Sola Scriptura questions

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If you stop and reason for a minute you can figure it out.

Eve represents the weaker vessel or the flesh.

You know that the flesh is weak right?

Adam is the spirit breath of God breath into the vessel of clay (The weaker vessel) and from it was the first marriage between heaven and earth creating a living soul.

That living soul is called Adam.

Now, ref: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (Clay vessel = Eve)and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (conscience and spirit = Adam) and man became a living soul. (Marriage of the two.

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called** their** name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Of course, this information is not something that a child should first learn about, so the story in the bible about Adam and Eve is simple enough for a child to understand.

But afterwords :1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Are we there yet?

Blessings,AJ

This is just wild speculation with no solid foundation.

Why bother?

 

[look3467]

I was thinking the same thing, until I realized that his ideas are almost identical to those of the second century gnostics, who also interpreted the scriptures apart from the Apostolic faith. With that realization, and the knowledge that I may never be able to enter into such “depths”, I am prepared to call it “done” in this case.

Well, guanophore, if you should decide to be done with this discussion, I don’t blame you.

But there is some truth to what you said about the gnostic’s because they were able to see things not yet clouded up with mankind’s imaginations.

May I also add that the new testament is like our workbook in study. For in there are the different issues addressed in order to keep the believers close at hand and not be carried away by some other doctrine.

The issue of abortion for one, is not addressed, DNA tempering, outer space explorations etc.

Those things we have to work them out in light of God’s word as our judgment call.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

This is just wild speculation with no solid foundation.

Why bother?

That’s your judgment call!

Blessings, AJ

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

That’s your judgment call!

Blessings, AJ

No, it is an accurate assessment. I can read the words of scripture. Your words have nothing to do with what is written in the bible.

God breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam, giving him life.

 

[PRmerger]

This is just wild speculation with no solid foundation.

Indeed.

One who interprets Scripture apart from the teaching of the Apostles will come up with all sorts of peculiarities:

-Jesus is Michael the archangel reincarnated
-we cannot receive blood transfusions
-the earth is 6 thousand years old
-we can become gods on our own planets after we die

 

[look3467]

No, it is an accurate assessment. I can read the words of scripture. Your words have nothing to do with what is written in the bible.

God breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam, giving him life.

Are male and female both called Adam?

Blessings, AJ

 

[gtrenewed]

First if you don’t have computer access to the bible, try downloading esword. It is free to who ever wants it.

I use it extensively.

John baptized in public and Jesus was baptized by John in public.

What John understood about the baptism, was of a picture of the washing away of sins, cleansing by the baptism of the son of God for the sins of the world.

The real baptism of Jesus was not of water, but of what He was about to endure on the cross: Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

We are also baptized in Jesus, as His baptism, death on the cross is ours also.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We must have knowledge of Jesus to be baptized in Him.

Blessings, AJ

My Strongs concordance book and various translations of Scripture in print form never gave me a virus.

OK, thanks for the explanation. We disagree about baptism’s role in the life of the believer. I’ll say the following and extend grace to your view.

I would just say that John and Jesus were using publicly available water.

This does not explain the Ethiopian eunuch or Paul being baptized nor any of the others in Acts nor how we generally baptize today. Remember, you said you look at Scripture as a picture in the whole and I agree. When I look at the Acts portion of the picture, how the people acted, the public display explanation falls apart.

Yes, Jesus had His cup and baptism, the cross; He also had His water baptism and His Holy Spirit baptism following His water baptism.

Jesus had these things in the physical. We identify with Jesus as we walk as His disciple. In Romans 6:4 Paul is explaining how we initially, physically walk the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and this is from the Father’s perspective - water baptism. That is why it should be a believers baptism, not a ritual washing to scrub away sins from anybody undergoing it.

 

[gtrenewed]

Would you feed a baby a t-bone stake? Of course not, only milk.

Here is the scripture reference: Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Here we see a level of understanding to that of a babe, not yet weaned of the milk of the word. May be a grown up adult in the flesh, yet a babe in Christ.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Heb 5:14 But strong meat (T-bone steak) belongeth to them that are of full age,(spiritually mature) even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Blessings, AJ

Now I will say to you, that you do not know me nor are your powers of discernment very sharpened if you have discerned that I am a babe.

I have been around and I have come across those that claim extraordinary spiritual depth only to find they are nothing more than empty clouds using great swelling words.

I don’t know you and to make a determination on which camp you fall into - truly deep or empty cloud - I would need to talk with you much more and observe the manor of your life. So I will leave it at grace extended to you.

 

[look3467]

Indeed.

One who interprets Scripture apart from the teaching of the Apostles will come up with all sorts of peculiarities:

-Jesus is Michael the archangel reincarnated
-we cannot receive blood transfusions
-the earth is 6 thousand years old
-we can become gods on our own planets after we die

Like I said, I present my views, and it’s your judgment call.

My views are in harmony with the whole of the works of God, not necessarily the works of mankind.

A very simple formula: Mankind’s steps from cradle to the grave.

1. Creation
2. Fall
3. Judgment
4. Punishment

Unless, the Son of God go through the same thing, and takes our portion of the punishment (4) for the whole, then there is absolutely no hope for mankind.

What is the key to understanding the works of God is, not mankind’s traditions and imaginations, but how God is explained as the creator and the Savior of His creation.

In between those two is mankind’s behavioral problems, of which are addressed accordingly, as knowledge in Gods work is increased.

As you said, anything can be interpreted many different ways, but are they in harmony with the works of God?

The Apostles were an on the Job training as led by the Holy Spirit to address the issues which would prevent some of the Jewish converts from going back to some of their Jewish traditions, to where they could again become entanglered there in.

Blessings, AJ.

 

[gtrenewed]

No sir! Casting pearls before swine are those who would have the least bit interest in Godly things.

This fourm, though may have some interesting characters of differing views, are definitely not in the category of swine, but rather those interested in the deeper things of God.

Now you really are confusing me? First you say you can’t share deep things because you will go to hell and now you say this forum is to share deep things?

I never meant they were swine, I was just trying to give you a Scriptural way out of your non-scrptural statement that you would be condemned for sharing deep things!

The breath of God is Adam.
The body is Eve.
The living soul is you, (Character)of which in Jesus, you are a living spirited soul.
The body dies, but your soul’s spirit lives on.
Blessings, AJ

If this is an example of deep, you need to come up for air! The Scriptures you use for the basis of this theory fall apart when you compare them against one another.

Of course Adam was created complete that is why Eve comes out of Adam and not out of separate clay.

We know that when Adam was cast out of God’s presence, he was pronounced dead but he still had a body and soul that were alive. He still had knowledge of God. His children had knowledge of God. And so on but their spirit was disconnected from God, they died spiritually. They could only worship in the physical using their soul.

When faith comes in Jesus, we are reborn. Our spirit is reconnected with God, who is a Spirit, and we have new spiritual life. Of course our soul is touched by this event and even our bodies at times but our body must die in order to be reborn at the coming of Jesus. Now we can worship God in spirit and in truth.

Adam was still physically alive when the breath of God was taken away, so the breath of God cannot be Adam, it was the spiritual life part of Adam, along with his soul, and his body. Eve cannot be the body for sin resides in the body and the sin was ultimately with Adam.

Again, I would not come to this conclusion of distinct spirit, soul, and body unless Scripture taught it, 1Thess 5:23. If soul and spirit were interchangeable, Paul would have used one or the other along with body. While this identifies us with the Trinity, it is wrong to try to equate a certain part of us to a certain member of the Trinity.

 

[look3467]

Now I will say to you, that you do not know me nor are your powers of discernment very sharpened if you have discerned that I am a babe.

I have been around and I have come across those that claim extraordinary spiritual depth only to find they are nothing more than empty clouds using great swelling words.

I don’t know you and to make a determination on which camp you fall into - truly deep or empty cloud - I would need to talk with you much more and observe the manor of your life. So I will leave it at grace extended to you.

The form in which I used the word “Babe in Christ” was not directed at you, but rather to describe a newborn adult person just beginning the walk with God.

My reference then is to indicate that a mature spiritual individual would understand the deeper things of God, if that were the desire of the individual.

My references are from that level of thinking, though foreign to many.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Now you really are confusing me? First you say you can’t share deep things because you will go to hell and now you say this forum is to share deep things?>>>gtrenewed

I never said anybody will go to hell. Find that for me and quote it back to me.

Deeper truths are not readily acceptable, for many are out of the norm.

Take for example the 4 beast with six wings in the book of Revelation, what suppose the symbolism of it means?

You find me an answer through the normal channels and I’ll wait for your response.

Many on this forum are here hopefully to either learn something new, or to present their own views on issues.

Any other motive would be self-righteous.(like in condemning other points of view)

Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

. My views are in harmony with the whole of the works of God, not necessarily the works of mankind.

Your views are NOT in harmony with the teachings of the Apostles.

What is the key to understanding the works of God is, not mankind’s traditions and imaginations, but how God is explained as the creator and the Savior of His creation.

We understand the works of God (i.e what is proclaimed in Scripture) by how God is proclaimed in Scripture?

 

[look3467]

Your views are NOT in harmony with the teachings of the Apostles.

We understand the works of God (i.e what is proclaimed in Scripture) by how God is proclaimed in Scripture?

Works of God, can you define them?

How is God proclaimed in the scriptures?

I just want to know as a challenge, that’s all.

Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

Works of God, can you define them?

I have no idea how you’re defining them! You made the statements, so I’m trying to grasp your meaning here:

What is the key to understanding the works of God is, not mankind’s traditions and imaginations, but how God is explained as the creator and the Savior of His creation.

How is God proclaimed in the scriptures?

He is proclaimed through the teachings of the Catholic Church, which provided you with the Scriptures through its Sacred Tradition.

 

[gtrenewed]

The form in which I used the word “Babe in Christ” was not directed at you, but rather to describe a newborn adult person just beginning the walk with God.

My reference then is to indicate that a mature spiritual individual would understand the deeper things of God, if that were the desire of the individual.

My references are from that level of thinking, though foreign to many.

Blessings, AJ

I am not sure why you would bring that up when replying to a quote from me unless it was directed at me?

The deep things of God that we can understand in this life will be consistant with Scripture. That is the example of the prophets, they addressed circumstances in their present tense and also foretold of Jesus.

When you bring a teaching such as you have, Scripture says it is subject to scrutiny. We can get many different ideas as the layers of Scripture become open to us but we must heed the scrutiny of others and let go of those things that are false.

Sometimes the layers of Scripture are mentally discerned even though we think them spiritually discerned. We must be humble enough to let them go. Just because we have people that disagree does not mean that we are necessarily wrong though. However, we must be a Berean and diligently search the Scriptures to see if it be so.

By listening to “deep things”, I got caught up in a cult-like group for several years. Even though I was young in the Lord, I had studied Scripture intently and it was the Word of God that set me free. I did not have to escape, they kicked me out because Scripture brought light to their deeds.

That is why I keep pressing for Scripture and not just words. By Scripture, I don’t necessarily mean chapter and verse for I can recognize Scriptural thought most of the time. When I can’t, I ask!

If someone does not understand what you are saying, it does not mean they are not mature nor seeking maturity; it may be that you are full of “hooey” in what you are saying.

Share your ideas but stop with the veiled language of spiritual superiority.

You never did Scripturally defend your claim of going to hell by sharing deep things.

Go to my post #384 where I quote you and that should lead you back to your post.

 

[look3467]

I have no idea how you’re defining them! You made the statements, so I’m trying to grasp your meaning here:

He is proclaimed through the teachings of the Catholic Church, which provided you with the Scriptures through its Sacred Tradition.

Works of God.
A. Creator
1, Beginnings of creation
2. The fall of mankind in His creation.
3. His judgment on the fall.
4. His punishment.

B. Savior

1. Became as one of us, introduction of Jesus
2. Took the sins of the world in our behalf = Fallen
3. Was judged as fallen and penalty issued
4. Punishment meted, death on the cross.

Those are God’s works defined in the whole of His word.

Now, in between all that, is the acts of mankind lost(Fallen), punishment due and a death sentence pronounced.As in A above.

As in B above, God initiates salvation upon that which was lost.

Those are God’s works basic.

God continues to work 24/7 in our lives via His Holy Spirit.

Since God having done B above, we are now liberated from the death sentence of eternal death and can concentrate on living in the new creation, of which there is no falling, no Judgment and no punishment.

Yet, we still are in the physical of which we are still accountable for our own actions, due and payable here while we live.

Blessings, AJ

 

[gtrenewed]

I never said anybody will go to hell. Find that for me and quote it back to me.

I used a reply with quote in my post #384 where I quoted you saying you would go to hell for revealing some of the deep things of God that you know!

Deeper truths are not readily acceptable, for many are out of the norm.

Always consistant with Scripture!

Many on this forum are here hopefully to either learn something new, or to present their own views on issues.

Any other motive would be self-righteous.(like in condemning other points of view)

Blessings, AJ

Because you are challenged does not mean self-righteousness of the challenger. The Bereans were noble for searching out the truth. You claim too much authority if you believe you cannot be challenged.

You can have your point of view but be prepared to back it up!

 

[look3467]

You never did Scripturally defend your claim of going to hell by sharing deep things. >>>gtrenewed

Not one mention of the word hell in that post?
#384
Blessings, AJ

 

[PRmerger]

Works of God.
A. Creator
1, Beginnings of creation
2. The fall of mankind in His creation.
3. His judgment on the fall.
4. His punishment.

B. Savior

1. Became as one of us, introduction of Jesus
2. Took the sins of the world in our behalf = Fallen
3. Was judged as fallen and penalty issued
4. Punishment meted, death on the cross.

Those are God’s works defined in the whole of His word.

It’s peculiar that you cited not a single Scripture verse to support your claim.

But, ok. I have no argument with those things listed being the Works of God and Works of the Savior. (Except for the part about Jesus being “judged as fallen”–yikes!)

Now, in between all that, is the acts of mankind lost(Fallen), punishment due and a death sentence pronounced.As in A above.

As in B above, God initiates salvation upon that which was lost.

Those are God’s works basic.

God continues to work 24/7 in our lives via His Holy Spirit.

Since God having done B above, we are now liberated from the death sentence of eternal death and can concentrate on living in the new creation, of which there is no falling, no Judgment and no punishment.

Yet, we still are in the physical of which we are still accountable for our own actions, due and payable here while we live.

Blessings, AJ

Nothing contrary to the teachings of the Apostles here either, upon a cursory reading of it. (except for the part of which there is no falling, no judgment and no punishment which is clearly contrary to Scripture).

I think it reflects a basic catechism.