Some Muslims Beat Pastor After Attending Church

[George_Waters]

Faith101:

.

Peace George

I dont believe i ever said that…but if i did, i never meant it the way you understood it.

A muslim who says they are a Muslim, is a Muslim. What i keep saying is that a Muslim who does not live by Islam shouldnt be made the representative of my religion. Same thing goes for Christianity and Christians. The idea is, some people on this forum, post crimes done by Muslims and say "yeah…thats a peaceful religion " and other nonsense…but when the same is done to them, they dont accept it.

Faith101,

I apparently misunderstood. Thank you.

 

[inJESUS]

first off the word is inimical which means hostile or unfriendly.

yes please do forgive my typing error.

 

[inJESUS]

Faith101:

So if i post verses from the Bible where God commanded the fighting and killing of others…you would say that God commanded them to sin?

yes you will only find it in the imperfect OT law that was perfected and fulfilled by Jesus… bring your proof from the NT if you can.
PS: prophets are not sinless; the Bible shows the sins of all people including Moses, Abraham, Peter, Paul ecc this to show that the only sinless person to have ever walked on this planet is Jesus Christ; Not Moses, nor Abraham nor anyone met God’s law except Jesus. So if you want to quote something, quote it from Jesus’ teachings.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes. Especially killing unbelievers in the name of god.

Faith, you must understand the “why”

Killing, fighting, wars are NOT from God but the result of sinful people; you have the right to fight back if someone attacks you, but you will NOT be rewarded for it.

 

[davidmartinez]

i know this is alittle off topic but i must speak my mind,

inJESUS, wow I must say you really inspire me! keep up the good work

 

[inJESUS]

davidmartinez:

i know this is alittle off topic but i must speak my mind,

inJESUS, wow I must say you really inspire me! keep up the good work

thx and God bless you

 

[Faith101]

inJESUS:

yes you will only find it in the imperfect OT law that was perfected and fulfilled by Jesus… bring your proof from the NT if you can.
PS: prophets are not sinless; the Bible shows the sins of all people including Moses, Abraham, Peter, Paul ecc this to show that the only sinless person to have ever walked on this planet is Jesus Christ; Not Moses, nor Abraham nor anyone met God’s law except Jesus. So if you want to quote something, quote it from Jesus’ teachings.

Was God imperfect in the OT? As it was Him that commanded the fighting.

 

[Faith101]

inJESUS:

Faith, you must understand the “why”

Killing, fighting, wars are NOT from God but the result of sinful people; you have the right to fight back if someone attacks you, but you will NOT be rewarded for it.

In Islam, you are rewarded for sleep, if you have the right intention. Married men and women are even rewarded when they have marital relations.

Islam encompasses all aspects of life. If something is not for God, then why do it? If defending the body and mind that God has given me not worth a reward…then what is?

 

[inJESUS]

Faith101:

Was God imperfect in the OT? As it was Him that commanded the fighting.

God’s commandmant : thou shall not kill is perfect.

The OT is full of symbols and figurative language…it cannot be read literally; When Moses says : God told me…it is not that God LITERALLY told Moses so; it is Moses’ conception of God.
When Jesus said : you were told eye for eye ecc BUT I TELL YOU ecc
“Moses allowed you to divorce BUT IT WAS NOT INITIALLY THIS.”, so you see that what Moses did is not what is “initialy” decreed by God, but Moses adapted himself according to his time…
The God who says : do not kill, and : judgment is mine, does not need anyone to help him.and will not ask anyone to kill; God does not compromise his Holy Law with human weakness and sinfulness.

 

[Faith101]

inJESUS:

God’s commandmant : thou shall not kill is perfect.

With that same commandement, comes the death penalty for various crimes.

The OT is full of symbols and figurative language…it cannot be read literally; When Moses says : God told me…it is not that God LITERALLY told Moses so; it is Moses’ conception of God

Can you elaborate on this…so Moses was doing his own thing, and telling people that God told him? WHen the OT says “GOD says…” it really means “Moses thought God said”?

When Jesus said : you were told eye for eye ecc BUT I TELL YOU ecc
“Moses allowed you to divorce BUT IT WAS NOT INITIALLY THIS.”, so you see that what Moses did is not what is “initialy” decreed by God, but Moses adapted himself according to his time…
The God who says : do not kill, and : judgment is mine, does not need anyone to help him.and will not ask anyone to kill; God does not compromise his Holy Law with human weakness and sinfulness.

What is sinful about defending yourself against those who fight you?

 

[inJESUS]

Faith101:

In Islam, you are rewarded for sleep, if you have the right intention. Married men and women are even rewarded when they have marital relations.

Islam encompasses all aspects of life. If something is not for God, then why do it? If defending the body and mind that God has given me not worth a reward…then what is?

God rewards righteousness… why will God reward a married couple for having marital relation?? God will reward you for defending yourself?? what is the wisdom here??

everything caused by war is caused by sinful people; why will allah reward you for something originated by sin?

 

[Faith101]

God rewards righteousness… why will God reward a married couple for having marital relation?? God will reward you for defending yourself?? what is the wisdom here??

Again, Islam encompasses all aspects of life…sex and war included.

everything caused by war is caused by sinful people; why will allah reward you for something originated by sin?

They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein.
(2:217)

 

[inJESUS]

With that same commandement, comes the death penalty for various crimes.

am against it…i think it has to do with secular law not religion.

Can you elaborate on this…so Moses was doing his own thing, and telling people that God told him? WHen the OT says “GOD says…” it really means “Moses thought God said”?

No. I did not mean that Moses was lying or deceiving people; the Bible is the story of God’s revelations to his people; the fulfillment of who God is is thru Jesus…thats why we say that the conception of God was not perfect in the OT…

What is sinful about defending yourself against those who fight you?

the sin originates from the fact itself; it starts with the fact that war is caused by sinful people not by God; so when you fight it is a sin in the sense that it originated from a sin…its not the “defence” per se, but what triggers it.

That is, the perfect situation ( sinlessness)is : not to fight and kill…but the fact that you HAVE to do it, does not mean that it is the perfect situation, but an imperfect one, caused by sin.

 

[inJESUS]

Faith101:

Again, Islam encompasses all aspects of life…sex and war included.

They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing

. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso becometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein.
(2:217)
yes i understand this point…but i already quoted passages where fighters will be REWARDED for it; from a christian perspective, war and fighting are caused by sinfulness; why would God reward you for something caused by sinfulness? it is your right to defend yourself, but its not that you’ll get a heavenly bonus for it; thats the point…

 

[discipleofJesus]

Faith101:

What is sinful about defending yourself against those who fight you?

The thing is, Islam doesn’t **only ** command Muslims to defend themselves against those who fight them.

Islam also commands offensive and aggressive jihad against non-Muslims.

Also, regarding Islam commanding Muslims to defend themselves. Read the following:

“Many orthodox Muslims believe that if a nation’s leaders do not acknowledge the rule of Islam, then those rulers are “oppressors” and thus a legitimate target for war[2]. Many Muslims argue that America is a culteral aggressor by exporting its Hollywood values all over the world, and thus any fight against Americans is done in self-defense[3]. Therefore, there is no end to how a Muslim group can define “self-defense” and “oppression” and thus find an Islamic justification for violence.”
p332
Answering Islam: The Crescent in Light of the Cross
Second Edition
by Norman L. Geisler and Abdul Saleeb
shakinandshinin.org/AnsweringIslam.pdf

If you want to read about the Catholic just war doctrine, I suggest you read this catholic.com/library/just_war_doctrine_1.asp

 

[inJESUS]

thats true.

Anyway, the quran asks muslims not to take non-moslems as rulers…which means that if muslims live in a non-moslem country, it is bad if the ruler is not muslim, hence not applying the islamic sharia; thats why you see muslims trying to impliment sharia wherever they go, which causes clashes and fights between people; the commands of quran cannot result in peace; the “we” verses “you” is always problematic. Now the muslims’ goal is to become the first religion in number everywhere they go which willl give them the excuse to say : we are dominant, we should live like we want, we should impliment sharia…thats their goal.

 

[Booklover]

inJESUS:

thats true.

Anyway, the quran asks muslims not to take non-moslems as rulers…which means that if muslims live in a non-moslem country, it is bad if the ruler is not muslim, hence not applying the islamic sharia; thats why you see muslims trying to impliment sharia wherever they go, which causes clashes and fights between people; the commands of quran cannot result in peace; the “we” verses “you” is always problematic. Now the muslims’ goal is to become the first religion in number everywhere they go which willl give them the excuse to say : we are dominant, we should live like we want, we should impliment sharia…thats their goal.

That’s also the reason that they’re not integrating with the rest of the population as they’re doing in European countries right now. They eventually plan to take over and force everyone into sharia law!

Vickie

 

[discipleofJesus]

inJESUS:

thats true.

Anyway, the quran asks muslims not to take non-moslems as rulers…which means that if muslims live in a non-moslem country, it is bad if the ruler is not muslim, hence not applying the islamic sharia; thats why you see muslims trying to impliment sharia wherever they go, which causes clashes and fights between people; the commands of quran cannot result in peace; the “we” verses “you” is always problematic. Now the muslims’ goal is to become the first religion in number everywhere they go which willl give them the excuse to say : we are dominant, we should live like we want, we should impliment sharia…thats their goal.

Booklover:

That’s also the reason that they’re not integrating with the rest of the population as they’re doing in European countries right now. They eventually plan to take over and force everyone into sharia law!

Vickie

Thanks for the helpful info guys

 

[rheins2000]

FAITH1,

We can argue what evil Muslims do and what evil Christians do all day. The fact remains that, what your Koran teaches is virtually unknown. Because there is not internalized structure to your religion, Muslims are free to interpret the message of the Koran in any way they feel like. YOU CANNOT HAVE A DOCUMENT SUCH AS THE BIBLE OR THE KORAN STAND BY ITSELF. The problem with Muslims is that most believe the Koran tells them to kill all unbelievers, and to never stop fighting and killing until all of the lands that were once part of Muslim control, be taken back from the unbelievers by killing every one of them that stand in your way. Other Muslims say that the Koran does not teach this, but rather peace. NOONE KNOWS BECAUSE THERE IS NOONE TELLING MUSLIMS HOW TO INTERPRET THE KORAN.

It doesnt matter what you Koran says, because each Muslim will interpret it for themselves. You interpret it peacefully, yet 95% of Muslims interpret it how they reveal it…in terrorism and murder.

The Catholic Church does not rise and fall by a dead book.(by dead, I mean that it is simply words on paper, with noone to explain what it really means.) You know what Jesus taught, because the Church has taught the same thing for 2000 years, and continues to interpret scripture and be THE SOLE AUTHORITY on what the Bible says. A 1400 year old book cannot be the sole rule and basis of a religion, because human beings are ignorant, self-serving manipulators(as I am without the grace of God) and they will use its words however they want to force a political agenda.

Muslims law sentences death for converts. That is a fact. If God wanted to force people into a religion, he wouldnt give us a free will. if you think God is a God of murder and revenge, you are not only inviolation of your own conscience, but natural law as well.

 

[rheins2000]

Simply by logic and reason, you can see that if something is the truth, God’s truth, it cannot stand against itself. Therefore the truth must be ONE, and a Document cannot be Truth by itself. A document must be explained, especially one that was written 1,400, or in my case, 2,000 years ago. Can’t you see the different interpretations humans have given to your Koran. Thats what humans do. They are self serving unless God shows them the way to self-giving.

My question is, “Who am I supposed to Believe?” You say the Koran says this, this guy says the Koran says that, and Hamas says the Koran says this, and the American Muslim says the Koran says this…can you not see that someone must have authority to tell us humans what is the CORRECT INTERPRETAION of the words. Thus, this must come only from God(since we both claim our words have come from Him) Since your prophet died, there is noone left to tell us what exactly it means.

The Bible was written by the Church, not the other way around. God gave us the Church, through his only Son, Jesus Christ, in order to make sure his followers did not stray from the Truth. God would not leave us a thousand page book without an interpreter. God knows human nature.

And looking at history, you cannot possible think that every human up until Jesus’(or Muhhamed’s) time was without the Truth. The Catholic faith is the completion and fufillment of the Jewish faith that God has established from the beginning of the human race. If you claim that neither the Jews or the Christians had it right, then what about the billions of people before Jesus’ time? Were they just left to fend for themselves without the words of Muhammed? That’s lunacy.

I just cannot accept what you say about the Koran…because its different from what others say about it and there is no continuing Muslim heirarchy that claims authority over that document, which would lead me to what your religion teaches explicetly.

You dont have to go far to find EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches. It is written down, developed, and explained to accompany every generations questions, and every generations problems. It is current, and alive, and noone can ever say, “What is the teaching of the Catholic Church on this issue or that issue” because it is clearly written and explained as all questions arise.

Tell me, …What does your religion teach about embryonic stem cell research?

What does your religion teach in realation to currently applicable standards in bioethics?

What does your religion teach about abortion?

What does your religion teach about corporate price fixing controls in current business practice?

I can tell you what mine teaches on these, and evey other technological, bioethical and social problem that will ever arise in the future of humans. I just point the way to the Church and the Pope, who claim authority from God himself to keep us ignorant, self-serving people within the law of God