Sola Scriptura

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RonWI:
My point was not about the Catholic position.
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Yes…I understood that…I was just butting in…

I figured…Catholic forum…I’d give a Catholic perspective…now I’ll go back to minding my own business…
:rolleyes: :o
 
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st_felicity:
Originally Posted by bjcros
*Now if what you are trying to say is that people won’t chose Christ then yes they aren’t saved. *

In the Catholic view, there is a little more to it than just a one time choice… This is something i posted on another thread concerning “salvation”:

Protestants look the word salvation and see it as something that happens during this mortal life to man if he believes–Catholics look at the word salvation and view it as the gift of Christ (freely given at Calvary) but culminating for the individual mortal man at a future event upon his death. We say we are justified through faith (which is a grace) and saved (or not) by God’s judgment upon our death. …“Grace” is needed for faith, which leads to justification, which gives us “confidence” (but not assurance, lest we presume upon God’s mercy) in our **future **salvation.

Catholics DO believe in the once and for all sacrifice of Christ. Nothing more is needed for ultimate salvation. But salvation is a gift of eternity. Eternity is a constant NOW–past present and future all at once.** I cannot experience eternity in my mortal body.** The closest thing to experiencing the eternal gift of salvation I can experience in this mortal body bound by time is to accept the gift and to keep accepting it until I have it in the eternal NOW upon my death. Until then (which isn’t really a “then”) I must persist in accepting the gift moment by moment and persevere until the end.
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I think that you are mixing up salvation with justification. Protestants believe that we are justified by faith through grace.
My position is that salvation doesn’t happen in this life, but rather in the next. Salvation is the gift of eternal life with God in heaven. Without it we spend eternity in hell with the devil.
The Catholic belief on justification is a combination of Protestant justification and sanctification(becoming righteous).
 
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bjcros:
I think that you are mixing up salvation with justification. Protestants believe that we are justified by faith through grace.
My position is that salvation doesn’t happen in this life, but rather in the next. Salvation is the gift of eternal life with God in heaven. Without it we spend eternity in hell with the devil.
The Catholic belief on justification is a combination of Protestant justification and sanctification(becoming righteous).
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Ummm…that sounds pretty Catholic…if Salvation is eternal life in heaven…how ARE you saved. Your verb (“I *AM *saved” or “ARE you saved”) indicates currently “saved”. Shouldn’t it read “I will be saved” or “will you be saved”?
 
Sorry for seemingly going off topic…but there are a lot of Biblical verses that point to the event of salvation as a future event rather than a one time “believe in Me” deal. And if you rely on the Bible alone…how can you hold to the whole idea of “I’m saved.”?
 
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st_felicity:
Ummm…that sounds pretty Catholic…if Salvation is eternal life in heaven…how ARE you saved. Your verb (“I *AM *saved” or “ARE you saved”) indicates currently “saved”. Shouldn’t it read “I will be saved” or “will you be saved”?
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Salvation comes after this life. However, I am saved now. I believe in assurance of salvation.
 
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st_felicity:
Sorry for seemingly going off topic…but there are a lot of Biblical verses that point to the event of salvation as a future event rather than a one time “believe in Me” deal. And if you rely on the Bible alone…how can you hold to the whole idea of “I’m saved.”?
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Definition of saved is “delivered from sin”. I am delivered from sin. I no longer have to sin. I have power over sin. I am no longer in bondage to sin. I am saved.
Definition of salvation is “deliverance from the power and effects of sin”. I am not outside of the effects of sin until I die, then I have slavation.
 
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bjcros:
Definition of saved is “delivered from sin”. I am delivered from sin. I no longer have to sin. I have power over sin. I am no longer in bondage to sin. I am saved.
Definition of salvation is “deliverance from the power and effects of sin”. I am not outside of the effects of sin until I die, then I have slavation.
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You are saved, but you don’t have salvation?!? :hmmm:
 
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bjcros:
Definition of saved is “delivered from sin”. I am delivered from sin. I no longer have to sin. I have power over sin. I am no longer in bondage to sin. I am saved.
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Wasn’t Christ’s sacrifice that which “delivered from sin”? So, by your definition–isn’t everyone “saved”?
 
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st_felicity:
Wasn’t Christ’s sacrifice that which “delivered from sin”? So, by your definition–isn’t everyone “saved”?
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Yes, everyone who accepts Christ’s sacrifice is “saved”. and are ensured “Salvation”
 
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st_felicity:
Wasn’t Christ’s sacrifice that which “delivered from sin”? So, by your definition–isn’t everyone “saved”?
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Christ died for everyone,

*1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. *

*Timothy 2:3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. *

but not everyone is saved:

Acts 13:46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 7:51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One.
 
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RonWI:
Christ died for everyone,

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

*Timothy 2:*3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

but not everyone is saved:

Acts 13:46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 7:51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One.
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I did not say anything contradictory to anything that I believe. I believe Calvin on predestination. Christ died for the elect. The elect will choose Christ, and are saved.
 
So…let me get this straight…

BJ says: the "Definition of saved is ‘delivered from sin’ " and that means freed from the bondage of sin–we have power over sin (through Christ’s sacrifice). And that all who “accept” Christ’s sacrifice (which I assume means beleive that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and that His death was to ransom us from the stain of Original Sin) are among the saved. Further, BJ says that those who are “saved” are already saved because they are the elect and will choose Christ. I want to make sure I’m following your point of view…Is this right?

Ron says: Christ died for all but not all are saved because some choose to reject Christ’s sacrifice. I’m not sure…Ron, do you consider yourself “saved”?

Felicity holds she’s working out her salvation with fear and trembling…but with confidence in the mercy and justice of God.
 
bjcros,

My position is that salvation doesn’t happen in this life, but rather in the next.

We call that glorification. The Bible uses the word “save” in present tense, past tense, and future tense, so its usage has three meanings according to Scripture.

A Catholic answer to the question, "ARE YOU SAVED?"

“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I *will be *saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

We can have hope for Eternal Salvation … Not Assurance of Eternal Salvation:
Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Heb 10:26 - if sin after receiving truth, judgement remains
1 Cor 9:27 - buffet body, make it a slave for fear of being rejected
Rom 2:26 - will award to every man what his acts have deserved
Rom 11:22 - importance of continuing in God’s grace
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Phil 2:12 - work to earn your salvation in anxious fear
1 Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2 Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to end to reign with Christ
Heb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
2 Cor 5:10 - we reap what we earn according to our deeds
Rom 5:2, 8:24 - confident in the hope of attaining glory of God
 
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st_felicity:
So…let me get this straight…
BJ says: the "Definition of saved is ‘delivered from sin’ " and that means freed from the bondage of sin–we have power over sin (through Christ’s sacrifice). And that all who “accept” Christ’s sacrifice (which I assume means beleive that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and that His death was to ransom us from the stain of Original Sin) are among the saved. Further, BJ says that those who are “saved” are already saved because they are the elect and will choose Christ. I want to make sure I’m following your point of view…Is this right?
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I think that you understand my point of view correctly. Except in this
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st_felicity:
those who are “saved” are already saved
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the elect aren’t saved until they accept Christ. but they will accept Christ.
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st_felicity:
Felicity holds she’s working out her salvation with fear and trembling…but with confidence in the mercy and justice of God
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I would also say that I am working on my Salvation with fear and trembling… but I am assured of my Salvation by a merciful, and just God.
 
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