Sola Scriptura is True

[dj_dave]

dj dave;5636374:

DlDave I hate to be the one to tell you but your bible is the most corrupted bible in the world,You did not have any scholars working on your bible its like reading a Jack Chick book.Sorry it has No creditable

Regardless of your feelings Bill, we will use *anyone’s *Bible in our worlwide Bible Educational work. We even encourage hoseholder’s to get their copy and to follow along.
With our presentations. nuf said.

 

[Bill_Pick]

NOW
see web.archive.org/web/20031210124954/users.eggconnect.net/noddy3/metzcolw.htm

DiDave I will not believe any thing from your church if it came notari zeit all just nossence

 

[dj_dave]

DJ Dave, Dave does this mean any thing to you:

Tuesday, 23rd November, 1954:
Frederick William Franz, Examined:

Q. Have you also made yourself familiar with Hebrew?
A. Yes…

ADJOURNED
WWW 4 jehovah,org

I’m not sure that is quoted correctly–I have my suspicions Consider the same as regards him knowing Greek::
Questions From Readers
● Are the charges in a tract against Jehovah’s witnesses true that the Society’s first president …committed perjury when asked in court if he could read Greek?—C. W., North Carolina.

The “perjury” charge was not made in court, but in a tract written later by an irresponsible slanderer against whom Brother Russell had brought a libel case. The official record of the case in question (Police Court of the City of Hamilton, Ontario, March 17, 1913) says: “Q. You don’t profess, then, to be schooled in the Latin language? A. No, sir. Q. Or in Greek? A. No, sir.” After this he was asked if he knew individual Greek letters, and it was over this that the question of his knowledge of Greek arose. This false “perjury” claim has been repeated by many who never went to this Canadian city to check this old court record to see if they are spreading truth or a lie. Not only has the question they “quote” been reworded, but Brother Russell had specifically said that he did not know Greek.

I will do further research and get back to you.

 

[dj_dave]

DiDave I will not believe any thing from your church if it came notari zeit all just nossence

Then we are through. Eccl 3:6

(Matthew 10:11-15) ...“Into whatever city or village YOU enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until YOU leave. 12 When YOU are entering into the house, greet the household; 13 and if the house is deserving, let the peace YOU wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from YOU return upon YOU. 14 Wherever anyone does not take YOU in or listen to YOUR words, on going out of that house or that city shake the dust off YOUR feet. 15 Truly I say to YOU, It will be more endurable for the land of Sod′om and Go·mor′rah on Judgment Day than for that city.

Very soon Bill, you are going to learn that most of the teachings of the CC were taught to increase revenue.

Philp 1:9-11, Col 1:9-12

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill Pick;5636499:

Regardless of your feelings Bill, we will use *anyone’s *

Bible in our worlwide Bible Educational work. We even encourage hoseholder’s to get their copy and to follow along.
With our presentations. nuf said.

You have that right NUF said.And you are not being truthf

 

[dj_dave]

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[Contarini]

Very soon Bill, you are going to learn that most of the teachings of the CC were taught to increase revenue.

That’s silly and patronizing. Just about any teachings of any church can be interpreted in this way by those who have a mind. Your own church is certainly not exempt from such criticisms. You discredit yourself by your unwillingness to take seriously doctrines with which you disagree and by your willingness to assume that you can read the hearts of the long-ago Christians who developed these ideas.

Edwin

 

[Filioque]

Dave Dave Dave:

What a bunch of bunk, posted with no evidence to back it up.

Unlike the JW’s the Apostolate of the Catholic Church includes Schools from K to Grad School. Many of the Schools in poor communities and Missions provide free school to the poor, and are supported through monies from the collections, as are Hospitals, many charitable and supplying free medical care throughout the world. Then there is food, and building supplies.

Yes the Catholic Church owns property, and the Museums at the Vatican have some very valuable artwork which has been donated to it. But what would be better, to share the artwork with the world, and charge a nominal fee to keep access to anyone who wants to see it, as well as use the fees for charitable work, or to sell it to a private collector and rob the world of both the art, and the income to support the poor? The JW owns property too, and made a good sum on selling off the Brooklyn Property. Let alone other properties.

If rather than being a little over 100 years old, and telling the world that Jesus lied, and abandoned His Church, having to wait on Russell and Ruthford to restore what Jesus abandoned, the JW were 2000 years old, I wonder what the bank books, and property regester would be for it?

Continue to post unsupported information that your anointed tell you is true, I’m sure there are enough here who can see through the smoke screen. Since this is devolving into a thread on the Errors of JW Theology, why not open a new thread, as there are several dealing with JW and Mormonism. You may want to look over them and see what you are in for, as far as what has been posted by other JW’s and the replys, so we don’t have to reinvent the JWheel.

 

[jlhargus]

I thought I was going out if my mind, but I realized that Mr. Smith was only joking."

Now, if I had quoted George as saying “He said he was going out of his mind!”–that would be taking out of context.

Consider
the following quotes are taken from our :“Creation Book” to explain a point about how much fossil evidence is now available to study…
The quotes are take from Evolutionists…

12 Now, after well over a century of extensive digging, vast numbers of fossils have been unearthed. Is the record still so “imperfect”? The book Processes of Organic Evolution comments: “The record of past forms of life is now extensive and is constantly increasing in richness as paleontologists find, describe, and compare new fossils.”10 And Smithsonian Institution scientist Porter Kier adds: “There are a hundred million fossils, all catalogued and identified, in museums around the world.”11 Hence, A Guide to Earth History declares: “By the aid of fossils palaeontologists can now give us an excellent picture of the life of past ages.”1

After all this time, and the assembling of millions of fossils, what does the record now say? Evolutionist Steven Stanley states that these fossils “reveal new and surprising things about our biological origins.”13 The book A View of Life, written by three evolutionists, adds: “The fossil record is full of trends that paleontologists have been unable to explain.”14 What is it that these evolutionary scientists have found to be so “surprising” and are “unable to explain”? …(You will have to read the book.)

Anyway, the point is that as far as I could see–the quotes were real. Just because they have their own view of the WTBTS doesn’t change the fact that they did say it.

JL: You do a good song and dance, with your canned WT remarks.

HERE IS JUST ONE QUOTE ONE SITE STATES…

"trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. … three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology. In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."
NOW WHAT IF THE JW’S PREFACED THAT QUOTE WITH "while the following quote was made by persons that believed the substance of the Christian Trinity is Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."THEN still went on to say "trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. … three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology WOULD that change the intended purpose of the quote? NO!

JL: It would be deceptive as there is no such thing as three combined gods in Christianity. there is only ONE GOD. But with your “a god” you come closer to the Egyptian model, with the exception you have two gods instead of three gods. By the way they also had a resurrection and vigin birth etc. etc…

 

[jlhargus]

I thought I was going out if my mind, but I realized that Mr. Smith was only joking."

Now, if I had quoted George as saying “He said he was going out of his mind!”–that would be taking out of context.

Consider
the following quotes are taken from our :“Creation Book” to explain a point about how much fossil evidence is now available to study…
The quotes are take from Evolutionists…

12 Now, after well over a century of extensive digging, vast numbers of fossils have been unearthed. Is the record still so “imperfect”? The book Processes of Organic Evolution comments: “The record of past forms of life is now extensive and is constantly increasing in richness as paleontologists find, describe, and compare new fossils.”10 And Smithsonian Institution scientist Porter Kier adds: “There are a hundred million fossils, all catalogued and identified, in museums around the world.”11 Hence, A Guide to Earth History declares: “By the aid of fossils palaeontologists can now give us an excellent picture of the life of past ages.”1

After all this time, and the assembling of millions of fossils, what does the record now say? Evolutionist Steven Stanley states that these fossils “reveal new and surprising things about our biological origins.”13 The book A View of Life, written by three evolutionists, adds: “The fossil record is full of trends that paleontologists have been unable to explain.”14 What is it that these evolutionary scientists have found to be so “surprising” and are “unable to explain”? …(You will have to read the book.)

Anyway, the point is that as far as I could see–the quotes were real. Just because they have their own view of the WTBTS doesn’t change the fact that they did say it.

JL: As far as you can see. You didn’t see far did you? You didn’t open one of those lines I posted, for fear of being disfellowshiped. They don’t want you to learn the truth about thier misquotes. You do a good song and dance, with your canned WT remarks,saying and answering nothing.

[HERE IS JUST ONE QUOTE ONE SITE STATES…

*"trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. … three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology

. In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."
NOW WHAT IF THE JW’S PREFACED THAT QUOTE WITH "while the following quote was made by persons that believed the substance of the Christian Trinity is Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."THEN still went on to say "trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. … three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology WOULD that change the intended purpose of the quote? NO!

JL: It would be very deceptive as there is no such thing as three combined gods in Christianity. there is only ONE GOD. But with your “a god” you come closer to the Egyptian model, with the exception you have two gods instead of three gods. You have a mighty god and an almighty god. By the way they also had a resurrection and vigin birth etc. etc…

 

[jlhargus]

Okay, the part that is underlined is the part that the WTBTS left out? Because it was not *part of the discussion *at hand.

JL: That is not the case with the lines I posted, your are just blowing air to cover.

Notice the whole quote from the ‘Trinity Brochure’

"Historian Will Durant observed: “Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity.” And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: “The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.” Thus, in Alexandria, Egypt, churchmen of the late third and early fourth centuries, such as Athanasius, reflected this influence as they formulated ideas that led to the Trinity. Their own influence spread, so that Morenz considers “Alexandrian theology as the intermediary between the Egyptian religious heritage and Christianity.”

In the preface to Edward Gibbon’s History of Christianity, we read: “If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism. The pure Deism of the first Christians (**Now suppose he inserted here "Of course I am a firm believer in the Trinity–then went on to say **)... was changed, by the Church of Rome, … Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief.”

JL: you left out an important pagan use of the Great Pyamid:

“The ‘grand gallery’ measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881 inches, at the bottom…Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874, 1878, 1881,) are marked by the pyramid…” WT 5/1881, p. 225 [pg 15 Index of Watch Tower Errors, David A Reed, editor compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell, Baker Book House Grand Rapids, Michigan 49516]

“…the Great Pyramid, the measurements of which confirm the Bible teaching that 1878 marked the beginning of the harvest of the Gospel age… the harvest would close forty years thereafter; to wit, in the spring of A.D. 1918… we have only a few months in which to labor before the great night settles down when no man can work.” WT 10/1/1917, p. 6149 [pg 22 Index of Watch Tower Errors, David A Reed, editor compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell, Baker Book House Grand Rapids, Michigan 49516]

“in the passages of the Great Pyramid of Gizeh the agreement of one or two measurements with present-turth chronology might be accidental, but the correspondency of dozens of measurements proves that the same God designed both pyramid and plan…” WT 6/15/1922, p. 187

“This chronology is not of man but of God … of divine origin … absolutely and unqualifiedly correct.” WT 7/15/1922, p. 217 [pg 25 Index of Watch Tower Errors, David A Reed, editor compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell, Baker Book House Grand Rapids, Michigan 49516]

–THE FACT REMAINS HARGUS, HE SAID WHAT WAS QUOTED

JL: Fact is had you not been in fear to read the lines I posted you would have seen otherwise.

The Watchtower merely quotes from sources to confirm the subject being discussed. Go back to my post–notice the difference in the illustration. I’m sorry if this reply does not meet with your approval. I will not discuss this further. We could go on and on and on.
Soon Jehovah "(1 Corinthians 4:5) …will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God. I’ll bet you 1$ we win……Wait we don’t gamble either (Isa 65:11)

BY the way "The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."…is a very WEAK reason to support the Trinity

I’m sorry these Scholars took the view they did …perhaps Luke 10:21; 1 Cor 1:19 and 1Cor 2:6 comes into play. Some just are not going to see. They’re are many scholars that would disagree completely with these like I said we could go on and on and on.
web.archive.org/web/20031207094230/hector3000.future.easyspace.com/index.htm

JL: You should not only be sorry but ashamed for your post of double talk and useless nonsense to avoid the truth.

 

[adstrinity]

DD< I have been a Knight for about 53 years and I have a very hard time believing you on this statment,PLEASE explain’’’’'I will not tell you anything about the Knights of Columbus because I swore to them I wouldn’t reveal anything and I will abide by my word…
I hate to say any one is not telling the truth but I think your nose is getting longer as we talk.

Yeah, what is this about? Is the KoC the Free Masons? Is there really secrecy and such?

Let me see if i understand you, after he left earth he became all mighty God again? All knowing, and equal in Eternity, Power and Wisdom?

Jesus never ceased to be God. Jesus is God. Jesus was God. Jesus will always be God. He was, is, and always will be equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[dj_dave]

My question then, is why and or how could he ‘receive’ something he did not have 60 years AFTER he returned to heaven? Rev 1:1

(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

ALSO notice Rev 1:4, 5

…May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5**and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness*,”

Regardless of history of your church and history of my ‘church’–the fact remains when it comes to teaching the TRUTH from just the BIBLE–you cannot, I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE… To constantly go to supposed errors in my group or yours is in the end a waste of time–compared to having the ability to teach from the Bible. That is what we do.

 

[Filioque]

My question then, is why and or how could he ‘receive’ something he did not have 60 years AFTER he returned to heaven? Rev 1:1

(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

ALSO notice Rev 1:4, 5

…May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5**and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness*,”

Regardless of history of your church and history of my ‘church’–the fact remains when it comes to teaching the TRUTH from just the BIBLE–you cannot, I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE… To constantly go to supposed errors in my group or yours is in the end a waste of time–compared to having the ability to teach from the Bible. That is what we do.

I am a bit confused between these contradictions, from God’s Chosen Org. Which teaching is true? Does truth change? Since you freely admitted that there area things that the JW once believed, until it was descovered that the interpretation, (we assume guided by God) has been found to be in error. How does one determine which doctrine or policy is really God’s?

“Hence our dear Pastor, now in glory, is without doubt, manifesting a keen interest in the harvest work, and is permitted by the Lord to exercise some strong influence thereupon.” Watch Tower, Nov. 1, 1917

“No one of the temple company will be so foolish as to conclude that some brother (or brethren) at one time amongst them, and who has died and gone to heaven, is now instructing the saints on earth and directing them as to their work.” Jehovah (1934)

“Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovah’s chief angel, or archangel.” The Watchtower, Feb. 1, 1991

“God did not send some angel to rescue mankind. He made the supreme sacrifice of sending his only-begotten Son…” The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1991

“True, no early surviving Greek manuscript of the ‘New Testament’ contains the personal name of God. But the name was included in the New World Translation for sound reasons, not merely on a whim.” The Watchtower, Mar. 1,1991

“…the general trend in many lands is that the level of schooling required to earn decent wages is now higher than it was a few years ago. …So no hard-and-fast rules should be made either for or against extra education. …If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is their prerogative.” The Watchtower, November 1, 1992,

“Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them ‘brainwash’ you with the Devil’s propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world.” The Watchtower, March 15, 1969

 

[jlhargus]

Jesus never ceased to be God. Jesus is God. Jesus was God. Jesus will always be God. He was, is, and always will be equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

My question then, is why and or how could he ‘receive’ something he did not have 60 years AFTER he returned to heaven? Rev 1:1

JL: It seems your founding brothers KNEW Christ was the Mighty God. Were they in ‘THE TRUTH’? or are you not now in ‘THE TRUTH’? Both doctrines cannot be in ‘THE TRUTH’, can they? That would be a contradiction of truth. According to WT publications ‘NEW LIGHT’ doesn’t contradict ‘OLD LIGHT’, So what’s going on here? Can’t just be called new light if it contradicts old light can it? Silly question I forgot I’m talking about the Watchtower, of course it can and does contradict itself.

“… the same titles are applicable to the Church as his body, … soon follows the power which will, under him as our head, constitute the whole body of Christ the ‘Mightly God’ … the members of that company which as a whole will be the Everlasting Father…” WT 11/1881, p. 298 [pg 16 Index of Watch Tower Errors, by David A. Reed, Editor. Compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell. Baker Book House, Gand Rapids, MI 49516]

(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

ALSO notice Rev 1:4, 5

…May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5**and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness*,”

JL: ALSO NOTICE and continue with Rev1:4-8; Rv1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. 7 Look, HE IS COMING with the clouds, and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, even those who PIERCED him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8 " I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA," says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and WHO IS TO COME, THE ALMIGHTY.”

Tell me who is coming? Who was pierced? Verse 8 says God the Almighty is coming, but only ONE is coming. Our Lord and Almighty God Jesus Christ.

Rv22:12 "Behold, I AM COMING SOON! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, the FIRST AND THE LAST, the beginning AND THE END.

The Alpha and Omega is coming soon God almighty, but when he repeats it again, The name given is our Lord Jesus who is almight God who is coming soon.

Rv22:20 HE WHO TESTIFIES TO THESE THINGS SAYS, “Yes, I AM COMING SOON.” Amen. COME, LORD JESUS.

Who is testifiing in Rv22? Who is coming?

Rv2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of HIM WHO IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST, WHO DIED AND CAME TO LIFE AGAIN.

Who is speaking in Rv2:8? Answer Jesus. Who is Jesus identifying himself as being? Answer the FIRST AND THE LAST. Who is the FIRST AND THE LAST? Answer Almight God our Lord Jesus Christ, who died and came to life again.

Isa48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I AM HE; I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST. 13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.
Rv22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the FIRST AND THE LAST, the Beginning and the End.

Rv1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST. 18 I AM THE LIVING ONE; I WAS DEAD, and BEHOLD I AM ALIVE for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Who is the first and the last, the living ONE, who was dead and now lives, who holds the keys of death and Hades? Answer my LORD and my GOD, JESUS.

Regardless of history of your church and history of my ‘church’–the fact remains when it comes to teaching the TRUTH from just the BIBLE–you cannot, I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE… To constantly go to supposed errors in my group or yours is in the end a waste of time–compared to having the ability to teach from the Bible. That is what we do.

JL: You post in your bragging way, “I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE…”]. So that rules out your using the NWT, the JW’s translation for sure. I might add, nor can you over turn our teachings. Your statement is correct in that if one could over trun anyones teachings with scripture, then there would be only one Catholic Apostolic Church as Christ intended.

 

[jlhargus]

Very soon Bill, you are going to learn that most of the teachings of the CC were taught to increase revenue.

JL: Yes Bill don’t you know Armageddon is just a few short MONTHS away and has been only a few short MONTHS away since World War I. But this time it’s only MONTHS away for sure really they’re not kidding seriously THIS TIME it’s for real, unless it doesn’t happen like all the other times. Then they can blame as they always do those JW, WHO SUPPOSEDLY, misunderstood what the Watchtower ACTUALLY said.

Instead of the false prophesy about the 1914 generation, millions now living will never die, well there’s new light, it’s now down to maybe, hopefully one now living might never die, but don’t put your house up for sale or leave your job this time, as in 1975. There might be new new light. It all depends, who has their finger, on the new light switch.

It seems both, their two man made gods, the mighty god and the almighty god are indecisive or senile or the Watchtower is a false Prophet, by its own definition.

one more thing…

[Example: Infant baptism–Think of the money the CC will make if-because a person is baptized as a Catholic and he continues on in life as a catholic BECAUSE he was baptized as a Catholic-- how many times will a collection plate pass before him in his lifetime?

Contraception-- I know they reason ‘life’s a gift from God, don’t block a gift’–so wrong-- the Bible says nothing about this subect. Think of how many births have come about because of not having practicing contraception, now again, if raised a catholic think of how many times will a collection plate pass before him in his lifetime?

JL: Well I don’t think those new baptized would even come close to bringing in the revenue of JW’s selling magazines for the Watchtower. At lest having children is more fun and we don’t have to punch a time clock. Worrying we wont get our monthly required hours, the Watchtower requires and keeps tabs on. In the hope of at lest being found good enough to live on earth. As being in the new covenant and going to heaven is off limits to all but the class of the hundred forty-four thousand.

Tell me where in scripture do we find no one born after 1934 or 35 can be in the new covenant and go to heaven? Where do we find God’s people divided into two classes of people? Dj no one is good enough, nor can anyone ever be. It is God who is good enough to supply the grace for all people, who turn to him in love, so anyone can be with him, where he is.
[/quote]

 

[jlhargus]

By the way the collection plate? NIV Cor 9:6-7

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

JL: So what is your point here? Are you bragging that you give generously? Or are you implying Catholics give under compulsion? I can tell you in my 35 years as a convert living in different parishes that is not the case. I have never been told what I must give and indeed would give less if I were told such a thing.

Jesus never ceased to be God. Jesus is God. Jesus was God. Jesus will always be God. He was, is, and always will be equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

My question then, is why and or how could he ‘receive’ something he did not have 60 years AFTER he returned to heaven? Rev 1:1

JL: “… the same titles are applicable to the Church as his body, … soon follows the power which will, under him as our head, constitute the whole body of Christ the ‘Mightly God’ … the members of that company which as a whole will be the Everlasting Father…” WT 11/1881, p. 298 [pg 16 Index of Watch Tower Errors, by David A. Reed, Editor. Compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell. Baker Book House, Gand Rapids, MI 49516]

It seems your founding brothers KNEW Christ was the Mighty God. Were they in ‘THE TRUTH’? or are you not now in ‘THE TRUTH’? Both doctrines cannot be in ‘THE TRUTH’, can they? That would be a contradiction of truth. According to WT publications ‘NEW LIGHT’ doesn’t contradict ‘OLD LIGHT’, So what’s going on here? Can’t just be called new light if it contradicts old light can it? Silly question I forgot I’m talking about the Watchtower, of course it can and does contradict itself.

(Revelation 1:1) A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

ALSO notice Rev 1:4, 5

…May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5**and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness*,”

JL: ALSO NOTICE and continue with Rev1:4-8; Rv1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. 7 Look, HE IS COMING with the clouds, and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, even those who PIERCED him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8 " I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA," says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and WHO IS TO COME, THE ALMIGHTY.”

Tell me who is coming? Who was pierced? Verse 8 says God the Almighty is coming, but only ONE is coming. Our Lord and Almighty God Jesus Christ.

Rv22:12 "Behold, I AM COMING SOON! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, the FIRST AND THE LAST, the beginning AND THE END.

The Alpha and Omega is coming soon God almighty, but when he repeats it again, The name given is our Lord Jesus who is almight God who is coming soon.

Rv22:20 HE WHO TESTIFIES TO THESE THINGS SAYS, “Yes, I AM COMING SOON.” Amen. COME, LORD JESUS.

Who is testifiing in Rv22? Who is coming?

Rv2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of HIM WHO IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST, WHO DIED AND CAME TO LIFE AGAIN.

Who is speaking in Rv2:8? Answer Jesus. Who is Jesus identifying himself as being? Answer the FIRST AND THE LAST. Who is the FIRST AND THE LAST? Answer Almight God our Lord Jesus Christ, who died and came to life again.

Isa48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I AM HE; I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST. 13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.
Rv22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the FIRST AND THE LAST, the Beginning and the End.

Rv1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST. 18 I AM THE LIVING ONE; I WAS DEAD, and BEHOLD I AM ALIVE for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Who is the first and the last, the living ONE, who was dead and now lives, who holds the keys of death and Hades? Answer my LORD and my GOD, JESUS.

 

[Bill_Pick]

JL: Yes Bill don’t you know Armageddon is just a few short MONTHS away and has been only a few short MONTHS away since World War I. But this time it’s only MONTHS away for sure really they’re not kidding seriously THIS TIME it’s for real, unless it doesn’t happen like all the other times. Then they can blame as they always do those JW, WHO SUPPOSEDLY, misunderstood what the Watchtower ACTUALLY said.

Instead of the false prophesy about the 1914 generation, millions now living will never die, well there’s new light, it’s now down to maybe, hopefully one now living might never die, but don’t put your house up for sale or leave your job this time, as in 1975. There might be new new light. It all depends, who has their finger, on the new light switch.

It seems both, their two man made gods, the mighty god and the almighty god are indecisive or senile or the Watchtower is a false Prophet, by its own definition.

JL: Well I don’t think those new baptized would even come close to bringing in the revenue of JW’s selling magazines for the Watchtower. At lest having children is more fun and we don’t have to punch a time clock. Worrying we wont get our monthly required hours, the Watchtower requires and keeps tabs on. In the hope of at lest being found good enough to live on earth. As being in the new covenant and going to heaven is off limits to all but the class of the hundred forty-four thousand.

Tell me where in scripture do we find no one born after 1934 or 35 can be in the new covenant and go to heaven? Where do we find God’s people divided into two classes of people? Dj no one is good enough, nor can anyone ever be. It is God who is good enough to supply the grace for all people, who turn to him in love, so anyone can be with him, where he is.

DJ< Your cult has been spreading this junk for 60 years one os these days you will get it right. and world war has been over more then a few weeks your cult never make sense.
You have beat that new light to death its time for more of your fales teaching, THE WATCHTOWER IS A FALES CULT …END OF STORY

 

[jlhargus]

Regardless of history of your church and history of my ‘church’–the fact remains when it comes to teaching the TRUTH from just the BIBLE–you cannot, I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE… To constantly go to supposed errors in my group or yours is in the end a waste of time–compared to having the ability to teach from the Bible. That is what we do.

JL: You post in your bragging way, “I repeat cannot over turn our teachings of scripture with any reputable BIBLE…”]. So that rules out your using the NWT, the JW’s translation for sure. I might add, nor can you over turn our teachings. Your statement is correct in that if one could over trun anyones teachings with scripture, then there would be only one Catholic Apostolic Church as Christ intended.

To constantly go to supposed errors in my group or yours is in the end a waste of time–compared to having the ability to teach from the Bible. That is what we do.

JL: Nonsense, you are not allowed to read the bible apart from what the WT tells you to read.

The Bible is a sealed book except to the organization. WT 7/1/1973, p. 402 [66 Index of Watch Tower Errors, David A Reed, editor compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell, Baker Book House Grand Rapids, Michigan 49516]

“… from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people … haughty ones … say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago…” WT 8/15/1981, pp. 28-29 [67 Index of Watch Tower Errors, David A Reed, editor compiled by Steve Huntoon & John Cornell, Baker Book House Grand Rapids, Michigan 49516].

What would those doctrines reverted back to be, the trinity, Jesus is God, the bodily resurrection of Our Lord and God Jesus Christ, hell, soul etc. So the WT thinks reading the scriptures without their WT traditions of men made doctrines of God will lead one into darkness. Don’t you find their statement strange reading scripture exclusively will lead you away from the WT. This is one time they have it right. Seems the WT doesn’t trust scripture or for that matter their on doctrines to be found there. They know reading the bible exclusively apart from the WT traditions of men will lead you to TRUTH and out of their DARKNESS.

 

[dj_dave]

It seems your founding brothers KNEW Christ was the Mighty God. Were they in ‘THE TRUTH’? or are you not now in ‘THE TRUTH’?

END QUOTE

We have always recognized Christ as “mighty God” (Isa 9:6)

"*** ip-1 chap. 10 pp. 130-131 The Promise of a Prince of Peace ***
“Mighty God” and “Eternal Father”
25 Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3; Revelation 4:11) In the Scriptures, the word “god” can mean “mighty one” or “strong one.” (Exodus 12:12; Psalm 8:5; 2 Corinthians 4:4) Before Jesus came to earth, he was “a god,” “existing in God’s form.” After his resurrection, he returned to an even higher position in the heavens. (John 1:1; Philippians 2:6-11) Further, the designation “god” carries an additional implication. Judges in Israel were called “gods”—once by Jesus himself. (Psalm 82:6; John 10:35) Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed Judge, “destined to judge the living and the dead.” (2 Timothy 4:1; John 5:30) Clearly, he is well named Mighty God.

JL: ALSO NOTICE and continue with Rev1:4-8; Rv1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests** to serve his **God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Tell me who is coming? Who was pierced? Verse 8 says God the Almighty is coming, but only ONE is coming. Our Lord and Almighty God Jesus Christ.
END QUOTE

First–did you notice in your own quote Jesus has a God?

REV 1:1-4 shows that there are 4 personages talking in The Revelation. Did you read my post?

AGAIN…John to the seven congregations that are in the [district of] Asia: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,”

The Almighty is Coming Rev !:8…

This is the first of three times in Revelation that Jehovah himself speaks from heaven. (See also Revelation 21:5-8; 22:12-15.)

Who was pierced?

No doubt John was here reminded of Jesus’ earlier prophecy concerning the conclusion of the system of things. Jesus there stated: “Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:3,*30) Thus, Jesus ‘comes’ **by turning his attention to the executing of Jehovah’s judgments on the nations. **This will result in momentous changes on earth, and since “all the tribes of the earth” have ignored the reality of Jesus’ kingship, they will indeed experience “the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.”—Revelation 19:11-21; Psalm 2:2, 3, 8, 9.

During Jesus’ last evening with his disciples, he told them: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more.” (John 14:19) How is it, then, that “every eye will see him”? We should not expect that Jesus’ enemies would see him with physical eyes, for the apostle Paul said, after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, that Jesus now “dwells in unapproachable light,” and “not one of men has seen or can see” him. (1Timothy 6:16) Evidently, John meant “see” in the sense of “discern,” just as we can see, or discern, God’s invisible qualities by means of his creations. (Romans 1:20) Jesus “is coming with the clouds” in that he will be just as invisible to the naked eye as the sun is when it is behind clouds. Even when the sun is hidden by clouds during daytime, we know it is there because of the daylight that surrounds us. Similarly, though the Lord Jesus is invisible, he will be revealed like ‘a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not obey the good news about him.’ These too will be compelled to “see him.”—2Thessalonians 1:6-8; 2:8.

Jesus will be ‘seen’ also by “those who pierced him.” Who might these be? When Jesus was executed in 33 C.E., the Roman soldiers pierced him literally. The guilt of that murder was shared by the Jews, for Peter told some of these at Pentecost: “God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you impaled.” (Acts 2:5-11, 36; compare Zechariah 12:10; John 19:37.) Those Romans and Jews have now been dead for close to 2,000 years. So those who ‘pierce him’ today must represent nations and peoples that display the same hateful attitude that was shown when Jesus was impaled. Jesus is no longer here on earth. But when opposers either actively persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses, who bear witness to Jesus, or passively consent to such treatment, it is just as though such opposers were ‘piercing’ Jesus himself.—Matthew 25:33, 41-46.

Continued…