some question to our muslim fellows

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slyboots said:
The example given by the Muslim was about his dog. The Scholar said he loved his dog very much. But that he was moving to a place that did not accept pets. But rather than giving his dog away he was chosing to have his dog put down. It was his property after all.
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Sorry I don’t understand… just how does that relate to the point the scholar was trying to make? :confused:
 
That he was to the dog as Allah was to his followers. A master who has possessions with which he can do as he chooses.
 
That’s what I was afraid of. Oh well it really doesn’t surprise me that much…
 
this is to morning star 777. i know you said that you were a Muslim at one time. may i ask how long you have been a Christian and why you converted? yes, i would say you know a lot about Islam if you were a practicing Muslim at one time.

if we could only learn to live in peace and respect one another’s religious beliefs.

i pray for everyone who comes to this forum.

debbie
 
Deborahaz,I guess that christianity is the best way thats why i decided to became christian.and i found many cruel law in islam.many historical& scientific errors.i have found many verses in quran which taught violence or hating non muslims.but now i won’t explain all because i did it many time.read some of my posts if you want.you will find it.anyway i have sent a PM to you.read this.in brief i have explained.
 
morning_star777 said:
Sorry:blush:,actually I wanted to say i know many things about islamic law.&I don’t want to explain why i have asked this question because you know my aim,don’t you;)?.I think,almost all muslim except planten(or maybe few ppl like him)believe that non muslims will go to hell&will stay there forever.&both of us(me&you)know that why muslims think so.
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If you sit down with a non-Muslim and ask him if you are going to hell, I’m pretty sure you’ll get an astonishingly uniform answer.

God only knows.

Muslims aren’t going to (or at least shouldn’t) tell you whether you are going to hell or not because they don’t know. What they do know is that only God knows what is in your heart, and only God knows the extent of your knowledge, belief, your sins, and your righteousness, and that is why the judgment is in God’s hands.

That is what I have been taught. And if you won’t accept knowledge from a converted Muslim, then know that you cannot accept knowledge from 'Umar ibn Al-Khattab, from Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, from 'Uthman ibn Affan, from 'Ali ibn Abi Talib. Would the Ummah of Muhammad (saaws) be anywhere today if they did not take knowledge from these men?

So if you don’t think I have knowledge–that’s fine. I know that my knowledge is very deficient. But since I am the one who is sitting with the scholars to learn Islam, and you are not, I will trust my scholars, and if anyone is listening to me, and trusts me, then they are trusting my scholars. So I’m not sure where you got your knowledge from–I’m under the impression that at best it is a general cultural influence, and that you weren’t actually sitting with scholars in any class other than a children’s class.

And by that logic, the Catholics here can compare your knowledge of Islam to chose children who go to Sunday school and later become “spiritual but not religious” and in actuality have no practical knowledge of their religion, only what they have obtained through cultural influence. I know many Muslims the same way–who only know what they have picked up culturally, and they make many many mistakes in their understanding, and are frequently wrong, sometimes grievously so.
 
sister amy - maybe i am missing something, but i thought morning star 777 said he WAS a muslim. if he was one, he should know everything about Islam. am i not reading your post correctly? which side are you on?
 
AMY,i don’t think that you don’t have knowledge.I just wanted to say that i have also some knowledge and some very good source also.I don’t know what ur usa scholars taught you but our scholar taught me via book that all non muslim will go to hell.ur quran taught that,hadith taught that.I hope you read the Quran&hadith.and i have many books of islamic scholars.so i think if you can directly learn from them then i can indirectly learn from them.
 
sister amy,my sources are also very authentic.why can’t you understand that since my childhood they are teaching me about islam.but now they(my family)know i am atheist.anyway except quran&hadith,my father has lots of book of maududi&many scholars i can’t say all name.but i just started reading Quran&hadith again after 6 years i told you and why i am reading islamic scriptures i also told you.thank you:)
 
oh sister amy i never told an important thing that my father is also a converted muslim(he was hindu)like you.he converted when he was young.so in my childhood he taught me islam with pressure:).He is well educated man both academic&islamic side.So i know a converted muslim can be very abusive(mental abuse)even with his son.He turned my childhood into hell with his islamic abuse.but i told you before that i can’t share my personal story with you.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Muslims aren’t going to (or at least shouldn’t) tell you whether you are going to hell or not because they don’t know.
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morning_star777 said:
AMY,i don’t think that you don’t have knowledge.I just wanted to say that i have also some knowledge and some very good source also.I don’t know what ur usa scholars taught you but our scholar taught me via book that all non muslim will go to hell.ur quran taught that,hadith taught that.I hope you read the Quran&hadith.
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Hi morning_star777,

I think Sister Amy has a very good knowledge about Islam (theoretically & practically), and I think you also have some knowledge about Islam (experience & practically), but what you both lack is the Arabic language advantage and to live within the Islamic culture, without those two important factors there is no way for you to discover all the hidden aspects of Quran, Hadith, and Islam in general, for example look for inJESUS, he is Christian person, and because of his good knowledge in Islam adding to that the above two factors he can easily become head-to-head with any Arabic or non-Arabic Islamic cleric, not to mention the Arabic Christian fellows on Alhayat TV station, whom created a big headache for our Islamic countries because they were able to read our Arabic Islamic books and our history and show all the contradictions within them.

However, back to the main subject, here are verses from Quran, hadith, and fatwa that support your statement.

(Quran 98:6):
"Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. "

(Quran 09:73):
“O Prophet! strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

(Quran 72:23):
“Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger, for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein forever.”

(Quran 22:72):
“When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, thou wilt notice a denial on the faces of the Unbelievers! They nearly attack with violence those who rehearse Our Signs to them. Say, "Shall I tell you of something (far) worse than these Signs? It is the Fire (of Hell)! Allah has promised it to the Unbelievers! And evil is that destination!”

(Quran 57:15):
“This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah; your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is!”

(Quran 64:10):
“*But those who reject Faith and treat Our Signs as falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein for aye: and evil is that Goal. *”

(Quran 67:06):
“*For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such) destination. *”

(Quran 04:56):
"Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the Penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. "

Muslim, Book 001, Number 0398:
“Anas reported: Verily, a person said: Messenger of Allah, where is my father? He said: (He) is in the Fire. When he turned away, he (the Holy Prophet) called him and said: Verily my father and your father are in the Fire.”
(E) (A)

Muslim, Book 004, Number 2129:
“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger, (may peace be upon him) as saying: I sought permission to beg forgiveness for my mother, but He did not grant it to me. I sought permission from Him to visit her grave, and He granted it (permission) to me.”
(E) (A)

Muslim, Book 001, Number 0284:
“It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.”
(E) (A)

Muslim, Book 001, Number 0167:
“It is narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Mas’ud that Waki told (him) that the Messenger of Allah had observed and Ibn Numair asserted: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) saying: He who dies associating anything with Allah would enter the Fire (of Hell). 'Abdullah b. Mas’ud said: I say that he who died without associating anything with Allah entered Paradise.”
(E) (A)

Fatwa:
islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-Arabic-Ask_Scholar/FatwaA/FatwaA&cid=1122528621196
 
hello brother sam_777,ya as an arab,brother inJESUS&you have this advantage.because i read islamic scriptures in bangla so maybe all aren’t authentic.but i live in a very bigot family,everything is islamic here even bank account&insurance etc of my father lol.but my brother thank u for ur references from koran&hadith.i want to know more about islam from you because you are ex muslim so you are faithful source.thank you again my brother.:hug1:
 
morning_star777 said:
AMY,i don’t think that you don’t have knowledge.I just wanted to say that i have also some knowledge and some very good source also.I don’t know what ur usa scholars taught you but our scholar taught me via book that all non muslim will go to hell.ur quran taught that,hadith taught that.I hope you read the Quran&hadith.and i have many books of islamic scholars.so i think if you can directly learn from them then i can indirectly learn from them.
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Muslim teachers in the madrassah can be teaching anything. That is not Islam. At present, those teachers and students of the Madrassas are at lowest rung of the ladder as far as any religious or worldly knowledge is concerned.

If they had known anything then they would have been mild and gentle and capable progressing people. They know nothing about the Geography too. One Muslim Imam of a big mosque (Ahle Hadith) argued with my friend that earth was flat (not round like a sphere).

My friend took a globe from my house to show the Imam the shape of the earth. But he did not agree and I lost my globe too.

Most Muslim Imams did not believe that any one went to the moon. They said it was impossible, the moon size was increasing and decreasing. How could any one set foot on the moon. They were telling every one that it was some camera trick of the western countries that some one landed on the moon.

In the face of such things, there is no hope of any goodness from the present day maulvis unless they repent severely (honestly) and go back to the basics of Islam. The first lesson they should learn is to be mild and gentle and be peaceful. They have nothing with them to give. They are starving materially and spiritually.

So the matter of hell. It is not true that all non Muslims are Kafirs. People of the book are not called kafirs.Only the Kafirs will go to hell. And hell is not forever. It is only for a long time abode, not forever. This worldly life is an indicator for the next world. It appears that present day so called muslims will be the dwellers of hell too because of their bad deeds. They do not have a licence for the Paradise.
 
Hmm. No wonder you’re all confused! 👍

If you refer back to Sam’s post, the very first verse he posts actually might be able to clear this up. A person who actually rejects belief, or rejects Islam, or rejects the Prophethood of Muhammad and they know about it–then it says what it says. But that doesn’t actually apply to every single person on the planet who isn’t Muslim.

Many people never are exposed to the truth of Islam. So maybe they aren’t really rejecting Islam but something else. It’s all too complicated for me to say, you know? That is why I and all of my teachers will agree that the people who knowingly reject Islam will be punished but also that it’s impossible to say that about anyone today. Because how can we possibly know who is rejecting the truth… and who is actually just rejecting a falsehood?

I don’t mean to confuse you more, but there is a reconciliation.

So the Qur’an talks about different groups of people–but we, mere mortals, cannot distinguish who is in one group or another. And at times, the descriptions of two divergent groups might seem to overlap. There are verses for example which say that Christians Jews and Sabians and people who have believed will have their reward with their Lord. So how is a person to understand that? Christians are going to Paradise, straightaway? Of course it’s not that simple. And which is why you’re getting different answers from different people. For that, I apologize to you. It is better for a Muslim to not speak without knowledge… and now you know why.
 
morning_star777 said:
sister amy,my sources are also very authentic.why can’t you understand that since my childhood they are teaching me about islam.but now they(my family)know i am atheist.anyway except quran&hadith,my father has lots of book of maududi&many scholars i can’t say all name.but i just started reading Quran&hadith again after 6 years i told you and why i am reading islamic scriptures i also told you.thank you:)
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I have some friends you know, from Bangladesh. Some people here at the masjid. I can only assume that you learned about Islam the same way that they did. 🤷 That alone leads me to believe that there was something deficient in your instruction.

And I’m glad you’re back to reading the Qur’an. Seriously. If nothing else it will arm you with knowledge (perhaps of what you don’t want to believe.) 👍 I think that reading the Qur’an will benefit you 1000 times more right now than asking your father or any of the “scholars” around you. (I’ve heard some “scholars” from Bangladesh argue that the sun actually goes around the earth… sigh…)

So by the way, I’m curious, are you actually atheist these days or are you Christian?
 
morning_star777 said:
oh sister amy i never told an important thing that my father is also a converted muslim(he was hindu)like you.he converted when he was young.so in my childhood he taught me islam with pressure:).He is well educated man both academic&islamic side.So i know a converted muslim can be very abusive(mental abuse)even with his son.He turned my childhood into hell with his islamic abuse.but i told you before that i can’t share my personal story with you.
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Trust me, I’ve seen all sorts of bad behavior from converted Muslims. (Including one who, when ever I see him at the masjid, I go hide in the sisters section. Seriously, he gives me the creeps in a bad way and comes talking to me when he sees me.)

But I was never a hindu.

And I am very sorry for you that you had to suffer abuse at the hands of your father. Abuse is something which transcends all religions. There is abuse from men and women of every religion, race, nationality, and language. It is something that no religion either justifies or promotes, and which ought to be universally condemned. And I think the people who try to excuse their abuse by using scriptures (whether the Qur’an, the Bible, or anything else!) are merely that, making excuses, and they need serious help.
 
planten - do you really believe that Islam teaches peace?

i guess when i have been watching the news the past 30 years i must have missed that somewhere.
 
planten&sister amy,for ur kind information i never study in madrasa or didn’t learn islam from masjid&madrasa.My father has lots of books&i read all books then learn about islam.&in my childhood i didn’t wanted to read quran&hadith but my father compeled me to read.BTW,in my adult age i learnt about islam in same way(scriptures)but thats not for fear but to know about islam& became agnostic from 2002-07.hope now i do explain myself clearly.thanks
 
That is true. There are sects and groups amongst Muslims as there in christians. I learnt that there are more than 33000 different groups in the protestants alone. The Muslims have the same One Book Quran. Yet they interpret it differently. The christians do not have a single book. They do the same.

There is no conflict in the Quran. It says that only those who have had the message of Islam explained to them in peace and good faith and they reject the message will not benefit. They will be disbelievers in islam. But no harm. They will not be Kafirs. They will be kafirs if they attack Islam in any way and become an enemy of Islam. Then they will be Kafir and Kafir is doomed for hell.

The other people, the Jews and christians and Sabians who believe in God and the next world and do good deeds have nothing to fear. They will not be harmed and they will get the reward of their good deeds. The words “Doing good befitting deeds” has much meaning. It means they will remain on their own faith and will not abuse and attack Islam. That is a major part of doing a good deed.

Similarly, The muslims are never to attack the other faiths. The Muslims are to support and co-operate with people of other faiths if they are not hostile. And so on…
 
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