C
caoimhin
Guest
But it doesn’t say Luke was one of them. That is not scripture but tradition, isn’t it?
- Status
C
caoimhin
Guest
Ah yes. God favored the Anglican church which went on to ordain everyone from active homosexuals to pagans. And by that logic God also approved the theology of Genghis Khan.
D
DD2007
Guest
Actually what we have here is a refutation of any notion that the scriptures do not teach sufficiency. The passage is clear and definitive.
There is no one more abrasive than a Roman Catholic apologist. You should really just stick to the argument and leave the ad hominem attacks in your head. It is a sign of childishness.
The passage speaks for itself.
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
So far all I’ve seen you guys do for many pages is fail to change the meaning of it. It will always be a witness against you though because God won;t let the gates of hell triumph over his church. So he will protect his word. He has even though many protestants have been burned alive by the RCC for protecting it. The blood of the martyrs are against the RCC as a witness.
Revelation 6:10 ESV
10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
D
DD2007
Guest
No, God favored the reform back to following the word of God. There will be many people who will pervert it. Yet the principle remains. Listen to God’s word, and check all men by it.
D
DD2007
Guest
It is not necessary that Luke be one of them. That is a simple theory that I shared with you. The apostles received the document as scripture. That is the truth. Where Luke came in for sure isn’t remembered.
Many pages back we defined the parameters for sola scriptura. It is only true in the absence of an apostle or a prophet or God himself of course. Even then none of those will ever contradict the true word of God.
So the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Church is God’s elect people who actually are true believers and are on God’s side. There are people in the visible Church that are not believers and are God haters, they are not the Church that is the pillar and foundation of truth.
The truth the Church holds up is the gospel of Christ that is recorded in the deposit of faith which is scripture! So the bible was received by the church and entrusted to her for safekeeping to be used as the authoritative source for faith and practice in the absence of prophets and apostles. So what is the truth the church holds up? The gospel. Where is the gospel found? In the writings of the prophets and apostles that were inspired by God. We call them scripture and have bound them together as our Holy Bible, our library of the deposit of faith.
Z
Zooey
Guest
What is amazing is that** you *can keep on insisting that
"This is what I say this passage means, so that is what it means and the rest of you are all wrong because I say so. and neener-neener-neener-neener! *to all of you"!!All you are doing is:shrug: exposing your own ignorance and arrogance.
Now that’s amazing. You actually have the everlasting gall to believe that your opinion is so right that you can’t learn anything from anyone.
You’re not totally hopeless; after all you’re still talking to us. But you’re pretty darn close…because:nope: you’re not listening. To anybody or anything we say.
And that attitude is indeed
pathetic.Which is not an insult. Its just a fact.
T
Tartini
Guest
Want to open a can of worms? Just mention the term Sola Scriptura on Catholic Answers!
I have noticed only one thing about those who insist on preaching Sola Scriptura. It is literally (no pun intended) futile to convince them otherwise. Individuals can get set in their ways. The results of the practice of SS are clearly defined in the results it has produced throughout history, namely unmitigated heresy and sometimes worse. The scriptures are too easily bent for one’s own purpose that one would wonder how they have not been completely eradicated by secular editors themselves up to the present.
If one looks at it with a clear logic, and as history is full of heresies ( and certain atrocities) committed in the practice of Sola Scriptura, one might come to the simple conclusion that it might be a dangerous practice for thinking people. Ignorance is often considered a blessed thing to those who are unaware of the damage that is perpetuated in personal interpretation of scripture. God cannot hold guilty someone who does not know better. But it real difference is created when the person understands what is truth and what is error. If they continue to promote error, they are guilty of a sin. The educated person should know better, and most certainly remember that they will have to answer to God in judgement for misleading others, particularly in matters of salvation. The more one knows, the more harshly they are judged, and this is wisdom. But in all considerations of Sola Scriptura, people want to read into scripture what makes them comfortable.
Personal interpretation is the real basis of why there are so many Christian sects that insist on using SS as a basis of their teaching, are constantly coming and going even as I write this. Anyone can take scripture and twist it to their own purposes. Personal interpretation is the greatest basis of error.
To use such a bold word as “refute” against 1500 years of teachings of the Catholic Church, which Christ Himself founded, is absurd and rather contradictory to reason itself, not to mention TRUTH. A person who preaches Sola Scriptura is refuting what is biblical—they are contradicting themselves by the very act itself.
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/sola.htm
I have noticed only one thing about those who insist on preaching Sola Scriptura. It is literally (no pun intended) futile to convince them otherwise. Individuals can get set in their ways. The results of the practice of SS are clearly defined in the results it has produced throughout history, namely unmitigated heresy and sometimes worse. The scriptures are too easily bent for one’s own purpose that one would wonder how they have not been completely eradicated by secular editors themselves up to the present.
If one looks at it with a clear logic, and as history is full of heresies ( and certain atrocities) committed in the practice of Sola Scriptura, one might come to the simple conclusion that it might be a dangerous practice for thinking people. Ignorance is often considered a blessed thing to those who are unaware of the damage that is perpetuated in personal interpretation of scripture. God cannot hold guilty someone who does not know better. But it real difference is created when the person understands what is truth and what is error. If they continue to promote error, they are guilty of a sin. The educated person should know better, and most certainly remember that they will have to answer to God in judgement for misleading others, particularly in matters of salvation. The more one knows, the more harshly they are judged, and this is wisdom. But in all considerations of Sola Scriptura, people want to read into scripture what makes them comfortable.
Personal interpretation is the real basis of why there are so many Christian sects that insist on using SS as a basis of their teaching, are constantly coming and going even as I write this. Anyone can take scripture and twist it to their own purposes. Personal interpretation is the greatest basis of error.
To use such a bold word as “refute” against 1500 years of teachings of the Catholic Church, which Christ Himself founded, is absurd and rather contradictory to reason itself, not to mention TRUTH. A person who preaches Sola Scriptura is refuting what is biblical—they are contradicting themselves by the very act itself.
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/sola.htm
J
jokerman
Guest
"But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." 1Tim 3:15
notice that it doesnt say that the church holds up the truth but rather the church IS the truth.
doesnt the Bible also say that we must hold fast to the traditions handed down, both oral and written? doesnt this then mean that the Word of God in its fullness would be found in the oral traditions of the Church as well as the written ones? how can we say other wise especially in light of what the Bible says on the matter.
would you submit that the same church mentioned above in 1Tim has been teaching error for 2000 years? if this is true then the Church and the Bible are both fallible and teach error.
C
caoimhin
Guest
The apostles received the Gospel of Luke as scripture? On what authority do you know this?
OK, leaving aside the parables like the tares & wheat, sheep & goats… what is your authority to define the Church this way? It seems to me that one can tailor one’s idea of church authority according to one’s whims simply by rejecting anyone’s views they don’t like as being “outside the church.” Just like the first generation of Reformers hardly broke with Rome before starting to call down anathemas on each other.
Again, on what authority do you define the deposit of faith? That is, aside from *your own *understanding and assertions of what the true meaning of the Bible is?
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
DD The gospel according to DD ,God help us,DD did you get your degee from Ligonier Ministries onlion ot off line
R
rinnie
Guest
But you said that the scripture is proof that You can define scripture. Now you are saying that the scripture means they are his sheep. Now what is it?
R
rinnie
Guest
According to the gospel according to DD the CHurch are the people.
According to Jesus Christ he and the Church are one.
Now DD says the Church are the People. Jesus says he is the Church,
So now we have a even bigger problem. If Jesus Christ is the true Church as he promised we have one Church and One Teacher.
If Dd is right we have so many church’s and so many truths where are we to turn. SO then there is no one truth and God must have lied to me and there are many truths or what?
M
MrS
Guest
Wrong…
“If your brother…” go to him…
and if he does not listen… take another…
and if he STILL does not listen… take it to the Church.
Sorry, … the Authority does not… NOT … fall to an individual or a couple of individuals.
The Authority to correct and teach belongs to the Church, not to anyone and everyone who wishes to teach and exercise their own authority.
R
rinnie
Guest
God favored the reform Thats priceless there. Tell me DD could you show me scripture that shows me how God favored someone trying to tear People away from his church? When scripture clearly states the opposite.
Also DD how could the first Church be the word of God, then the reform which broke from the first Church reform you back to the church?
M
MrS
Guest
While the Church…
produced, by hand all the copies of the Bible
While the Church…
destroyed copies with errors, and safeguarded (chained) authentic copies in the churches so that anyone who could read would be able to read the Scriptures
While the Church …
re-inforced, at Trent, which books were canon, and all others were not.
While the Church…
provided for numerous versions, in Germany, for all the people… long before Luther and the heretic reformation.
Get your history right DD… some one is feeding you misinformation.
.
M
MrS
Guest
And it is God’s Word to Peter alone… and then to Peter and the Apostles…
“Feed My Sheep… Tend My Flock… Feed My Sheep…”
Never rescinded… and NEVER given to your human leaders, or whomever you are getting this stuff from.
You CANNOT be one of HIS Sheep unless you listen to the Shepherd.
He who hears you (not you DD), hears Me, and and One Who sent Me.
.
M
MrS
Guest
What is amazing is that** you *can keep on insisting that
All you are doing is:shrug: exposing your own ignorance and arrogance.
Now that’s amazing. You actually have the everlasting gall to believe that your opinion is so right that you can’t learn anything from anyone.
You’re not totally hopeless; after all you’re still talking to us. But you’re pretty darn close…because:nope: you’re not listening. To anybody or anything we say.
And that attitude is indeed
Thanks Zooey.The Lord be with you.
.
M
MrS
Guest
That is because without a Bible… they have nothing. No tradition, no faith life, no source of grace and the sacraments.
And no Jesus.
With the Bible, all they have is the Book of the Catholic Church.
And they say " … the Bible says…"
Well, I have yet to see a copy of the Bible that could talk to me or anyone.
DD… can you hear me now ???
.
R
rinnie
Guest
Now Dd go back. Read the bible. In the NT Jesus clearly choose leaders for his flock giving them powers of teaching, ruling and sanctifying.
The Apostles had certain special gifts with thier unique roles as first leaders of the Church. Which Christ said should be maintained until the end of time.
CHrist gave them work to do to proclaim the word of God, to continue in the church the Eucharistic sacrifice and other sacraments. In Christs name they were to guard and rule the church with pastoral care effectively preserving an astonishing unity in the family of faith.
Yes in Peter 2 9-10 we are a chosen race. We are members of his Mystical Body and faithfully join him in offering the one sacrifice of the cross in its eucharistic renewal. But the Sacrament of Holy Orders joins one to the Priesthood of Christ in a unique way.
Surely you must see the difference here. You must see that the Apostles had to teach the word of God to the People. The People did not all learn on their own. Surely If Jesus wanted this he would have given them all bibles and given them all the power of the HS to define scripture. ANd he would not have selected the chosen few. Surely you can see this now.
Can you turn wine into the Blood of CHrist. Can you change bread into the Body of Christ. Please DD you must admit that you do not have the power to do so. Can you anoint and Baptise People, again marry them etc and say you have the power of the HS thru the Church to do so. No DD you do not. Then you can also see how you do not have the other gift given to the chosen few to define scripture. Please tell me I am :newidea: getting you thinking now.
The Apostles had certain special gifts with thier unique roles as first leaders of the Church. Which Christ said should be maintained until the end of time.
CHrist gave them work to do to proclaim the word of God, to continue in the church the Eucharistic sacrifice and other sacraments. In Christs name they were to guard and rule the church with pastoral care effectively preserving an astonishing unity in the family of faith.
Yes in Peter 2 9-10 we are a chosen race. We are members of his Mystical Body and faithfully join him in offering the one sacrifice of the cross in its eucharistic renewal. But the Sacrament of Holy Orders joins one to the Priesthood of Christ in a unique way.
Surely you must see the difference here. You must see that the Apostles had to teach the word of God to the People. The People did not all learn on their own. Surely If Jesus wanted this he would have given them all bibles and given them all the power of the HS to define scripture. ANd he would not have selected the chosen few. Surely you can see this now.
Can you turn wine into the Blood of CHrist. Can you change bread into the Body of Christ. Please DD you must admit that you do not have the power to do so. Can you anoint and Baptise People, again marry them etc and say you have the power of the HS thru the Church to do so. No DD you do not. Then you can also see how you do not have the other gift given to the chosen few to define scripture. Please tell me I am :newidea: getting you thinking now.
C
Convert66
Guest
DD,
You refuse to answer my questions but insist we’ve all been refuted. This entire board can see you for what you are, DD.
Dishonest; evasive; dissembling; disingenuous; all of which precludes purity from any description of you and casts severe doubt on your character.
By Scripture ALONE we see that Purity ALONE equips for every good work. Steadfastness alone; prayer alone; AND Scripture alone—that is. . . pasa graphe ANY SINGLE VERSE OR PASSAGE IN THE BIBLE ALONE!!!
Genesis 1:1----“In the beginning. . . .”
There! I’m equipped for EVERY GOOD WORK! DD said so!!! All who disagree have been REFUTED!!!And He ALONE is pure!!!
See you at Mass, DD. Your days are numbered . . .
<<<DD when he stops fighting the Holy Spirit!!!
If who was pure? St. Timothy? Apollos? Clement? St. Augustine? St. Thomas Aquinas? Luther? Calvin? Zwingli? Spurgeon? Edwards? Billy Graham? John MacArthur? Does he know that DD has imputed purity to him too?
You refuse to answer my questions but insist we’ve all been refuted. This entire board can see you for what you are, DD.
Dishonest; evasive; dissembling; disingenuous; all of which precludes purity from any description of you and casts severe doubt on your character.
By Scripture ALONE we see that Purity ALONE equips for every good work. Steadfastness alone; prayer alone; AND Scripture alone—that is. . . pasa graphe ANY SINGLE VERSE OR PASSAGE IN THE BIBLE ALONE!!!
Genesis 1:1----“In the beginning. . . .”
There! I’m equipped for EVERY GOOD WORK! DD said so!!! All who disagree have been REFUTED!!!And He ALONE is pure!!!
See you at Mass, DD. Your days are numbered . . .
<<<DD when he stops fighting the Holy Spirit!!!- Status