Absolutely Jesus paid the price, and in themselves the priests are just humans, they have not power except that which is given them by guess who, Jesus Himself. So it isn’t really the priest forgiving you your sin, (the priest is simply the vehicle Jesus uses) it is the priest carrying on the Tradition which Jesus established, and ONLY by His power is sin forgiven.
Alright. The more I hear about this the more I realize that I had alot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church. Another thing that I don’t think has been answered is. The Catholic Church teachings on Salvation. I have heard views that support the teaching that there is no Salvation outside of Christ. However, another church council said that those outside the church are outside of Salvation. Did the church err in the second statement. Or do I just misunderstand.
Consider it from this standpoint. Christ forgives us through men because it’s good for us. It’s good for us to confess our sins out loud, to another. It’s good for us to hear the words of Christ’s forgiveness spoken to us. Then there is no doubt about the nature of our sins, and that fact that they have been forgiven.
Misunderstood, but don’t feel all alone, there is a constant debate in the Church over this, actually a Catholic priest, Fr. Feeny insisted that only “card carrying members of the Church” were saved, he was censured for teaching contrary to official Church teaching. The council did indeed say that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, but more recent councils have defined what they were referring to as outside of the Church. The teaching is that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation, but the “Catholic Church” in this context is the broadest terms, all believers in Jesus, the Catholic Church as the body of Jesus. In this context it is true; there is no salvation “outside” the Church. Under this broad definition Moses was inside the “Catholic Church” even though he predated the institution of the Church militant. It’s a lot to do with the context, also while we’re discussing this we should point out the misconceptions of infallibility. Not every thing the Catholic Church “teaches” is infallible. For example, we are to refrain from eating meat on Fridays, as a communal remembrance of Good Friday, and His sacrifice on the cross. This is “taught’ in one sense, but it is considered a discipline, not a “dogma”, it can change, it can be abolished, and it doesn’t mean the Church erred. Not all issues issued from councils are considered “infallible”, actually very few are. Also papal pronouncements are NOT all infallible; in fact I believe there have only been two infallible papal pronouncements in the past 2,000 years. Kind of makes you wonder what all the fuss about infallibility is about doesn’t it.
I’ve replied to this question here. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=45767&page=3&pp=100
I think this is very misleading. There have only been two infallible SOLEMN papal pronouncements (according to most Catholic theologians). There have been countless ORDINARY UNIVERSAL papal pronouncements which authentically and infallibly expound or defense Catholic doctrine, which is also an exercise of the charism of papal infallibility (cf. canon 750, Code of Canon Law, and *Ad Tuendam Fidem, *par. 2, regarding the assent of faith)
Baloney. Pick a topic for unity among Protestants. Lets hold it up under the light of history and see how much unity there is. Do you need some help? How about Baptism? Infant Baptism? The Lords Supper? Contraception? Women Pastors? OSAS? I could go on and on. And I don’t mean to be mean - I attend (in addition to Mass) an Efree church and play on the worship team. I have read Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology all the way through with a group of Protestant friends and their Pastor. I have many Protestant friends that I love and respect. But if you are honest you will find there are less than 5 points of unity(the 5 solas) and 3 of them are Catholic as well! The other 2 are open to interpretation(Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide) and the implication of them (for example, OSAS) are not agreed upon among Protestants. You’d do better to simply say that Protestants don’t feel the need to agree - they agree to disagree - and they are ok with that.
Here is the point of unity among Protestant denominations. They believe that the Catholic Church is wrong on one or more issues(I say this half jokingly). If you don’t like the teaching of a Protestant church there is a number of churches that you could go to or you could start your own. I don’t suggest starting your own. If you ask two different Catholics what they believe they prob would say different things. There are differing views within any denomination. The Catholic Church is no exception. Now Protestants if they know what is taught by their church will be able to tell you that just as any Catholic. However, that doesn’t mean they believe that. Yeah there is kind of an agreement to disagree on some issues, but we get along with each other. You will notice that the things that Protestants disagree on aren’t really that important but are really trivial. And that is kind of sad.
As a Lutheran, let me ask: you are joking, right? Denial of infant baptism is trivial?
Alright, whatever you believe on those issues doesn’t decide whether or not your going to heaven. I guess I didn’t mean the word trivial. It was the one that I thought of. I guess I was trying to say that we differ in views over the non-essentials.
To Lutherans, if you have to “chose” Christ, you are not going to be saved. It is a matter of salvation.
If you chose Christ then why aren’t you saved? His blood still covers your sin, does it not? Someone thinking that they chose to accept God doesn’t affect Salvation. The important thing is that they accepted. Now if what you are trying to say is that people won’t chose Christ then yes they aren’t saved. It is Christ who gives us Salvation. When he died on the cross. He sends the Holy Spirit to guide and led us. It is by grace that we have faith, and accept Christ’s blood sacrifice. If you deny the Holy Spirit then you are condemned. It is the unforgivable sin. I agree with Calvin on predestination. The Arminians(Protestants who believe in free-will) are not condemned to hell just because they think that they chose God. The mere fact that they chose him is what saves them, just as it is with us.
My point was that NOT every word or teaching is infallible, as some protestants think.
My point was that NOT every word or teaching is infallible, as some protestants think. “The Church says it cannot err in anything that it says”
Yes, that was my point.
In the Catholic view, there is a little more to it than just a one time choice… This is something i posted on another thread concerning “salvation”:
If you go through the thread, you will see that I directed that comment at bjcros in response to his/her statement that the differences among the “protestants” are trivial. My point was that there exists a difference between Lutherans and Evangelicals over how we come to faith. Lutherans find the Evangelical position to be fundamentally wrong and detrimental to salvation.