Some People more important to God than others?

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .

Protestants has no need of a human mediator in order to better relate to God. Jesus is all they need.

Do you mean that they never ask someone to pray for them?

 

[BlaineTog]

every parent was a child once. theres your equality.

But mary, she’s at the top of the food chain. every catholic is advised to pray to her, but mary is not advised to pray to any human. theres your INequality.

We don’t pray to Mary, we ask her to pray for us. She’s already in heaven, and thus doesn’t need our prayers. No one in heaven needs our prayers.

Protestants has no need of a human mediator in order to better relate to God. Jesus is all they need.

Jesus is all Catholics need too, at least metaphysically. Psychologically, some of us relate better to saints. And Jesus told us to pray for one another, so there’s certainly no harm in asking saints to pray for us.

 

[AgnosTheist]

We don’t pray to Mary, we ask her to pray for us. She’s already in heaven, and thus doesn’t need our prayers. No one in heaven needs our prayers.

Are you a Roman Catholic???

FYI:

Prayers to Mary, the Blessed Mother

catholic.org/clife/mary/praymary.php

Jesus is all Catholics need too, at least metaphysically. Psychologically, some of us relate better to saints. And Jesus told us to pray for one another, so there’s certainly no harm in asking saints to pray for us.

FYI: “praying for” is a world of difference from “praying to”

The point is Protestants have ZERO need for praying to saints. And so the phrase “all we need is jesus” is truer for them than it is for you.

 

[Enoch]

The point is Protestants have ZERO need for praying to saints. And so the phrase “all we need is jesus” is truer for them than it is for you.

If all they need is Jesus, how come protestants are always asking their friends to pray for them in times of need?

 

[BlaineTog]

Are you a Roman Catholic???

FYI:

Prayers to Mary, the Blessed Mother

catholic.org/clife/mary/praymary.php

And the relevant part of the prayer is the second half: “Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen.” It isn’t “Give us this day our daily bread,” it’s “pray for us,” as you would ask a friend, or as you would put in a petition in mass. Prayers “to” Mary are qualitatively different from prayers to God.

FYI: "praying for" is a world of difference from “praying to”

Correct. Orthodox RCC devotion of Mary respects that difference.

The point is Protestants have ZERO need for praying to saints. And so the phrase “all we need is jesus” is truer for them than it is for you.

Just because they don’t pray to saints doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be better off praying to saints. No Catholic is required to pray to Mary or the saints for intervention. It’s simply another option available if you find yourself connecting psychologically to the saints better than to the mysteriousness of God or even Jesus. It’s like you’re saying that since protestants don’t have a hand drill in their toolkit, they need fewer tools than Catholics, when really, they just have fewer.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Prayers “to” Mary are qualitatively different from prayers to God.

i did not say otherwise. the point remains that catholics pray to mary and mary prays/prayed to no human. theres you inequality.

Just because they don’t pray to saints doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be better off praying to saints.

think of it this way,

there are catholics who think that praying to saints are wrong (as ive seen some catholics saying here). but you will find no protestant who would like to pray to saints.

 

[BlaineTog]

i did not say otherwise. the point remains that catholics pray to mary and mary prays/prayed to no human. theres you inequality.

We are unequal, though not because of the difference in prayer, and not in how much God loves us. The human in heaven is greater than the human on earth. God has exalted that human in heaven to be greater and more human than anyone on earth, because that human has allowed him to. Humans on earth are still half-formed, still growing, still incomplete. This doesn’t mean God loves the ones in heaven more, it just means that they have allowed God to burn all imperfection from them and raise them to be greater than the angels. They are now what we will all be someday if we allow God to do this to us.

Corollary to this, those in heaven do not need to be prayed for. They are at the maximum of human potential; it is impossible for God to raise them any higher, since there is nowhere higher to go, and they have no needs or cares unfilled. It would be like watering a healthy water lily in a pond. We on earth, however, still need help, so while we have no good reason to pray for those in heaven, they have good reason to pray for us.

there are catholics who think that praying to saints are wrong (as ive seen some catholics saying here). but you will find no protestant who would like to pray to saints.

Who says? You will find no protestant theology that advocates asking saints to pray for you (assuming that’s true; there’s probably at least one sect that does), but that doesn’t mean it’s logical, nor does it mean protestants somehow have completelly different psychologies from Catholics such that they don’t want help from their friends. Just because protestants don’t pray to saints doesn’t mean they couldn’t benefit from praying to saints.

 

[AgnosTheist]

The human in heaven is greater than the human on earth.

Is Mary more important than St.Patrick? You bet. Afterall Mary gets to become a Queen, and Patrick gets to become somebody who only gets his day once a year…sort of like a mascott.

They are at the maximum of human potential; it is impossible for God to raise them any higher

remember, there is nothing impossible for god. i myself can think up of several ways of improving st.Patrick.

Just because protestants don’t pray to saints doesn’t mean they couldn’t benefit from praying to saints.

how much more benefit can any saint add to somebody who believes that they already have a personal relationship with jesus. no, the saint will only get in the way.

 

[BlaineTog]

Is Mary more important than St.Patrick? You bet. Afterall Mary gets to become a Queen, and Patrick gets to become somebody who only gets his day once a year…sort of like a mascott.

You’re being ambiguous with the word “important.” After all, a particular screw might not be very important for the purposes of writing a work of fiction on a giant tractor, but that screw might be vitally important to the functioning of a tractor.

Similarly, you’re strawmanning me here. Mary is more important of a saint to the Church insofar as she helps represent a bigger archetype (motherhood) than St. Patrick (getting drunk – kidding), and that bigger archetype is more useful for more people. This doesn’t mean she’s more important to God regarding how much he loves her.

remember, there is nothing impossible for god.

God can do all things, but he cannot do the logically contradictory, since such things aren’t things but mere conglomerations of words signifying nothing. The proper way of phrasing this works like this:

“Can God make a burrito so hot that he cannot eat it?” Which is a covert way of saying, “Can God cannot?” which is a meaningless question.

It is not possible for God to raise humans up to his level, for example, since there can only be one entity on his level, namely himself. The saint has been made perfectly in accordance with God’s will, and there is nothing higher than that.

i myself can think up of several ways of improving st.Patrick.

You’ve met him post-exaltation? Do tell.

how much more benefit can any saint add to somebody who believes that they already have a personal relationship with jesus. no, the saint will only get in the way.

For some, yes, the saint would distract them. For others, the saint gives them hope that they too can become a saint and that helps them stay on track. For still others, Jesus is just too big, too much to fathom, but they can fathom a saint, so that saint helps get them to the point where they can have a personal relationship with Jesus. It’s different for different people.

 

[AgnosTheist]

You’re being ambiguous with the word “important.” After all, a particular screw might not be very important for the purposes of writing a work of fiction on a giant tractor, but that screw might be vitally important to the functioning of a tractor.

Similarly, you’re strawmanning me here. Mary is more important of a saint to the Church insofar as she helps represent a bigger archetype (motherhood) than St. Patrick (getting drunk – kidding), and that bigger archetype is more useful for more people. This doesn’t mean she’s more important to God regarding how much he loves her.

first of all importance does not equate to love. like my wife is more important to me but i love my daughter more.

now about your screw example. the screw is vitally important in a tractor but is st.patrick vital to something? no the church can fully function without him. erasing him wont even make more than a slight dent. unlike mary, scratching her off will make a tremendous impact. the church will never be the same.

God can do all things, but he cannot do the logically contradictory

now whatever makes you think its logically contradicting to give st.patrick a better role?

For others, the saint gives them hope that they too can become a saint and that helps them stay on track. For still others, Jesus is just too big, too much to fathom, but they can fathom a saint, so that saint helps get them to the point where they can have a personal relationship with Jesus. It’s different for different people.

For people who believe they have a personal relationship with Jesus, they are already saints themselves. And the idea that Jesus is too big, and yet can get too personal with them, …its just heavenly.

Sometimes different people can share the same ideas. Its all in the head.

 

[AndyF]

Please what do you think?.. some people are more important to God than others? …

Yes. Without any factor of merit, God as selected those who are the elect and will inherit heaven, and those reprobate who won’t.

AndyF

 

[BlaineTog]

first of all importance does not equate to love. like my wife is more important to me but i love my daughter more.

True, but the only way this question really matters is if it refers to God’s love. “Importance” is a meaningless term by itself. “That screw is important.” Well, it depends how you’re approaching it.

now about your screw example. the screw is vitally important in a tractor but is st.patrick vital to something? no the church can fully function without him. erasing him wont even make more than a slight dent. unlike mary, scratching her off will make a tremendous impact. the church will never be the same.

You missed my point. To the church, St. Patrick is less important than Mary, but that doesn’t make him less important to God.

now whatever makes you think its logically contradicting to give st.patrick a better role?

There’s no such thing as a “better role.” His role is what God gave him, and therefore perfect. He could have a more important role in the Church, but that wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing.

For people who believe they have a personal relationship with Jesus, they are already saints themselves.

Not at all. I actually don’t get your logic at all. One can have an imperfect personal relationship with Jesus.

*And the idea that Jesus is too big, and yet can get too personal with them, …its just heavenly.

Sometimes different people can share the same ideas. Its all in the head. *

I don’t understand what you mean by these two sentences. Something got lost over the internet.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Please what do you think?.. some people are more important to God than others? …

The bigger question is: Should it matter to you about what He thinks of others? We should focus on how He feels about us and that will keep us busy for a lifetime.

Peace…

MW