

No, this is where your logic fails. If something makes you equipped for everything, that doesn’t mean it is all you need,

Actually, yes it does. Think about it for a minute.

Answer this: With our eyes, we are equipped for every situation we encounter every day. Are eyes all we need in every situation?

Your eyes serve a different purpose than scripture. This passage gives the purpose of scripture.

2 Timothy 3: 16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Your eyes equip you to view the world around you.

They are totally different things and both are sufficient for their purposes.

 

[DD2007]

also, the evangelicals can never show us where the word of God is only contained in the Bible.

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Again, the word every means sufficient for EVERY good work. Only God is good, all good works you can do are included in scripture, thus if something isn’t in scripture it isn;t a good work.

This passage is definitive and irrefutable.

 

[Religio71]

2 Thess 2:15

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Whoa, so we should not only hold to what is written down, but what is given by word of mouth? But what about scripture being sufficient?