Sola Scriptura

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Ginger? If “only” is the appropriate grammar, then he would have “added” it more times. I’m only aware of him adding it during this one verse. It would seem inconsistent if he only found one occurrence where it was appropriate to add “only”, and an amazing coincidence that it is THE VERSE that supports Luther’s new theology.
How do you know he didn’t add it more times? I’m asking for evidence, not speculation. If there are specific places “only” should have been added by ML’s reasoning, and he didn’t add it, show me.

ML is no hero of mine. I can accept the truth…I want the truth.
 
I don’t this there’s any reason for this. C’mon Guanophore. We can respect one another, even in disagreement.

Nor this.
Well, ok. I was just blown away with the baseless and silly assertions. Then blaming it on Catholics!
ML is no hero of mine. I can accept the truth…I want the truth.
I hope this is true, Ginger2. It sure doesn’t seem like you put much value on truth, posting such ridiculous and misleading assertions.
 
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guanophore:
Although I find the rest of this laughable, I am rather offended by the fact that the Catholic Church made Her traditions superior in authority to the Bible. The Catholic Church’s Magisterium, Her Sacred Tradition, and Her Bible are all equal in authority.
That is the whole problem…if 2 things contradict each other in any manner, then one is superior to the other, or neither of them are. If 2 things are equal in authority, then they must be from the same source…cannot be from same source…too many contradictions. Sola Scriptura…try saying that 5 times fast 🙂

If you need proof as to whether you believe tradition and Magisterium are superior, search the forum…it is full of defense of the Catholic Traditions and Magisterium against what Scripture claims for itself, which is the same as saying what God claims concerning His word…Does God not condemn those who add to His word or not? Did Jesus condemned the Jewish authorities because of “all” their extraneous traditions, which distracted from the Truth?
 
That is the whole problem…if 2 things contradict each other in any manner, then one is superior to the other, or neither of them are. If 2 things are equal in authority, then they must be from the same source…cannot be from same source…too many contradictions. Sola Scriptura…try saying that 5 times fast 🙂
I don’t know where you got this quote, but I don’t think it is mine. I would say that Sacred Tradition and Sacred Tradition never contradict one another, because they are from the same Source. They are two strands of One Divine Deposit of Faith.

I disagree that one “must be superior”. this is the same kind of thinking among the Apostles that Jesus rebuked. They need to work together in unity. If they do not seem to be unified, it is because one does not understand one, the other, or both.
If you need proof as to whether you believe tradition and Magisterium are superior, search the forum.
No, NC, the foundation of my faith is not found in the opinions of debaters on an internet forum, talented and educated as many of them are. The Church teaches that Scripture and Sacred Tradition are equal, and that is what I believe.
it is full of defense of the Catholic Traditions and Magisterium against what Scripture claims for itself,
Well, we see it differently. 😃
For Catholics, there is no “against” between the two. They are a seamless garment of complementarity. It seems that way to those who are separated from the Apostolic Tradition, because they are trying to interpret the scripture outside of it’s contexst, which is the Catholic Church.
which is the same as saying what God claims concerning His word…Does God not condemn those who add to His word or not? Did Jesus condemned the Jewish authorities because of “all” their extraneous traditions, which distracted from the Truth?
For us, there is no “addition”. The SAcred Traditions existed prior to the Word being written. They did not "vanish " after enscripturation.

I will grant that there are man made traditions. These change over time and culture. They are not part of the divine deposit of faith.
 
Sorry but you are wrong. I speak German. Its not a Catholic myth. Luther taught Bible Alone AND Faith Alone.
Amen! There were German language bibles long before Luther, so one should wonder why he suddenly felt the need to insert a word into scripture. He wrote only his translation, which bears his name, just as his church bears his name.
 
Do you speak 16th century German…because I don’t speak 16th century English. Languages can change considerably over time.
Bad comparison. Luther would have spoken High German as an educated man. High German has probably not changed much. I also speak German, and frankly my dialect is Bayerische, and I can read very old documents that were written in that dialect.
This quote is what Luther stated as his reason for using the word “only” (not alone as Catholics claim)
And praytell what is the difference…semantically?
If he was misrepresenting the language, why didn’t the Catholic church point that out? Instead they refer to his sarcasm in partial quotes that give the appearance of trying to mislead. 🤷
He was not misrepresenting the German language…it was his mother tongue and he spoke it fluently. It is you who does not understand the various forms of the word “alone”. “Allein” is but one form of the word alone. Einziger, nur, einzig, eigenen, and ohne are also the word “alone” in English. dictionary.reverso.net/english-german/alone/forced

German is not a language that translates easily to another. There are many “forms” of the same word, but have completely different meanings subjectively as to how they are used. For instance, here is a simple word in English: speed, now click here to see all of the variants in German: dictionary.reverso.net/english-german/speed

mb-soft.com/believe/txc/solafide.htm
bookschristian.com/se/product/books/Martin_Luther/Faith_Alone/258906/Faith_Alone_.html
How many Protestant Bibles do you know of that use the word “alone” in Romans 1:17? I know of zero!
While that statement may have some credence, do you have a copy of Luther’s translation of the bible? Do you have it in High German? quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/l/luther/luther-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4456364 That is a scholars freely accessible on-line posting of Luther’s bible in German. In fact, that is a link to “Romans”, and nowhere within is the word “allein” except…Romans 1:32.

Google the words: Luther faith alone and it will sort out the issue for you…
 
Yes, I agree. How God views it, is what will matter at the end. 😃
Yes, and we won’t know for sure until the end. But in the meantime, I’m going to hedge my bets and follow the Church that Christ left us…
 
Amen! There were German language bibles long before Luther, so one should wonder why he suddenly felt the need to insert a word into scripture. He wrote only his translation, which bears his name, just as his church bears his name.
I am tired of these unsubstantiated claims…

please provide info on the these alleged OLD TESTAMENT Bibles, when they were translated into German, who translated them AND a list of which books were included in each.
**
Then provide your sources of your information**.
 
Bad comparison. Luther would have spoken High German as an educated man. High German has probably not changed much. I also speak German, and frankly my dialect is Bayerische, and I can read very old documents that were written in that dialect.
That must be why Luther explained, “…we must ask the mother in the home, the children on the street, the common person in the market about this. We must be guided by their tongue, the manner of their speech, and do our translating accordingly.”

I believe Luther also mentioned how much time he took to ensure a proper German translation that would be clear to the average German.
He was not misrepresenting the German language…it was his mother tongue and he spoke it fluently.
Thank you.
It is you who does not understand the various forms of the word “alone”.
But I have never claimed to…I am simply stating Luther’s given reason for adding the word “alone”.

If you have a rebuttle from the Church Fathers of that same time, feel free to provide it.
German is not a language that translates easily to another. There are many “forms” of the same word, but have completely different meanings subjectively as to how they are used.
That was in Luther’s explanation. He said he painstakingly search for the exact word (not only in Romans, but in the entire translation) that would portray the sentiments of the original author.

Again, I am going by what Luther said and what the Bishops said. If you have other statements from that time period to counter Luther’s claims. Provide them.
 
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  			Originally Posted by **po18guy** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4598832#post4598832) 				
  		*Amen! There were German language bibles long before Luther, so one should wonder why he suddenly felt the need to insert a word into scripture. He wrote only his translation, which bears his name, just as his church bears his name.*
I am tired of these unsubstantiated claims…

please provide info on the these alleged OLD TESTAMENT Bibles, when they were translated into German, who translated them AND a list of which books were included in each.
**
Then provide your sources of your information**.
Where did po18guy state OLD TESTAMENT Bibles. It seems you’ve added to his words.
 
. The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed – the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable.
How do we know this about the Bible?

Modern liberal theologians seem to be abandoning Scripture as reliably true.
 
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NotWorthy:
Yes, and we won’t know for sure until the end. But in the meantime, I’m going to hedge my bets and follow the Church that Christ left us…
Why bet, when you can know for sure? God doesn’t make it a mystery, but the devil wants us to think so.
 
I am tired of these unsubstantiated claims…

please provide info on the these alleged OLD TESTAMENT Bibles, when they were translated into German, who translated them AND a list of which books were included in each.
**
Then provide your sources of your information**.
Johannes von Gutenberg (1398-1468) printed his bible in 1455, according to the date found on the spine of one example. He was German. He did not change or add words.

Other German bibles, handwritten by scribes, were also in existence even before Gutenberg was born. The scribes did not change or add words. Their work took about one year for each bible.

Martin Luther was born 10 November, 1483. Martin named his own bible, and his church after himself (or permitted the naming of them) and was born after Gutenberg died. He changed the bible to suit his preferences.

It took me two minutes to locate this information, and I am not a researcher.
 
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NotWorthy:
Where did po18guy state OLD TESTAMENT Bibles. It seems you’ve added to his words.It’s kind of a Lutheran “tradition”…
 
Originally Posted by NonCatholic
. The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed – the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable.
I would also like to see an answer to this. Just how do you know, based upon SS alone, that Scripture, (defined as those books contained in the Bible), is true, authoritative, and reliable.

Peace
James
 
Johannes von Gutenberg (1398-1468) printed his bible in 1455, according to the date found on the spine of one example. He was German. He did not change or add words.

Other German bibles, handwritten by scribes, were also in existence even before Gutenberg was born. The scribes did not change or add words. Their work took about one year for each bible.

Martin Luther was born 10 November, 1483. Martin named his own bible, and his church after himself (or permitted the naming of them) and was born after Gutenberg died. He changed the bible to suit his preferences.

It took me two minutes to locate this information, and I am not a researcher.
I need to apologize. I confused this thread with another which is discussing the OT Scriptures. Very sorry for the mix up.

Now, concerning Johannes von Gutenberg, it’s true he was German, but the rest of your information seems to be muddled.

Gutenberg’s was experimenting with printing and printed a translation of Jerome’s Vulgate. I saw nothing to suggest he translated anything. He simply invented some new way of printing and used the Vulgate as a test.

I intended to leave this thread, but thought I should respond due to my inadvertently making the post about the OT.

Having done so, I will say goodbye.
 
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