Sola Scriptura

[brkn1]

To any Protestant who’s read this far: Before drawing yourself up in umbrage and banging out a heated reply, heed the words of the Scriptures: " A wise man will hear and increase learning;" “the heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge;” “good understanding gains favour.”

As such, I challenge one and all, before replying, to thoughtfully and carefully read what we Catholics and Orthodox really believe about the holy images, as expressed in the Apologia of John of Damascus. If you aren’t interested in giving us a fair and reasonable treatment, then we’re all basically wasting our breath here. If you are interested in giving us a fair and reasonable treatment, it is wise and prudent to know what we really teach and believe, and thus y’all will take the time to read it.

Pax,

–Seraphim

<A wise man will hear and increase learning;> does not necessarily apply to books outside of Scripture.

“And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.”
Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecc.12:12,13)

The Bible says not to bow down before any idols.
You say not all images are idols, which is true.
You say bowing down to an image is not necessarily worship either, which gives me cause to pause.
I have seen pictures of one of your Popes bowing prostrate before a statue of Mary.
You say the Bible does not indicate that this is worship.
Still, if it is not worship, it sure appears to outsiders as being so.
We must avoid even the appearance of doing so and I bet that is in the Bible somewhere too, since it comes to mind.
“Abstain from all appearance of evil”. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
I already know what the reply will likely be:
It will start with the “HOW DARE YOU…!!!”

It is in God’s Word and that is why I dare to say so.

 

[Gamera]

<A wise man will hear and increase learning;> does not necessarily apply to books outside of Scripture.

“And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.”
Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecc.12:12,13)

The Bible says not to bow down before any idols.
You say not all images are idols, which is true.
You say bowing down to an image is not necessarily worship either, which gives me cause to pause.
I have seen pictures of one of your Popes bowing prostrate before a statue of Mary.
You say the Bible does not indicate that this is worship.
Still, if it is not worship, it sure appears to outsiders as being so.
We must avoid even the appearance of doing so and I bet that is in the Bible somewhere too, since it comes to mind.
“Abstain from all appearance of evil”. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
I already know what the reply will likely be:
It will start with the “HOW DARE YOU…!!!”

It is in God’s Word and that is why I dare to say so.

No, I don’t think “How dare you …” is an appropriate reaction. It’s a valid point – outsiders might misunderstand what we do. Obviously, many have – especially in Western culture (unlike, say, Japanese culture, where bowing is a common courtesy). Your point is legitimate.

However, it’s very hard to tell where to draw the line with that kind of thing, because no matter what one does, someone will misunderstand it.

 

[Evlogitos]

brkn1,

Please read the Apologia before replying further. As I said, if you’re interested in discussion, you will educate yourself on the nuance of what we believe. If you’re not interested in discussion, frankly, you have no reason to keep posting except to satisfy your own ego.

That aside:

The Bible says not to bow down before any idols.
You say not all images are idols, which is true.
You say bowing down to an image is not necessarily worship either, which gives me cause to pause.
I have seen pictures of one of your Popes bowing prostrate before a statue of Mary.
You say the Bible does not indicate that this is worship.
Still, if it is not worship, it sure appears to outsiders as being so.
We must avoid even the appearance of doing so and I bet that is in the Bible somewhere too, since it comes to mind.
“Abstain from all appearance of evil”.

Then I assume you’re going to stop saluting the flag, since to an ignorant outsider it could look like nation worship. Try selling that line to a soldier.

Also, while it’s outside the scope of this discussion, almost anything can have the appearance of evil. Prayerfully doing good works can have the appears of attempting works-salvation. A women with an uncovered face, to a conservative Middle Easterner, looks like an harlot. Preaching to the unsaved can have the appearance of bigoted intolerance. In Mexico, where I’m from, we have a saying: “If you try to make everyone happy, you will make no one happy.” As such, given that showing respect to the holy images is a good thing, done with good intentions, with many people willing to explain their good reasons for doing so… I cannot accept “it looks evil to some people” as a valid criticism.

Peace. Go read the Apologia.

 

[brkn1]

brkn1,

Please read the Apologia before replying further. As I said, if you’re interested in discussion, you will educate yourself on the nuance of what we believe. If you’re not interested in discussion, frankly, you have no reason to keep posting except to satisfy your own ego.

That aside:

Then I assume you’re going to stop saluting the flag, since to an ignorant outsider it could look like nation worship. Try selling that line to a soldier.

Also, while it’s outside the scope of this discussion, almost anything can have the appearance of evil. Prayerfully doing good works can have the appears of attempting works-salvation. A women with an uncovered face, to a conservative Middle Easterner, looks like an harlot. Preaching to the unsaved can have the appearance of bigoted intolerance. In Mexico, where I’m from, we have a saying: “If you try to make everyone happy, you will make no one happy.” As such, given that showing respect to the holy images is a good thing, done with good intentions, with many people willing to explain their good reasons for doing so… I cannot accept “it looks evil to some people” as a valid criticism.

Peace. Go read the Apologia.

You and your cheering section consider it a valid request that I plod through a considerable volume of words and ideas, so that I can get the “nuance” of what you believe is truth about a topic, which I find so clear already in the Bible.

You dismiss the idea of an expressed command from God having full validity of being biblical just because it was not yet written down at the time it was commanded. I truly fail to see the wisdom of such a conclusion.

Maybe I will get back to you sometime later tomorrow, after this big homework assignment. I should at least be able to give you a book report, even if the discussion goes no further on my part or yours.

Peace

 

[Evlogitos]

You and your cheering section consider it a valid request that I plod through a considerable volume of words and ideas, so that I can get the “nuance” of what you believe is truth about a topic, which I find so clear already in the Bible.

So basically you say you’re not interested in understanding our point of view, and you’re not interested in open-mindedly learning about other perspectives, just in case your preconceived notions may not be 100%.

So why even bother discussing the issue? You’re not going to persuade us about your fairness or level of understanding by refusing to familiarize yourself with the reasoning behind our doctrine. We’re obviously not going to persuade you if you’ve already decided beforehand we have nothing worth saying. So why’re you still hanging around?

You dismiss the idea of an expressed command from God having full validity of being biblical just because it was not yet written down at the time it was commanded. I truly fail to see the wisdom of such a conclusion.

Ahh, but don’t you see it’s all a matter of perspective? To Catholics, the necessity of all Christians being under the guidance of their local bishop is “an expressed command from God” that was not explicitly “written down at the time it was commanded” (that’s the essence of Tradition). So how is it that you’re dismissing it?

In addition, had you bothered to read the Apologia or any of my last several posts in their entirety, you would have seen that Catholics and Orthodox do take the commandment against worshiping idols very seriously. We simply do not believe that paying respect to the holy images is the worship of idols.

This is precisely why I think it’s so important that you take the time to thoughtfully acquaint yourself with the doctrine you’re attempting to condemn. Without full understanding, you will end up doing no more than attacking straw men while leaving unaddressed the real items at issue. And that does nobody any good. On the Protestant side, it promotes misunderstanding; on the Catholic side, it makes folks think you’re ignorant and intolerant.

 

[brkn1]

I have read through the “Apologia of St. John Damascene against those who deny holy images.”

This apologia tries to explain how the “worship of latreia is one thing”, which is reserved for God alone.
But it then tries to explain how the honor (worship) “which is given to merit” is entirely different.
John tries to further explain the difference in worship by this statement: “You see the one thing to be aimed at is not to adore a created thing more than the Creator, nor to give the worship of latreia except to Him alone.”
The qualification of the difference explained by this statement can only be found in man’s wisdom and not in the Wisdom of God revealed in the Bible.

John says, “I do not worship matter.”
He later writes the question, “Was not the thrice happy and thrice blessed wood of the cross matter?”
Setting the absurdity of the question aside, I can still see a contradiction in the first statement when put alongside that question. They simply do not go together.

John makes another statement that, “Matter is endued with a divine power through prayer made to those who are depicted in the image.”.
I suppose this statement is how John of D explains away the contradiction. It smacks of mysticism and sorcery to me.

The final result of the mindset presented to defend the use of “holy images” made of matter to aid worship can be found in the prayer to the Virgin Mary at the end of this apopolgia.
“…Do not refuse me a sight of the WOOD on which God the Word, thy Son, suffered according to the flesh, who shed His own precious blood for me. Grant, O Queen, that I may be admitted to worship the sacred CROSS, and I will promise thee as surety to the God whom thou didst bring forth that I will keep myself undefiled. When I see the CROSS of thy Son, I will at once renounce the world, and forthwith follow wherever thou shalt lead.”

It is no longer Christ alone that we are looking to in this prayer, but now the image of the WOOD of the CROSS has become a part of the object of worship.
The promise to follow Mary’s lead also takes away from the only True Object of Worship that such a promise should ever be made to.

“Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else.” (Isaiah 45:22)

 

[brkn1]

I should like to add a little more about images in regards to worship.

If looking on a sacred image is such a good and helpful thing, then how is that the Lord smote fifty thousand and threescore of the men of Bethshemesh, after they dared to look into the ark of the Lord? The desire to get a better visual look upon a physical image had a very bad result here.

The ark of the Lord has not been left as an image to “aid” us now.
It disappeared and was likely destroyed long before Jesus came as a God Man to this earth born of a Virgin. It was not in Herod’s Temple as some suppose.

In (Kings 18:4), Hezekiah destroyed that brasen serpent that Moses was commanded to make after the Israelites began burning incense to it. It had no “imbued” power in it after it served God’s purpose of being an image that saved from death any who looked in faith on it after being bitten by a serpent. A blind person among the crowd would have been just as easily saved by the “looking” towards the serpent on a staff, even though that blind person could not be “aided” with the actual physical seeing of it. It was not worshipping or actually seeing the serpent that saved; it was looking as commanded that saved.

In (Judges 8:27), we see Gideon making an ephod out of the golden earrings from the Ishmaelites they conquered. Only bad came from that as they went whoring after Baalim, and forgot the Lord their God.
Image making, from Cain’s man-made offerring to the golden calf, onto any of the images made without God’s command for worship or use in performing His Will, always leads to the idolatry that caused nothing but grief and desolation for God’s people.

If God commands the use of a symbol or image in worship towards Him, I have no problem with the proper use of that commanded image.
Any image that God did not command and direct us to use properly in worship, should be avoided at all cost. The risk of such man-invented images to aid worship is too evident, when you see what the use of such images always ends up leading to (idolatry) in the Bible.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I agree completely that this thread should fruitfully discuss the merits and logical consistency of Sola Scriptura. Unfortunately, the Protestants who visit here and post do not do so to rationally debate and discuss theological issues. My impression based on this thread is that they come here fueled by irrational hatred of the Church, and apparently, that hatred prevents them from thinking clearly enough to debate the issues.

But, since it is such an important topic, I will take the position of the educated Protestant and give you some Protestant arguments. Just glancing through this material, it doesn’t look like it’s very cogent, but at least it’s a start.

Here’s a website for Church Fathers who taught Sola Scriptura (according to the Protestant source) bible.ca/sola-scriptura-apostolic-fathers-irenaeus.htm

The earliest quotes from this site are attributed to Irenaeus in 180 AD.

“# 1 “We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed “perfect knowledge,” as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)”

The commentary then instructs the Catholic that this quote should “send shivers down their spine” because the ground and pillar of the faith is described by Irenaeus as Scripture.

Given the quote, I think it’s pretty obvious that it does *not * prove Irenaeus held to Sola Scriptura, only that he acknowledges the authority of Scripture. Of course, we do also.

As for the second sentence, this is obviously taken out of context if it is used to somehow implicate Tradition. I don’t know the context of this text, but it appears as if he is criticizing a heretical teaching, such as Gnosticism. He is arguing that we cannot invalidate the Scriptures on the basis of the argument that the preaching was based on “incomplete knowledge”.

Well, of course not. In what way does that implicate Tradition? It does not; it implicates heresy which teaches the gospel is incomplete and imperfect. Catholics acknowledge that the gospel is complete. We do not say that Tradition improves the gospel, or changes the gospel. Tradition expounds upon Biblical principles.

I think we need to understand the Sola Scripture people. this means they do not believe in nothing else but Bible alone. they do not believe our fathers of the Church, they do not believe in history of the Church; they do not believe that Jesus built a Church; they do not believe in Apostolic succession. they do not believe nothing else but the Bible. so no matter what we say about any of these they can not understand none of it. can you blame them for not understanding what we do? no. for they were taught this way. some will come to the Truth soon or later but only by the Grace of God they will see His Church. PEACE>

 

[Evlogitos]

I have read through the “Apologia of St. John Damascene against those who deny holy images.”

I am quite happy. I hope you gave it the due thought and care it deserved.

This apologia tries to explain how the “worship of latreia is one thing”, which is reserved for God alone.
But it then tries to explain how the honor (worship) “which is given to merit” is entirely different.

Indeed. Which is basically what we’ve been saying the whole time. For consistency’s sake, I’ll call the worship of God “adoration,” and the honouring of merit “veneration.”

Going back to a previous example, when you salute the American flag and pledge allegiance to it, this is veneration of the flag and the country, not adoration. It is not the same type of reverence and respect and petition as we would address to God.

The same is true of the holy icons. We give them veneration, as is their due, but never adoration.

John tries to further explain the difference in worship by this statement: “You see the one thing to be aimed at is not to adore a created thing more than the Creator, nor to give the worship of latreia except to Him alone.”

Exactly. There are many things in this world which may be worthy of veneration; but God alone is worthy of adoration.

The qualification of the difference explained by this statement can only be found in man’s wisdom and not in the Wisdom of God revealed in the Bible.

Ah, but it can! You need to know your Bible better, my brother. For example, take Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2:46-47:

Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him. The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.

Now, Nebuchadnezzar is here acknowledging God’s sovereignty; it would be stupid to argue that he’s giving adoration to Daniel at the same time as he’s admitting God’s worthiness. Instead, it’s clear here that Nebuchadnezzar is giving Daniel veneration, as one who has been blessed by God to reveal the truth.

Similarly, Psalms 45:10-11:

Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father’s house; so shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy lord; and worship thou him.

The daughter whom the king marries is expected to “worship” the king. Again, David would hardly be commanding her to give her husband adoration; he is obviously commanding that due honour and veneration be given.

Also, Joshua 5:13-14:

It came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that… behold, there stood a man over against him… Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

Here we see the captain of the host of the Lord–that is, the captain of the host of angels, and thus probably the Archangel Michael (cf. Dan. 10:13, Rev. 12:7)–being “worshiped” by Joshua. Unless we suppose Joshua to suddenly have turned into an idolater, he is here clearly giving due veneration to the captain of the Lord, rather than the adoration reserved for God alone.

And as one last example, see Jacob in Genesis 33:3:

And he [Jacob] passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

Again, clearly he was paying veneration to his brother, and not giving adoration to his brother as God just because he was bowing himself down. Similarly, we who prostrate ourselves before the icons are not giving adoration to the icons, but merely veneration.

So, as you can see, brkn1, the concepts and distinctions that John of Damascus is expressing are very real and very Scriptural, not man-made at all!

John makes another statement that, “Matter is endued with a divine power through prayer made to those who are depicted in the image.”.
I suppose this statement is how John of D explains away the contradiction. It smacks of mysticism and sorcery to me.

This again is purely Scriptural. The Ark of the Covenant was matter, yet endued with divine power. The serpent of brass was matter, yet endued with divine power. The bones of Elisha were matter, yet could raise the dead and work miracles. Same with Paul’s handkerchiefs that cast out demons and healed the sick. Why should the same not be true of the holy images?

“…Do not refuse me a sight of the WOOD on which God the Word, thy Son, suffered according to the flesh, who shed His own precious blood for me. Grant, O Queen, that I may be admitted to worship the sacred CROSS, and I will promise thee as surety to the God whom thou didst bring forth that I will keep myself undefiled. When I see the CROSS of thy Son, I will at once renounce the world, and forthwith follow wherever thou shalt lead.”

It is no longer Christ alone that we are looking to in this prayer, but now the image of the WOOD of the CROSS has become a part of the object of worship.

Oh, puh-leeze. Unless you’ve torn “That Old Rugged Cross” and “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross” out of your Protestant hymnbook, you don’t have a leg to stand on here.

Giving honour to the Cross as a symbol of the magnitude of Christ’s love for us is an old a prayer as Christendom. Paul says he glories solely in the Cross, affirms that he preaches the Cross, says we are persecuted for the sake of the Cross, and tells us not to make the Cross “of none effect.”

 

[Evlogitos]

The promise to follow Mary’s lead also takes away from the only True Object of Worship that such a promise should ever be made to.

Mary’s leadership is not one of divinity, but one of exemplary humanity and humility: “let it be unto me according to Thy will.” Surely you would not scorn someone for saying “I want to follow Mary’s lead in humbly conforming myself to God’s will.”

If looking on a sacred image is such a good and helpful thing, then how is that the Lord smote fifty thousand and threescore of the men of Bethshemesh, after they dared to look into the ark of the Lord? The desire to get a better visual look upon a physical image had a very bad result here.

As far as I can tell from the passage, it wasn’t because they looked at the Ark, but because they “looked into” it, opening it up (which was a great irreverence against God’s commands as to how the Ark was to be treated). This actually ends up being pro-icon, since it demonstrates with what purity and reverence we must treat the holy images lest we provoke God’s wrath. We know that looking at the Ark was not in and of itself a sin or offense, as we know from the fact that David gazed upon it, and it was the duty of the high priest to go before the ark once a year and make an offering, bowing himself down before the Ark (more demonstration of images in worship!).

The ark of the Lord has not been left as an image to “aid” us now.
It disappeared and was likely destroyed long before Jesus came as a God Man to this earth born of a Virgin.

The Fathers of the Church call the Virgin Mary the “New Ark,” since, while the old Ark was the earthly vessel that bore God’s presence, the Virgin was the earthly vessel that bore God’s Incarnation. So how much more should we pay honour and veneration to the New Ark?

In (Kings 18:4), Hezekiah destroyed that brasen serpent that Moses was commanded to make after the Israelites began burning incense to it. It had no “imbued” power in it after it served God’s purpose of being an image that saved from death any who looked in faith on it after being bitten by a serpent. A blind person among the crowd would have been just as easily saved by the “looking” towards the serpent on a staff, even though that blind person could not be “aided” with the actual physical seeing of it. It was not worshipping or actually seeing the serpent that saved; it was looking as commanded that saved.

All pure speculation. And again, it was not the use of the image that was forbidden or sinful, but rather its misuse! The children of Israel had begun worshiping it as a god called Nehushtan. This giving of adoration to a created entity is a totally different situation from giving lawful veneration to a holy image.

In (Judges 8:27), we see Gideon making an ephod out of the golden earrings from the Ishmaelites they conquered. Only bad came from that as they went whoring after Baalim, and forgot the Lord their God.
Image making, from Cain’s man-made offerring to the golden calf, onto any of the images made without God’s command for worship or use in performing His Will, always leads to the idolatry that caused nothing but grief and desolation for God’s people.

Again, this is misuse of images, giving them adoration instead of veneration. We know from the ark, from the cherubim on the tabernacle and in the temple, from the brass serpent, et al., and from the very fact that the Scriptures proclaim Christ as the image of the invisible God, that God does not prohibit the fashioning of images for use in His worship and in His service. We know from the Scriptures that the veneration and honouring of men and angels is not prohibited. Thus, we have no theological reason not to fashion or use the holy images.

Any image that God did not command and direct us to use properly in worship, should be avoided at all cost.

Then why was Solomon not condemned for carving cherubim into the walls of the Temple, and even making two enormous cherubim to overshadow the Ark? These were purely aesthetic decisions on his part. There is NO indication that God commanded or directed their creation. And yet we never hear God chastise him for doing so, nor do we hear that these images were to be avoided, nor do we ever hear that these images were misconstrued or misused.

The risk of such man-invented images to aid worship is too evident, when you see what the use of such images always ends up leading to (idolatry) in the Bible.

Do you think God is an idiot? If the manufacture and use of images always leads to idolatry, why did God command that images be made and used? I mean, it’d be really stupid of God to cure the children of Israel by making an image and giving it miraculous powers if the use of images inevitably leads to idolatry. I guess I have a higher opinion of God’s intelligence and consistency than you do.

And if the veneration of things other than God ends up being idolatry, why do we never see Jacob, Joshua, et al. starting to give unlawful adoration to men, angels, etc.?

Clearly, the Scriptures permit and praise images, but condemn their use as idols. This is in exact harmony with the Catholic and Orthodox beliefs on the issue.



Let us sing praises to John, worthy of great honor,
the composer of hymns, the star and teacher of the Church, the defender of her doctrines:
through the might of the Lord¹s Cross he overcame heretical error
and as a fervent intercessor before God
he entreats that forgiveness of sins may be granted to all.

 

[t68ware]

I think we need to understand the Sola Scripture people. this means they do not believe in nothing else but Bible alone. they do not believe our fathers of the Church, they do not believe in history of the Church; they do not believe that Jesus built a Church; they do not believe in Apostolic succession. they do not believe nothing else but the Bible. so no matter what we say about any of these they can not understand none of it. can you blame them for not understanding what we do? no. for they were taught this way. some will come to the Truth soon or later but only by the Grace of God they will see His Church. PEACE>/QUOTE

You are very correct!! I am Protestant, have studied the Catholic Church for about 2 years, and hope one day to become Catholic. We of the Protestant tradition have been taught Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are teachings from the very beginning of the Church, and we are taught that Catholics are the ones who are misled and do not understand the Bible and tradition. It is very hard for me to discuss Catholic issues with my Protestant friends because their minds are so closed because of what they have been taught since birth. As a Protestant, I have discussed with some Catholics who are fair in their discussions and i have met others who treat me like I have 666 on my forehead. I believe this rift in belief system will continue until the end of history, when Christ makes the final decision as to who enters Heaven.

 

[chi2sy]

What is the Importance of Bible Enthronement? Why Enthrone the Bible?

 

[David89]

I was reading my Bible tonight and stumbled across this verse and I thought it applied to the situation as it reminded me of those who believe in Scripture alone.

“You pore over the scriptures,
believing that in them you can find eternal life;
it is these scriptures that testify to me,
and yet you refuse to come to me to receive life!”
(John 5: 39-40).

To me it shows those who believe in the made up doctrine of sola scriptura by Luther (Protestants) pore over the bible thinking it will give them eternal life. But they refuse to accept the eternal life offered by Jesus, where scripture and the Church he founded shows us where we need to go to get this eternal life as shown as the gospel of John.

“I am the living bread which has come down from heaven.
Anyone who eats this bread will live forever;
And the bread that I shall give is my flesh, for the life of the world.”
(John 6: 51)

[The Jews then question Jesus and they ask how someone can eat his flesh] (John 6:52)

Jesus then tells them what he means. Which is exactly where he said we can find eternal life, not the scriptures themselves as shown in John 5.

“Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood
Has eternal life,
And I shall raise that person up on the last day”
(John 6:54)

Thank you Jesus for showing us the way to your eternal life is not by our own interpretation of scripture:

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20).

And for showing us that you offer us eternal life through the Eucharist. Your body, blood, soul, and divinity. (John 6).

Scripture truly has been fullfilled by protestant man made teachings.

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths” (2 Tim. 4:3–4).