Sola Scriptura is True

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2Tim 3:16 does NOT teach sola Scriptura. In fact, it contradicts sola Scriptura by reinforcing the idea of a teaching authority, as all the people called “men of God” in Holy Scripture were in fact, prophets annointed by God.
In 1Tim 6:11, Paul tells Timothy that he is a man of God. In his next letter, Paul tells timothy that Scripture makes the man of God (this is, Timothy himself) perfect and equipped for good work.

A complement for this, is Peter’s Epistle (1Peter 1:20) which tell us that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. The relationship between 2Tim 3:16-17 and 1Peter 1:20-21 is clear by the fact that both passages speak of Scripture and of “men of God”.

As a result, 2Tim 3:16 tells us that it is the Church Authorities (the men of God), and not christians in general, who are inspired by the Holy Spirit to know and explain the meaning of Scriptures.
An example of this practice (explaining the scriptures) is shown in Neh 8:7-8.

Therefore, protestant denominations founded on divisions and on private interpretations of the Bible were not authorized by God.
So this is your little group Bill Your right the scriptures is not for your private interpertation, Because Bill, it doesn’t belong to you… The bible is Israel’s you have no claim to it. Men of God refers to those who were ordained by those in authority back then… Therefore, protestant denominations founded on divisions and on private interpretations of the Bible were not authorized by God. your right, that is why it is Israels Bible. Don’t embarass me Bill… You know better. It is ours not yours
 
So this is your little group Bill Your right the scriptures is not for your private interpertation, Because Bill, it doesn’t belong to you… The bible is Israel’s you have no claim to it. Men of God refers to those who were ordained by those in authority back then… Therefore, protestant denominations founded on divisions and on private interpretations of the Bible were not authorized by God. your right, that is why it is Israels Bible. Don’t embarass me Bill… You know better. It is ours not yours
well…okay.

Israel’s Bible… well… not okay.:rolleyes:

.
 
The religious historian Augustus Neander wrote of the first-century Christians: “The practice of infant baptism was unknown at this period.... That not till so late a period as (at least certainly not earlier than) Irenaeus [c. 140-203C.E.], a trace of infant baptism appears, and that it first became recognised as an apostolic tradition in the course of the third century, is evidence rather against than for the admission of its apostolic origin.”—History of the Planting and Training of the Christian Church by the Apostles, 1864, p. 162.
I think at this point we’ve gotten away from the thread topic, sola scriptura. What you are doing dave is giving the Watchtower’s argument for their view of infant baptism. The problem is that there are not just Catholic but some Protestants who say that theirs is the correct understanding of what the Bible has to say on the topic. But if the Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15), why should we believe that the Church was actually in error and those whose interpretations were unheard of until the 1500s are truly the right ones?

Your historian above is one man, and his explanation is rather strained. If he thinks that Ireneaus being the first person to assert infant baptism is telling, what are we to make of the fact that nobody denied the practice as apostolic until much later? His own logic argues against him. Someone (Augustine) much closer to the time says the opposite:

What the universal Church holds, not as instituted [invented] by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond" (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24:31 [A.D. 400])

“The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic” (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).

“Cyprian was not issuing a new decree but was keeping to the most solid belief of the Church in order to correct some who thought that infants ought not be baptized before the eighth day after their birth. . . . He agreed with certain of his fellow bishops that a child is able to be duly baptized as soon as he is born” (Letters 166:8:23 [A.D. 412]).

“By this grace baptized infants too are ingrafted into his [Christ’s] body, infants who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are made alive . . . gives also the most hidden grace of his Spirit to believers, grace which he secretly infuses even into infants. . . . It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s Body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture, too. . . . If anyone wonders why children born of the baptized should themselves be baptized, let him attend briefly to this. . . . The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:9:10; 1:24:34; 2:27:43 [A.D. 412]).

So on the one hand, regarding infant baptism and a lot of other Protestant distinctives, is the Catholic interpretation of the relevant biblical passages that has clear evidence in the writings of the early Church, while the opposing view is lacking. The problem with the assumption --and that’s what it is-- that the early Church went into apostasy shortly after the apostles until the truth was rediscovered by (Luther/Calvin/Campbell/Joseph Smith/CT Russell, insert your own *de facto *pope here) is that it is contrary to what Jesus said, (Matt. 16:18) that He will build His Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

And everyone from Luther on is forced to explain why that promise doesn’t really mean what it looks like it means. But then so much for sola scriptura!

By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar… Romans 3:4 (ESV)

As I said before Dave, the beliefs of the early Church don’t have to be a mystery. But if you only avail yourself of sources the Watchtower points you to, I promise you’re not getting a full or accurate picture.

Question: Would the leaders at your local Kingdom Hall approve or disapprove of you spending a lot of time here? And why?
 
Your right the scriptures is not for your private interpertation, Because Bill, it doesn’t belong to you… The bible is Israel’s you have no claim to it. Men of God refers to those who were ordained by those in authority back then…
Those of us who believe that Jesus is Lord believe that as the Author He has the authority to entrust it to whomever He wills. And He entrusted it to His apostles and those who would succeed them: the Catholic bishops. And until someone else shows a similar level of credibility by rising from the dead, I’m going to go with that.
 
So this is your little group Bill Your right the scriptures is not for your private interpertation, Because Bill, it doesn’t belong to you… The bible is Israel’s you have no claim to it. Men of God refers to those who were ordained by those in authority back then… Therefore, protestant denominations founded on divisions and on private interpretations of the Bible were not authorized by God. your right, that is why it is Israels Bible. Don’t embarass me Bill… You know better. It is ours not yours
Please explain this to me My Father gave me this Book on Xmas and said it was for me now your telling me its does not belong to me.HELP
 
So this is your little group Bill Your right the scriptures is not for your private interpertation, Because Bill, it doesn’t belong to you… The bible is Israel’s you have no claim to it. Men of God refers to those who were ordained by those in authority back then… Therefore, protestant denominations founded on divisions and on private interpretations of the Bible were not authorized by God. your right, that is why it is Israels Bible. Don’t embarass me Bill… You know better. It is ours not yours
Don Who are the man of God:Who IS a “man of God”?

We need to remember that Timothy was a jew. When the OT says “man of God”, it speaks about a SPECIAL man, enlightened by God, generally a prophet. We must not ignore the historical context either. To whom was written a specific passage of the Bible? In this case, who is the destinatary for Paul’s epistle to Timothy? The answer is obvious.

Yes, it is scripture, so in a certain way it’s addressed to us all, BUT - it is addressed to Timothy.
This means that some situations about Timothy applied ONLY to Timothy (and other people in particular), but NOT to us. However, since they were written in the Scripture, are meant that ALL OF US accepted them. And the term “man of God”, as i will show, is one of those particular situations which have to be known by all.
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Wow. I read through all of your responses and this passage is still standing strong and hasn’t even been scratched. The reason for that is becasue you really can’t do anything with it. It means what it says and it says that ALL scripture is inspired by God and equips the man of God for EVERY GOOD WORK. You guys danced around the passage and never were able to explain away the word every or the word good or the word all. I know some tried but the language means what it means. You have no authority to change the meaning of words just because you wish you could.

So the total volume of scripture is what we need to be equipped for every good work. If there is a work to be done that scripture doesn’t equip us for it isn’t a good work. If there is a good work that scripture doesn’t equip us for then this verse simply isn’t true and the Roman Catholic teaching about the inerrancy of scripture is then false. Rock meet hard place.

So, since it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that scripture is sufficient. The Roman Catholic Church needs to Reform and get rid of all of it’s extra biblical teachings that it holds it’s members to.

If it would do that there would be unity. Guys when you find yourself presented with a passage of scripture that you don’t agree with it means you are wrong. This passage will stand forever as a refutation of any notion that Sola Scriptura isn’t ture.

So we see as demonstrated that Sola Scriptura is indeed true and Rome is in error and their best apologist on Catholic answers cannot explain away the clear meaning of the text.

The short story is. The Holy Spirit inspired scripture, not the apostle Paul. Here is what the Holy Spirit said:

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

He could have used different words but he didn’t he used the words above. They mean what they say. Many times your problems are in your hermeneutics. Just read it for what it says.
 
actually Catholics and millions of other Christians have already refuted your erroneous interpretation of the passage. You choose not to acknowledge our understanding of it, which is perfectly fine. The surface has been “scratched” and this has already been refuted. It’s an old tired argument that you bring here.
 
Sorry DD, those verses just aren’t saying what you say they are. And scripture itself says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15). You are insisting on a forced interpretation of one verse while ignoring other verses, not to mention Church history.

For all your claims that you have won this debate (starting from the initial post) you still haven’t made a case. The conflict between Catholic faith and 2 Tim. 3:16 is all in your imagination.
 
DD,

You’ve got to be kidding.

Your first mistake is to parse one verse out of context, since you ignored Paul’s admonition two verses earlier to hold fast to traditions.

But, I will now post my response for the third time–you know, the one you haven’t even made an attempt at answering:

First, your argument that “all scripture” makes the man of God competent for every good work doesn’t work, because the passage for “all scripture” is “pasa graphe” which doesn’t mean ALL but EVERY scripture. That is, for your argument to hold you would have to argue not that ALL scripture is competent for equipping the man of God, but that ANY individual and EVERY single scripture is competent to render the man of God equipped for “every good work.” That is, by your argument, one single verse out of the entire Bible would be sufficient to make one equipped for “every good work.” This means you are not arguing sola scriptura but sola John 1:1 or sola Genesis 34:2. etc.

If that’s the case, tell me how I Chronicles 1:4 is sufficient to equip you for EVERY good work?

In James 1:4, for instance, steadfastness also makes a man “perfect (teleioi) and complete (holoklepoi), lacking nothing.” These are stronger words than “artios” (The Holy Spirit’s word choice for “complete” or “competent” in St. Paul’s 2nd letter to Timothy) and so, by your reasoning we would have to say that “steadfastness alone” would make the man of God equipped for every good work.

Titus 3:8 says that good deeds are “profitable”, “excellent and beneficial” but surely you wouldn’t argue “sola works” would you?

II Tim. 2:21 says that purity (cleansing from these things) makes one “ready for every good work.” “Purity alone”? (Same letter, by the way.)

Col. 4:12 says that Epaphras is praying that the Colossians may be “perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.” “Prayer alone”?

You position is untenable, DD.

All my best . . .
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Wow. I read through all of your responses and this passage is still standing strong and hasn’t even been scratched. The reason for that is becasue you really can’t do anything with it. It means what it says and it says that ALL scripture is inspired by God and equips the man of God for EVERY GOOD WORK. You guys danced around the passage and never were able to explain away the word every or the word good or the word all. I know some tried but the language means what it means. You have no authority to change the meaning of words just because you wish you could.

So the total volume of scripture is what we need to be equipped for every good work. If there is a work to be done that scripture doesn’t equip us for it isn’t a good work. If there is a good work that scripture doesn’t equip us for then this verse simply isn’t true and the Roman Catholic teaching about the inerrancy of scripture is then false. Rock meet hard place.

So, since it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that scripture is sufficient. The Roman Catholic Church needs to Reform and get rid of all of it’s extra biblical teachings that it holds it’s members to.

If it would do that there would be unity. Guys when you find yourself presented with a passage of scripture that you don’t agree with it means you are wrong. This passage will stand forever as a refutation of any notion that Sola Scriptura isn’t ture.

So we see as demonstrated that Sola Scriptura is indeed true and Rome is in error and their best apologist on Catholic answers cannot explain away the clear meaning of the text.

The short story is. The Holy Spirit inspired scripture, not the apostle Paul. Here is what the Holy Spirit said:

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

He could have used different words but he didn’t he used the words above. They mean what they say. Many times your problems are in your hermeneutics. Just read it for what it says.
Friend, you’re hopelessly pathetic!
 
ALL but EVERY scripture. .
You do realize that when Paul wrote that the scriptures had not been divided up inot chapter and verse? It means ALL scripture that has ever been.

It means all scripture that has ever been written.

Face it you guys really do not have a solid reply to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. It simply teaches Sola Scriptura. The traditions that we hold fast to are the scriptures as we no longer have the apostles to give us the word of moouth, the letter is all that remains.
 
The conflict between Catholic faith and 2 Tim. 3:16 is all in your imagination.
No because the RCC insists that you are bound to believ that Mary is co-mediatris, was immaculatley conceived, was assumed into heaven, that certain people are in heaven and you can pray to them, that the Church can grant indulgences to free you from a time in a purgatory that isn’t even in the bible, and that the pope is infallible and transubstantioation and that there is any actual successor of the apostles at all.

The very reason the Holy Spirit inspired the apostels to deliver scripture is to preserve their inspired teachings.

Roman Catholics are simply wrong and they hate it because it proves the entire institution is flawed.
 
actually Catholics and millions of other Christians have already refuted your erroneous interpretation of the passage. You choose not to acknowledge our understanding of it, which is perfectly fine. The surface has been “scratched” and this has already been refuted. It’s an old tired argument that you bring here.
They said nothing that “refuted” what the scripture says because there is nothing that can change it’s meaning. They simply tried to lie their way out of the embarassment of the facts that the RCC is wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

It is high time the RCC admited that God is wiser than man, bow before him and accept his teachings as stated in scripture and reform the practices they do that are unscriptural.
 
You do realize that when Paul wrote that the scriptures had not been divided up inot chapter and verse? It means ALL scripture that has ever been.
It means all scripture that has ever been written.
YOU are the one who chose a single verse to state your case, and now you want to use that 🤓“you do realize that the scriptures had not been divided up inot[sic] chapter and verse” excuse? Yeah, DD. I knew that about 18 years ago when I came across it as a Protestant neophyte. The words used still mean what the words actually mean. “Pasa Graphe” means any single passage. Until you deal with the facts you remain in the realm of unjustifiable assertion.
Face it you guys really do not have a solid reply to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. It simply teaches Sola Scriptura. The traditions that we hold fast to are the scriptures as we no longer have the apostles to give us the word of moouth, the letter is all that remains.
What did the Patristics use? They didn’t have a Canon of scripture to choose from. That’s why they also used the Didache; Shepherd of Hermas, etc. Read them for yourself, DD.

Are you going to make an attempt, or just continue to assert that sola scriptura is true? I gave you a “solid reply” which is why you haven’t even attempted to refute me. You have simply asserted it. That is not an argument, DD. It’s an evasion. You can’t simply assert you have “refuted” anything, especially when you haven’t even attempted it. What’s next? You graduated summa cum laude from Harvard? You’re the next US Senator from Texas? You invented the internet? You’re John MacArthur’s gardener?:rolleyes:

Typical. You can’t change the actual words that the HS inspired the writers of the NT to use. So you have been soundly, repeatedly and overwhelmingly refuted, and if we are to take your reasoning then we must say that the rule of faith is “works alone”, “purity alone”, “charity alone”, “prayer alone” and any single sentence in the whole of scripture alone— and that from using :bible1: ALONE!!! II Timothy 2:21 (the same book even without the chapter/verse divisions) says "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, [and] prepared unto every good work.

So which is it, DD? Scripture ALONE, or Purity ALONE?

Children . . .:dts:
 
They said nothing that “refuted” what the scripture says because there is nothing that can change it’s meaning. They simply tried to lie their way out of the embarassment of the facts that the RCC is wrong.
You have got to be kidding. People here have rebutted you decisively on the basis of exegesis, comparative scripture, Church history and logic. To this you have had no new response other than to issue more pronouncements that you are right. And now you call us all liars. I almost think you are a misguided Catholic pretending to be a Protestant in order to show us all why not to be Protestant.

The problem with sermonizing with your fingers in your ears is that you provide us a visual cue not to listen to you either.
 
Guys, … and gals… DD HAS TO maintain his position. If he acknowledges that he is wrong (and I think he must quietly admit that to himself)… then his position is wrong.

Since all he has, as a self-professed Christian, is the Scripture Alone… he cannot afford to lose that. For then he will have nothing.

So perhaps we should encourage him to listen to the reasonableness of the Truths found fully in the Catholic Church… one at a time.

Then if he still does not have ears to hear, and eyes to see, he will have chosen to have nothing. He will, as they did in John 6, have chosen to walk away.

.
 
Okay 3 questions for Protestants only. Catholic sip it! You know the answer.
  1. Prove FROM THE BIBLE that the bible is the only rule of faith?
  2. How do you know which books belong in the bible in the first place?
  3. Prove to me that you have the authority to interpret the bible and that your interpretaions will always be accurate.
Okay this is ONLY for someone who deny’s the Teaching authority of the CC.

GOOD LUCK!😃
 
Okay 3 questions for Protestants only. Catholic sip it! You know the answer.
  1. Prove FROM THE BIBLE that the bible is the only rule of faith?
  2. How do you know which books belong in the bible in the first place?
  3. Prove to me that you have the authority to interpret the bible and that your interpretaions will always be accurate.
Okay this is ONLY for someone who deny’s the Teaching authority of the CC.

GOOD LUCK!😃
too simple… all the answers are found in Matt 29
 
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