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batman1973
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Oh, source please.
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Isaiah45_9
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PRmerger
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Then why the heck aren’t you Catholic??
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Porknpie
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Bat,
Here…the first question, always is what is the nature of the Church Christ established…
Christ built a Church, singular, upon St Peter…hell will not prevail…the Church can not error on faith and morals. St Ignatius records this Church being called the “Catholic Church” in 110AD.
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.
“You” is the Church, singular…makes sense, using reason too, that Christ would create one Church guided to all Truth. All …
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Christ told his first Priests to teach the flock all that he commanded. The Catholic Church is doing so. Christ is with his church always.
20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
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PRmerger
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Well, this I have a problem with. It appears as if you are offering an Adult Minimum Daily Requirement type of Christianity? That is, you have reservations about what is required to believe as a Catholic?
As Mark Shea says (paraphrasing): questions such as, “Do I have to believe [A] in order to be considered a good **” are the exact wrong question to ask. “What’s the bare minimum of obedience to Christ I can get away with and still be saved?” are fundamentally wrong-headed, he says.
Note: I know you’re not asking this question directly, Jon, but having a “circle” so to speak of what you can believe and what you can’t is the wrong paradigm to have, IMHO.
One ought to find the Church that Jesus established, and then conform your views to Christ’s.
So either Christ wants us to believe in purgatory, the IC, the Assumption of Mary, or he doesn’t. This is no, “it’s fine for you but not for me” type of revelation.**
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batman1973
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Allow me then to expound a bit. I’ll grant the Catholics their extra biblical teachings. Doesn’t mean I agree with it.
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batman1973
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Do better than that. That one is sooo easy to explain away…
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batman1973
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Did you know that the greek word ekklesia where we get the word church from, does not mean an institution? See, Mormons and Catholics are huge on institutions. The rest of us, not so much. We believe that we the body of believers, those who follow Christ are the church that Christ founded with Peter’s declaration. Not some organized institiution. But, I’m sure that you will disagree.[bibledrb]1 Timothy 3:15[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Acts 20:28[/bibledrb]
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joe370
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The Catholic Church is a church first and foremost - agreed? By definition the Catholic Church is an institution as well, for the reasons expressed in the following link. Do you agree?
staycatholic.com/our_debt_to_the_catholic_church.htm
Every church was instituted by someone e.g. the Lutheran church was instituted by Martin Luther. You asked for a source and he provided it:
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
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Porknpie
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joe370
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We, as Catholics, believe that we the body of believers,* (leaders included - “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood”) *- those who follow Christ, comprise the church that Christ founded with Peter’s declaration, which gave way to Jesus saying:
“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, (Cephas) and on this rock (cephas) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you (Cephas alone) the keys of the kingdom of heaven…"
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Isaiah45_9
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I am aware, and like you said I disagree to an extent. A body of believers is exactly that, a body of believers, in Dominus Iesus (On the Unicity and Salvific universality of Jesus Christ and the Church), then Cardinal Ratzinger expounded on the mystery of Christ’s Church.
In the end, each one of us is accountable for the choices we make.
In the mean time, I can pray for Christ’s glorious return so that all divisions can be done with.
What I discovered during my roaming through the denominations and non-denominations is that Sola Scriptura is used to excuse our personal disagreements with the Church we are currently attending. And in that way, leave a door open in the chance we don’t agree and then need to find a different denomination that is more in line to what we personally understand Scriptures to mean.
I got tired of that, I prayed long and hard for God to help me. The answer to my prayers was for me to leave my pride and to humble myself and my understanding, and to become teachable - not rebellious. Once I did that, I was able to understand things more clearly and more importantly, that a Church is something bigger and better than myself. At this point I came back home to the Catholic Church, a very humbling experience but one that has rewarded my Faith in ways I can’t put into words. I still struggle, but I keep aiming and going towards the goal = Jesus Christ.
There can only be One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church visible on earth for the faithful.
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joe370
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Great post!
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batman1973
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That’s the best post I’ve ever read. And, I agree.
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Isaiah45_9
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Laus Deo!Great post!
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Isaiah45_9
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God Bless you brother.
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Eric_Hilbert
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Thread over 1000.
Feel free to do a new one.
Feel free to do a new one.
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