Sola Scriptura is True

[Bill_Pick]

IF ITS IN THE BIBLE I WILL BELIEVE,RIGHT.

WELL THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE HAS TO SAY DO YOU AS A NON-CATHLOIC,BELIEVE IF NOT WHY

11 12 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. 13 The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
THE DOOR WAS LOCKED AND JESUS BREADTHED ON THEM

 

[Convert66]

SyCarl,

Thomas Aquinas was human and I don’t have to agree with everything that he said and did.

Granted; but, it is rather curious that every dogmatic Sola Scriptura partisan I’ve come across on these fora snips the ECF’s and Doctors of the Church to feign support for Protestant theory, but will deny that they are ALL (as in every single one of them) Catholics and will seek, as you have done, to sweep away the entirety of their theology in favor of “proof texts.” The same Scriptures that lead Aquinas to defend the Creeds as a summary of the Gospel informed him of his Marian devotion. Will you at least admit this?

As Catholic apologists are wont to point out when early writing seem to support a Protestant view, the writers are not infallible.

Not me. I freely admit that some of the ECF’s had Lutheran views on the Eucharist, for instance. What remains, however, is that they were ALL Catholic and were ready to reject a private view if it clashed with the Apostolic faith of the Church in any way. The few who did not (Origen, Tertullian, come to mind) were excommunicated.

When someone suggests that one cannot follow the bible alone and still accept the Creeds, it is useful to show that writers accepted by the Church state that the Creeds only summarize Scripture.

There’s no need to be pedantic.

That I disagree with some Catholic teachings and feel that the Church has made errors does not call for suggesting that I believe the Catholic Church is under the “devilish pagan influence of Babylon”.

Fair enough, I guess I can be something of a pedant myself.

However, what would you consider it, then, should a great theologian with such high regard for the Scriptures pray to saints, refer to Mary as the giver of graces, accept her “ever-virgin” status, etc.? Aren’t those considered by protestants to be outside of Scripture—therefore, outside of revealed Truth and pagan in origin?

All my best . . .

 

[JamesLJ]

There aren’t any writings by a prophet or apostle that isn’t in the bible. The Jews and the CHurch received all of them and held them as scripture.

I’m not going to sit here and debate with a wall, but this comment from said wall is so easily refutable that I thought I could add $.02 and then continue watching from Lurkerville, at least until I decide to put more effort into apologetics (I’m on a several-year-long hiatus from debating because I’ve never seen it bear good fruit, and so have discerned that it’s not my charism). BUT, if “there aren’t any writings by a prophet or apostle that isn’t [sic] in the bible [sic],” then where is Paul’s letter to the Laodicians mentioned in Colossians 4:16?

 

[adstrinity]

I have no intention on jumping in this thread. It is interesting to read, however.

May I make one suggestion/request?

Could you all please define “Sola Scriptura”? Right now based on this thread, I don’t know what it is. How can I evaluate whether it is true or not if I don’t know what it is?

Sola Scriptura – The belief that one needs ONLY the Bible to have a relationship with Christ and the Bible is the sole rule of one’s faith.

It amazes me how roman catholics, liberal protestanst, and athiests love to team up and try to convince the world falsely that God’s written word isn’t adequate or true.

Catholics. Just, “Catholics.” No Roman.

DD, no. We do not team up to try to convince anybody of anything. What we all in this thread, including the non-Calvinist Protestants, want is logic from you. You are taking a victim mentality that we are all against you and your "truth. You therefore gained a messiah complex, you now want to be belittled over what you believe because you believe we are of the devil and of this world and you are from God and thus, we are trying to attack you. You may even be trying to get banned so you can then have that badge of honour.

We are NOT teaming up. We do not LOVE to team up. What we want is logic. You have been asked to show logic, to connect the dots and you have not done so. You have asked by Catholics, Protestants, and Athiests, and apparenly, we are beneath you. You have been shown how your arguments are found wanting, but, this just lets you think you are right and God is on your side.

If you cannot be logical and answer the objections, then there’s no use going on.

:nope:

Most Catholics are not Christians. Some are though. I pray for you all.

Incidentally, this quote was from a different thread altogether, “Which Protestants view Catholics as non-Christian,” or something like that. I want to make sure that all the Catholics involved in this thread know how we are viewed.

No one can really understand the scriptures unless they are regenerated.

Scriptures regenerated?

 

[NotTooSmart]

Sola Scriptura – The belief that one needs ONLY the Bible to have a relationship with Christ and the Bible is the sole rule of one’s faith.

Thank you very much.

There are definitions of Sola Scriptura that I prefer to this one to be honest. In fact I am not sure that I could sign off on this one either. I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by the two phrases in that definition.

 

[Newbie2]

Thank you very much.

There are definitions of Sola Scriptura that I prefer to this one to be honest. In fact I am not sure that I could sign off on this one either. I guess it depends on what exactly you mean by the two phrases in that definition.

I prefer, Sola Scriptura=the bible as the sole authority for the rule of faith i.e. it contains no more or less than the entire revelation of God to man and that there are no other sources or authority on matters of faith.

 

[NotTooSmart]

I prefer, Sola Scriptura=the bible as the sole authority for the rule of faith i.e. it contains no more or less than the entire revelation of God to man and that there are no other sources or authority on matters of faith.

Well I’m not sure about that definition either. But with all of these definitions I would have to ask stupid questions as to what precisely they mean.

 

[Newbie2]

It seems that as far as this forum is concerned, regardless of which particular definition one prefers, Sola Scriptura is directly opposed to any Magisterial authority as in the RCC.

Which definition do you prefer, BTW?

 

[DD2007]

Do you believe that Catholics are Christian and are we going to Heaven?

I believe that the Roman Catholic Church as it exists today is an apostate organization that teaches a false gospel. It is filled with deception and the office of the pope is anti-christ. I believe it is an affront for the kingdom of satan who loves nothing better than perverting the gospel of Christ and leading people away from the truth and into bondage to false doctrines based on fear.

However, there are some cathoics that are christians. I believe they should come out of the Roman Church and join the people of God.

I agree with Dr. John Macarthur’s position below:

youtube.com/watch?v=bpWDUt89t2g

 

[rinnie]

I believe that the Roman Catholic Church as it exists today is an apostate organization that teaches a false gospel. It is filled with deception and the office of the pope is anti-christ. I believe it is an affront for the kingdom of satan who loves nothing better than perverting the gospel of Christ and leading people away from the truth and into bondage to false doctrines based on fear.

However, there are some cathoics that are christians. I believe they should come out of the Roman Church and join the people of God.

I agree with Dr. John Macarthur’s position below:

youtube.com/watch?v=bpWDUt89t2g

So what you are tying to say if I may, Is that the gates of hell prevailed and took over the RCC. Well then if this is true, either God lied to us, or you are wrong. So wrong. Also I have been a RC my whole life. I don’t recall any false doctrines based on fear, could you possibly share them with me?

 

[Bill_Pick]

I said the full written word of God. John was an apostle of God. When he spoke orally it was like listening to the prophet Isaiah. Prophets and apostles are from God that is why their writings which are God breathed are the foundation that the Church is built upon and equip us for every good work. The spoke the word of God. “Verbum Dei”.

DD2007-- Please give me your inyerpretation verse 22 this is John 20:;23-23

11 12 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. 13 The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

And then read John 6 and tell what you think of it are let me see you dance again

 

[DD2007]

I would hope that someday you recognize the validity of the arguments that are presented in this thread.

It’s the same things RCC apologetics have said for years.

I have seen nothing valid in the arguments for the RCC position against scripture and I see nothing that would bring about any reason to not believe the plain reading of the text.

1 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

 

[NotTooSmart]

It seems that as far as this forum is concerned, regardless of which particular definition one prefers, Sola Scriptura is directly opposed to any Magisterial authority as in the RCC.

Which definition do you prefer, BTW?

Since you asked…

Something to the effect of the “Bible as the sole infallible rule of faith.”

If you get more complex or detailed than that, then you have little problems like the canon of Scripture nagging at you (as has been pointed out in this thread). I think a definition like this covers the “canon of Scripture” problem.

 

[DD2007]

Since you asked…

Something to the effect of the “Bible as the sole infallible rule of faith.”

If you get more complex or detailed than that, then you have little problems like the canon of Scripture nagging at you (as has been pointed out in this thread). I think a definition like this covers the “canon of Scripture” problem.

The canon of scripture is included in Ephesians 2:20 where it clearly says that the Church is built upon the apostles and prophets.

So everything that they gave us is scripture. The text about Laodocia simply tells the corinthians to read the letter FROM laodocia. They were all sharing letters the letter at laodocia could have been the letter to the Galatians for all we know.

So, the canon is all writings of teh prophets and apostles that the church received from them. Yes, it is really that simple.

 

[DD2007]

DD2007-- Please give me your inyerpretation verse 22 this is John 20:;23-23

11 12 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. 13 The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

And then read John 6 and tell what you think of it are let me see you dance again

In the passage you provided it explains that Jesus sent the apostles into the world as his apostles, gave the Spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit) when he breathen on them. The Word of God inspiring the apostles…He gave them the ability to know and declare who was still in their sins and who was saved.

Peter also communicates the effects of this encounter to us when he explains that the apostles have the ability to write scripture inspired from God.

2 Peter 1:19-21 ESV
19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

What would you like to clear up about John 6?

 

[DD2007]

So what you are tying to say if I may, Is that the gates of hell prevailed and took over the RCC. Well then if this is true, either God lied to us, or you are wrong. So wrong. Also I have been a RC my whole life. I don’t recall any false doctrines based on fear, could you possibly share them with me?

The gates of hell hasn’t prevailed yet. That’s why people constantly are working to reform the whole church.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

That truth that it upholds is the gospel. Where the gospel is preached there is the church preaching it. Because the church is the believers in Christ.

The gospel is recorded in God’s word.

John 17:17 ESV
17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

 

[Bill_Pick]

So what you are tying to say if I may, Is that the gates of hell prevailed and took over the RCC. Well then if this is true, either God lied to us, or you are wrong. So wrong. Also I have been a RC my whole life. I don’t recall any false doctrines based on fear, could you possibly share them with me?

thats the most **** I heard in my fife. the man Macarthur is a real nut job,he is as bad as Jack Chick. He has to be the biggest bigot I head in 23 years,God bless your soul,with all the hate I can,t see how he can get to heaven, bless him

 

[rinnie]

The gates of hell hasn’t prevailed yet. That’s why people constantly are working to reform the whole church.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

That truth that it upholds is the gospel. Where the gospel is preached there is the church preaching it. Because the church is the believers in Christ.

The gospel is recorded in God’s word.

John 17:17 ESV
17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Go back read what you wrote. You said point blank that the pope is the anti-christ which is the Devil. The pope is still in the seat of Peter at the head of the RCC. SO if what you are saying is true the devil won, and took over the Catholic CHurch.’

Jesus Christ said that would not happen. You claim it did. So I will ask you again are you saying that CHrist lied to us?

 

[adstrinity]

Since you asked…

Something to the effect of the “Bible as the sole infallible rule of faith.”

And, we Catholics cannot agree with that because we do not believe the Bible to be infallible. We do not believe it cannot teach error. We believe it to be inerrant, that is, there are no errors contained within the Bible, but, it is not an easy collection of books to read and therefore, may teach error depending on the one reading it. People can be infallible, but, the Bible is inerrant.

I accept your definition for you, but, we cannot agree to it (Church preeceeded Bible) and because of that one word. …BUT, thank you for your definition. I was going to ask you, but, I thought more people should answer how they see it first, so I refrained.

 

[adstrinity]

The gates of hell hasn’t prevailed yet.

But you believe that they will?