Some popes in hell?

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If i understood correctly those people, who are certainly in heaven, are only the saints. Since not all pope are saints, it seems to be therefore possible, that some ended up elsewhere. Or is there something in catholic doctrine that excludes the possibility that a pope in the end has rejected God?
 
If i understood correctly those people, who are certainly in heaven, are only the saints. Since not all pope are saints, it seems to be therefore possible, that some ended up elsewhere. Or is there something in catholic doctrine that excludes the possibility that a pope in the end has rejected God?
Yes, some popes could be in Hell. Not every pope was a good pope. The Church itself has never taught that popes are impeccable (of good character); only infallible, given a number of parameters.

The popes you may be interested in are the “Borgia popes”. They weren’t good guys at all, to put it mildly.
 
If i understood correctly those people, who are certainly in heaven, are only the saints. Since not all pope are saints, it seems to be therefore possible, that some ended up elsewhere. Or is there something in catholic doctrine that excludes the possibility that a pope in the end has rejected God?
You’d be surprised who is in Hell. No born human is guaranteed Heaven - other than Jesus and Mary of course. 🙂

Blessings and Shalom
 
If i understood correctly those people, who are certainly in heaven, are only the saints. Since not all pope are saints, it seems to be therefore possible, that some ended up elsewhere. Or is there something in catholic doctrine that excludes the possibility that a pope in the end has rejected God?
Only God knows who is in Hell and who is saved.

On the other hand we can say objectively that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell, and that does not exclude anyone.
 
It’s very easy to go to hell yet very hard to go to heaven. I can see how some popes could be in hell right now. Remember that those who much is given to, much is expected. God’s devine justice takes no rank into account when judging.
 
It is possible. The Church never states that anyone is definitively in hell. She only recognizes those as saints who have verifiable miracles to show that they are in Heaven. Because someone has not been declared a saint does NOT mean they aren’t in Heaven.
 
Not that Dante can be seen as theologically sound. But didn’t he put one of the popes in Hell? I can’t remember which one.
 
There have been some popes who were very holy and pious men. There have been some who were real rogues in their personal lives. I think the majority may fit somewhere in between. Some of those who were rogues committed sins beyond description. Yet, through all the sinfulness one thing stands out. Not one of these guys ever taught error while they were pope. Protestant theologians have poured over every one of these popes trying to find just one instance where a pope taught doctrinal error. They could find none. Again, popes are infallible [protected from error] in teaching doctrine but not impeccable [protected from sin] in their personal lives.
 
Dante also put Michael Scott in Hell. He was referring to a medieval magician, not the former manager on “The Office”, (who was a magician too, come to think of it) but it still jumps out at you when reading all those Italian names.
 
Yet, through all the sinfulness one thing stands out. Not one of these guys ever taught error while they were pope. Protestant theologians have poured over every one of these popes trying to find just one instance where a pope taught doctrinal error. They could find none.
Have you any link regarding supporting this?

I have a slight problem imagining protestants pouring over papal statements and then declaring “dman, we did not find doctrinal errors.”.
 
Not that Dante can be seen as theologically sound. But didn’t he put one of the popes in Hell? I can’t remember which one.
Its irrelevant what Dante says. Nobody except God knows which individuals have gone to Hell or have been saved.
All we can say is that those who die in mortal sin go to Hell, but only God knows who they are.
 
If i understood correctly those people, who are certainly in heaven, are only the saints. Since not all pope are saints, it seems to be therefore possible, that some ended up elsewhere. Or is there something in catholic doctrine that excludes the possibility that a pope in the end has rejected God?
Not everyone in heaven is a saint. That is not true at all, where did you hear that?
 
Not everyone in heaven is a saint. That is not true at all, where did you hear that?
I did not state that only saints are in heaven. I intended to say, that only of saints we know the “whereabouts” and that since not all popes are saints, the “whereabouts” of most popes is unknown to us.
 
Have you any link regarding supporting this?

I have a slight problem imagining protestants pouring over papal statements and then declaring “dman, we did not find doctrinal errors.”.
You are correct, there is no support for the claim. Many of Catholic teachings this very day are believed to be incorrect and contrary to the Bible.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Yet, through all the sinfulness one thing stands out. Not one of these guys ever taught error while they were pope. Protestant theologians have poured over every one of these popes trying to find just one instance where a pope taught doctrinal error. They could find none.
Have you any link regarding supporting this?

I have a slight problem imagining protestants pouring over papal statements and then declaring “dman, we did not find doctrinal errors.”.
A LINK? Apparently you think protestants would publish the fact that they found the Catholic Church to be speaking the truth. Highly doubtful to say the least. But look at what they have alleged and it is clear they have done some investigation because the “examples” they do give are so lacking in relevance as to be borderline ludicrous. For example take their most quoted example, that of Galileo and the theory of heliocentricity. Supposedly Galileo was convicted by the Inquisition because he taught something that was contrary to what the pope taught. The real truth is that Galileo taught something as a scientific truth that he could not prove scientifically was truth. Galileo got into trouble because when confronted with scripture that seemingly contradicted him Galileo said scripture was in error. That is what got Galileo in deep doo doo with the church and would have done so with any protestant denomination as well. Imagine telling a protestant that the scriptures that protestants claim are inerrant actually are wrong. In actuality the church had no doctrinal position on the matter and to this day still doesn’t. But this is the allegation that is made, that Galileo contradicted the pope’s teaching and since we all know heliocentricity is scientific fact the pope’s doctrinal teaching was in error. But how can a doctrinal teaching be in error when there was no doctrinal teaching to begin with?
This is what I mean by the examples cited by protestants are borderline ludicrous. I think I was very charitable in calling them only borderline ludicrous. Yet protestant ministers will continue to cite this example and their followers will believe them. Apparently they think the pope isn’t infallible but their minister is.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carn
Have you any link regarding supporting this?

I have a slight problem imagining protestants pouring over papal statements and then declaring “dman, we did not find doctrinal errors.”.
You are correct, there is no support for the claim. Many of Catholic teachings this very day are believed to be incorrect and contrary to the Bible.
The operative phrase in your statement is “are believed to be incorrect and contrary to the Bible”. That’s because protestants do not properly interpret the scriptures. If they did, they would be Catholic. Show me one legitimate instance where the basic protestant doctrines of sola scriptura and private interpretation of scripture were ever taught in the early church. Pick any century up to the 15th. I can show you why neither one of these are scriptural to begin with. I can show you in scripture why Mary is indeed queen of heaven. You may not accept that interpretation but then protestants really have no authority to say any scripture interpretation is wrong. You guys can’t agree on basic things like Baptism. Is it necessary or not? Does it save or not? Infant or adult? Sacrament or ordinance? So how can a baptized protestant call an unbaptized protestant a brother as you do when your differences are so great as to be completely contradictory? You do that only because you have no authority to call someone with heretical beliefs what they truely are, a heretic. The only thing incorrect about Catholic teachings is the protestant belief that they are incorrect.
 
Not everyone in heaven is a saint. That is not true at all, where did you hear that?
Everyone who is a true believer in Christ is a saint right now, on the earth. Since these are the only people who are in Heaven, only saints are in Heaven.
 
And unjustly maligned, for the most part, if one reads an unbiased account of his papacy.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Yet, through all the sinfulness one thing stands out. Not one of these guys ever taught error while they were pope. Protestant theologians have poured over every one of these popes trying to find just one instance where a pope taught doctrinal error. They could find none.

A LINK? Apparently you think protestants would publish the fact that they found the Catholic Church to be speaking the truth. Highly doubtful to say the least.
No, i meant a link, where it is shown or at least made plausible, that protestants actually searched through church doctrine to disprove papal infabillity and came up empty. Because i suspect that few protestants would actually been inclined to study closely what the church teaches, because they think it to be at least illegitimate if not worse. Furthermore if you dislike something you are more likely to see error where none is and as for disproving infallibility one error would be enough, you are inclined to stop then. So searching through entire doctrine does not seem likely.
Either they do not check at all or likely stop at only at a perceived error.
But look at what they have alleged and it is clear they have done some investigation because the “examples” they do give are so lacking in relevance as to be borderline ludicrous. For example take their most quoted example, that of Galileo and the theory of heliocentricity. Supposedly Galileo was convicted by the Inquisition because he taught something that was contrary to what the pope taught. The real truth is that Galileo taught something as a scientific truth that he could not prove scientifically was truth. Galileo got into trouble because when confronted with scripture that seemingly contradicted him Galileo said scripture was in error. That is what got Galileo in deep doo doo with the church and would have done so with any protestant denomination as well. Imagine telling a protestant that the scriptures that protestants claim are inerrant actually are wrong. In actuality the church had no doctrinal position on the matter and to this day still doesn’t. But this is the allegation that is made, that Galileo contradicted the pope’s teaching and since we all know heliocentricity is scientific fact the pope’s doctrinal teaching was in error.
Helicentricity is wrong, sun is not center of universe. Might even be, that center of universe is a completly arbitrary term and any point, e.g. the center of earth, can be regarded to be center of universe.

The real funny thing is that people think the church is anti-science because it requires undeniable evidence (=lots and lots and lots of evidence, because no undeniable evidence exists) before it gives up a long held position. Don’t understand what the problem is, i am from science and the last thing we worry about are people asking for lots of evidence, as long as someone pays for the additional research necessary.

Whats the point?🤷
Asking science for evidence?🤷
Somehow ridicolous problem.
Only that thing about stakes is bad, but church stopped that long ago (longer ago than protestants), so everything fine now.

There are a lot of people and groups, who do not care about evidence so church is realy at most a small problem for science.
 
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