Sola Scriptura questions

[look3467]

And what were all the above verses before? Words spoken ORALLY and TAUGHT orally…later penned on vellum/parchment.

BTW: The Bible never says or teaches that the Word of God is binded to written words alone.

What is it that you would prefer, the spiritual significance of the message in the bible or the traditional humanistic view?

What we are comparing here is apples and oranges.

The spiritual content of the message in the bible is not the story line, but stories used to convey a spiritual message that can only be seen when one is born of God.

What you are arguing here verse what I am, is that apart from the Catholic Church there is no salvation, that the scriptures alone will not lead one to salvation.

I know, and I believe that the scriptures alone will lead one’s soul to the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Now, if one prefers to be a Catholic, a Mormon or any other belief for that matter, jesus covers them all.

blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

What is it that you would prefer, the spiritual significance of the message in the bible or the traditional humanistic view?

What we are comparing here is apples and oranges.

The spiritual content of the message in the bible is not the story line, but stories used to convey a spiritual message that can only be seen when one is born of God.

What you are arguing here verse what I am, is that apart from the Catholic Church there is no salvation, that the scriptures alone will not lead one to salvation.

I know, and I believe that the scriptures alone will lead one’s soul to the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Now, if one prefers to be a Catholic, a Mormon or any other belief for that matter, jesus covers them all.

blessings, AJ

Then you are gambling with your salvation because I want you to point to me in scripture were Jesus taught in regards to salvation:

The **scriptures alone **will lead one’s soul to the saving Grace of God.

Jesus founded a Church as well and to believe His church is not part of salvation is pure ignorance of salvation and scripture.

 

[look3467]

Then you are gambling with your salvation because I want you to point to me in scripture were Jesus taught in regards to salvation:

The **scriptures alone **will lead one’s soul to the saving Grace of God.

Jesus founded a Church as well and to believe His church is not part of salvation is pure conjecture.

There is no gamble with my soul, for I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus paid the price with His blood for my soul.

I rely on what Jesus said and not anyone else.

Ref: Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I don’t have to labor any more for I have found rest for my soul and that is in Jesus.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I’ll continue later, gotta go to work.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

There is no gamble with my soul, for I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus paid the price with His blood for my soul.

I rely on what Jesus said and not anyone else.

Ref: Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I don’t have to labor any more for I have found rest for my soul and that is in Jesus.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

I’ll continue later, gotta go to work.

Blessings, AJ

Jesus death on the cross is redemption,not guaranteed salvation. Every human was redeemed,but not all will be saved.

BTW Chapter and verse where Jesus taught on salvation: Scripture-alone will save you.

 

[look3467]

Jesus death on the cross is redemption,not guaranteed salvation. Every human was redeemed,but not all will be saved.

If every person was redeemed then you must finish the sentence by saying every person will be saved is consitant.

Otherwise you are contradicting the two.

If you read the bible through once, twice and reference it many times over you will come to the conclusion that Jesus came to save “that which was lost”.

What was lost is all of humanity. The question you have to ask yourself is: does God save all of humanity since humanity had no choice in the matter?

Eating of the fruit of the tree was not disobedience, but being in a state to become disobedient was no choice of mankind.

It was a process that could not be accomplished without that ability, so humanity became lost because of it.

When you read the account in Genesis about the two trees, the one with held from Adam and Eve is the one presented to mankind as Jesus.

Mankind can now reach and eat of that tree and attain salvation when presented and understood as such.

For all those prior to Jesus, Jesus visited them in prison and liberated all of them.

Now, that sounds more like a loving God verses a God who would condemn us with a blink of an eye.

We must look at the whole picture and not at any individual items in the picture to come to what the picture really means.

BTW Chapter and verse where Jesus taught on salvation: Scripture-alone will save you.

If I said a glass is half empty, and another says, its half full, does it imply that the glass does have something in it?

The bible gives us the ingredient for salvation which is in Jesus, the tree of life, that for some is viewed as not quite all that is needed, and for others like me, is all that is needed.

But regardless of which way anybody wants to look at it, the main ingredient is that God provided salvation to all mankind as a free gift.

So there is no need to work for it.

What we do have to work for, by the way consequences included, is with our own behavior.
It’s either blessings or cursing.

God comes to us in spirit to help us if we make an effort to abide in Him rendering His blessings, but if do what we want rather, then we incur the wrath of the world.

All that I have said comes from the bible as the only real source of truth of God’s character towards us.

It points to Jesus as the center of all there is, and as God, the giver of life to all who would look to Him.

Ref:Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

That is pointing to a future picture of Jesus, hanging on a pole, and who ever is bitten (Called) shall live.

Jesus was cursed in our behalf: Ref:Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Jesus bought the tree of knowledge hook line and sinker for us, and paid for it with His life and soul, as He was cursed and hung on a tree.

How fittingly, that there were two trees in the creation and then again a tree that Jesus hung on, wouldn’t you wonder?

Listen, a child needs its parents for spiritual guidance (The church) but once the child is grown up, (adulthood) the responsibility to continue growing spiritually is theirs.

The bible then becomes their main source of information leading them by the Holy Spirits guidance into a deeper relationship with God.

What wee see in all these forums, people at their different levels of spiritual growth, struggling to understand deeper truths, all along treading with some level of fear of possibly loosing their souls.

There is nothing to fear when we place our lives in the hands of Jesus for He is just to hold us to the bitter end without ever falling.

That is in the bible and I believe it whole heartily and without a doubt in my mind.

I am saved and no one can take that away from me, not even Satan, for I am in Jesus all the way home.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

If every person was redeemed then you must finish the sentence by saying every person will be saved is consitant.

Otherwise you are contradicting the two.

If you read the bible through once, twice and reference it many times over you will come to the conclusion that Jesus came to save “that which was lost”.

What was lost is all of humanity. The question you have to ask yourself is: does God save all of humanity since humanity had no choice in the matter?

Eating of the fruit of the tree was not disobedience, but being in a state to become disobedient was no choice of mankind.

It was a process that could not be accomplished without that ability, so humanity became lost because of it.

When you read the account in Genesis about the two trees, the one with held from Adam and Eve is the one presented to mankind as Jesus.

Mankind can now reach and eat of that tree and attain salvation when presented and understood as such.

For all those prior to Jesus, Jesus visited them in prison and liberated all of them.

Now, that sounds more like a loving God verses a God who would condemn us with a blink of an eye.

We must look at the whole picture and not at any individual items in the picture to come to what the picture really means.

If I said a glass is half empty, and another says, its half full, does it imply that the glass does have something in it?

The bible gives us the ingredient for salvation which is in Jesus, the tree of life, that for some is viewed as not quite all that is needed, and for others like me, is all that is needed.

But regardless of which way anybody wants to look at it, the main ingredient is that God provided salvation to all mankind as a free gift.

So there is no need to work for it.

What we do have to work for, by the way consequences included, is with our own behavior.
It’s either blessings or cursing.

God comes to us in spirit to help us if we make an effort to abide in Him rendering His blessings, but if do what we want rather, then we incur the wrath of the world.

All that I have said comes from the bible as the only real source of truth of God’s character towards us.

It points to Jesus as the center of all there is, and as God, the giver of life to all who would look to Him.

Ref:Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

That is pointing to a future picture of Jesus, hanging on a pole, and who ever is bitten (Called) shall live.

Jesus was cursed in our behalf: Ref:Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Jesus bought the tree of knowledge hook line and sinker for us, and paid for it with His life and soul, as He was cursed and hung on a tree.

How fittingly, that there were two trees in the creation and then again a tree that Jesus hung on, wouldn’t you wonder?

Listen, a child needs its parents for spiritual guidance (The church) but once the child is grown up, (adulthood) the responsibility to continue growing spiritually is theirs.

The bible then becomes their main source of information leading them by the Holy Spirits guidance into a deeper relationship with God.

What wee see in all these forums, people at their different levels of spiritual growth, struggling to understand deeper truths, all along treading with some level of fear of possibly loosing their souls.

There is nothing to fear when we place our lives in the hands of Jesus for He is just to hold us to the bitter end without ever falling.

That is in the bible and I believe it whole heartily and without a doubt in my mind.

I am saved and no one can take that away from me, not even Satan, for I am in Jesus all the way home.

Blessings, AJ

Wrong! The belief ALL are saved is a novel belief embedded in modern circles. If ALL are saved,then why even have the existence of Hell? Why would Jesus continue to intercede for us? Where did Jesus guarantee everyone salvation and no one will end up in Hell?

All that I have said comes from the bible as the only real source of truth of God’s character towards us.

Where does the Bible say it is the only real source of truth? Where does Bible say everything God ever said and did is only in the Bible?

 

[look3467]

Wrong! The belief ALL are saved is a novel belief embedded in modern circles. If ALL are saved,then why even have the existence of Hell? Why would Jesus continue to intercede for us? Where did Jesus guarantee everyone salvation and no one will end up in Hell?
Where does the Bible say it is the only real source of truth? Where does Bible say everything God ever said and did is only in the Bible?

“The belief ALL are saved is a novel belief”…

Not to my understanding, but everyone must come to their on conclusions.

Hell was an invention to scare the hell out of people.
Note the following verses: 1. 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Those held without ransom until Christ.

1. Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Both physical and spirituals. In the physical sense that many were bound by the traditions, the laws of the Old Testament requirements as held captive by them.
They needed liberating into the grace of God.

Spiritually, Jesus went to the place where they were held captive to announce their liberty having paid the price for their souls.

Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

That place is termed hell, as a place where God does not exist and a place of eternal punishment.

1. The gates of hell and of heaven are broken by Christ: Psa 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

Brass of things heavenly and Iron things earthly as in the gates of hell.

Isa 38:10 I said in the cutting off of my days, (Jesus’ days cut short) I shall go to the gates of the grave: (The prison where Jesus went to visit) I am deprived of the residue of my years.

1Sa 20:21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the LORD liveth.

That is referencing the nation of Israel. Note: expressly?

Then us: By the word beyond: 1Sa 20:36 And he said unto his lad, Run, find out now the arrows which I shoot. And as the lad ran, he shot an arrow beyond him.

As in: Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

You see, God left no one out.

Now, if you are not convinced, then it’s OK to believe in a hell.

Many folk need to believe there is a hell in order for them to live right.

What God wants is not fear, but a love for Him that enables us to want to live right rather than having to.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Where does the Bible say it is the only real source of truth? Where does Bible say everything God ever said and did is only in the Bible?

First and above all else, there has to be faith.

Without faith in God the bible is totally useless.

Here is what Paul said:Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, **thou shalt be saved.
**
If you can faith in those words based on all that you have read about our Lords sacrifice, then you are trusting, relying in faith that it is truth, and that you shalt be saved.

What else is required?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Nicea325]

Not to my understanding, but everyone must come to their on conclusions.

Hell was an invention to scare the hell out of people.
Note the following verses: 1. 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Those held without ransom until Christ.

1. Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Both physical and spirituals. In the physical sense that many were bound by the traditions, the laws of the Old Testament requirements as held captive by them.
They needed liberating into the grace of God.

Spiritually, Jesus went to the place where they were held captive to announce their liberty having paid the price for their souls.

Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

That place is termed hell, as a place where God does not exist and a place of eternal punishment.

1. The gates of hell and of heaven are broken by Christ: Psa 107:16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

Brass of things heavenly and Iron things earthly as in the gates of hell.

Isa 38:10 I said in the cutting off of my days, (Jesus’ days cut short) I shall go to the gates of the grave: (The prison where Jesus went to visit) I am deprived of the residue of my years.

1Sa 20:21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the LORD liveth.

That is referencing the nation of Israel. Note: expressly?

Then us: By the word beyond: 1Sa 20:36 And he said unto his lad, Run, find out now the arrows which I shoot. And as the lad ran, he shot an arrow beyond him.

As in: Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

You see, God left no one out.

Now, if you are not convinced, then it’s OK to believe in a hell.

Many folk need to believe there is a hell in order for them to live right.

What God wants is not fear, but a love for Him that enables us to want to live right rather than having to.

Blessings, AJ

Hell was an invention to scare the hell out of people.

So Hell does not exist? Are you truly Christian? So Jesus was merely pulling our leg about Hell? In other words, Jesus basically said in a nut shell everyone will be saved and no one truly goes to Hell.

No wonder why we have thousand of different churches teaching different things.

 

[Nicea325]

First and above all else, there has to be faith.

Without faith in God the bible is totally useless.

Here is what Paul said:Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, **thou shalt be saved.
**
If you can faith in those words based on all that you have read about our Lords sacrifice, then you are trusting, relying in faith that it is truth, and that you shalt be saved.

What else is required?

Blessings, AJ

And to bad nothing you posted answered the question.

One more time:

Where does the Bible teach it is the ONLY-REAL source of Truth?

 

[Javl]

Look3467:

I have been reading the posts of your “debate” with Nicea325. Putting in my :twocents: may I ask you why did Jesus establish a Church and what was His purpose in having Apostles?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Nicea325]

Look3467:

I have been reading the posts of your “debate” with Nicea325. Putting in my :twocents: may I ask you why did Jesus establish a Church and what was His purpose in having Apostles?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Apparently Look3467 believes Hell was invented? Truly sad to hear someone say they are Christian; and yet, he or she believes Hell is an innovation and the everyone is saved? uch:

 

[Javl]

Apparently Look3467 believes Hell was invented? Truly sad to hear someone say they are Christian; and yet, he or she believes Hell is an innovation and the everyone is saved? uch:

Yes, that is the result of “sola scriptura” and “bible sufficiency”. Individual Protestant Christians interpret the Bible and reject those teachings of Jesus and the Apostles which they don’t like, disagree with, or doesn’t fit their idea of salvation. It truly is a shame that they ignore the warning of St. Peter when he said that they “wrest the scriptures to the peril of their soul”. I hate to be in their shoes when they come up before Jesus to answer the question “Why?”. Anyway, I pray for them all.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[look3467]

So Hell does not exist? Are you truly Christian? So Jesus was merely pulling our leg about Hell? In other words, Jesus basically said in a nut shell everyone will be saved and no one truly goes to Hell.

No wonder why we have thousand of different churches teaching different things.

While Jesus was on earth nothing had changed, everything was as it were.
Not until Jesus died and was resurrected did the change come.

So, Jesus had to reference what was then view but also stated of the things to come.

Ref: Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

First all things as they were had to be accomplished as they were in order to make a change.
Ref: Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. (Not before)

Here is what was needed for Jesus to make the change:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

1.finish the transgression,= end it.2. to make an end of sins = pay for them

1. to make reconciliation for iniquity = to reclaim

4.to bring in everlasting righteousness, = usher in God’s righteouness as a gift

5.to seal up the vision and prophecy, = make it for all time

1. and to anoint the most Holy. = crown received.
2. Rested from all His works.

All those things being accomplished, the change came.

Hel has been visited, emptied and the righteousness of God given.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Apparently Look3467 believes Hell was invented? Truly sad to hear someone say they are Christian; and yet, he or she believes Hell is an innovation and the everyone is saved? uch:

Do your own research and find out. When was the term heaven and hell instituded?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Dokimas]

Yes, that is the result of “sola scriptura” and “bible sufficiency”. Individual Protestant Christians interpret the Bible and reject those teachings of Jesus and the Apostles which they don’t like, disagree with, or doesn’t fit their idea of salvation. It truly is a shame that they ignore the warning of St. Peter when he said that they “wrest the scriptures to the peril of their soul”. I hate to be in their shoes when they come up before Jesus to answer the question “Why?”. Anyway, I pray for them all.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

That’s funny. The Bible speaks of hell and I believe the Bible. Strange.

 

[Nicea325]

While Jesus was on earth nothing had changed, everything was as it were.
Not until Jesus died and was resurrected did the change come.

So, Jesus had to reference what was then view but also stated of the things to come.

Ref: Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

First all things as they were had to be accomplished as they were in order to make a change.
Ref: Act 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. (Not before)

Here is what was needed for Jesus to make the change:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

1.finish the transgression,= end it.2. to make an end of sins = pay for them

1. to make reconciliation for iniquity = to reclaim

4.to bring in everlasting righteousness, = usher in God’s righteouness as a gift

5.to seal up the vision and prophecy, = make it for all time

1. and to anoint the most Holy. = crown received.
2. Rested from all His works.

All those things being accomplished, the change came.

Hel has been visited, emptied and the righteousness of God given.

Blessings, AJ

WHAT? Are you serious? Where are you getting such distorted interpretations? Sorry,but I do not accept your interpretations. So Hell did not exist until Christ died? So why where the rebellious angels in Hell,if it had not come to exist yet?

 

[look3467]

Look3467:

I have been reading the posts of your “debate” with Nicea325. Putting in my :twocents: may I ask you why did Jesus establish a Church and what was His purpose in having Apostles?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Jesus established His church as believers.

Now believers are those who believe in the salvation of God by Jesus and are born again new creatures.

The Apostle Paul went to establish the churches as he addressed them separately.

Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

The believers as a church became fearful.

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Persecution against the believers as a church

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

Again of the believers.

The church is addressed as a body of believers residing in a building called a church.

As in " what church do you belong to" verses what beliefs do you have.

When Jesus said to Peter, upon this rock, is meant that upon this faith that Peter had constituted what a believer is that Jesus’ church is established.

The 12 Apostles, 12 in number represent the 12 tribes of Israel, also representing the earthly organizational number.

12 is the number to include the whole world while 10 is a heavenly number, as in the Ten Commandments.

Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the Catholic churches contribution of the bible, but better yet, I want to give God the glory, the praise for His moving man to write, compile and educate the world about His works.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

That’s funny. The Bible speaks of hell and I believe the Bible. Strange.

Yes it does speak of hell as a pit, as a grave and as a prison.

Jesus went to the pitsa 28:1 Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Did God answer Jesus at the cross? Yes, He did with silence. Which meant, you must go because that’s what I want, was the answer. Not said specifically, but implied.

Jesus went to hell: Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus’ grave = tomb

Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?

The new creation started at the resurrection after those in hell, pit, grave were set at liberty.

The devil is staid to believe in the bible too, but does he understand it?

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

WHAT? Are you serious? Where are you getting such distorted interpretations? Sorry,but I do not accept your interpretations. So Hell did not exist until Christ died? So why where the rebellious angels in Hell,if it had not come to exist yet?

I am serious as life. Those held in prison were held in a holding place because until Jesus, there was no escape, no redemption.

That place was a place where all departed soul went to.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Was there anyone left?

Blessings, AJ