Some questions about Catholic teaching

[Judy_jack]

is dra a catholic bible?

 

[seekerofanswers]

Do you seriously think that’s what it means? So, no drivers’ licenses (because they have pictures), and no cell phones (for the same reason), and no crosses (because that’s a likeness of something that was on earth)?

Definition of Graven from thefreedictionary.com

1. graven - cut into a desired shape; “graven images”; “sculptured representations”
   sculpted, sculptured
   carved, carven - made for or formed by carving (`carven’ is archaic or literary); “the carved fretwork”; “an intricately carved door”; “stood as if carven from stone”

graven means carved, sculpted, or engraved. Photos are not carved.

This is one of the most obvious cases in the whole Bible of taking a verse out of context. The verse before it and the verse after it both are talking about false gods. “Do not make a graven image” is the same thing as “Do not make an idol.” Normal imagery, not for worship, is not only approved in the Bible, it was commanded in the same book you got that from – see chapter 25 verse 18. Have you ever even read the Bible?

I always end up being appalled by the rudeness of some people on this forum. As I stated in my first post, I am currently reading the Bible. It just so happens that I have completed Exodus already, but no, I have not completed it.
Only the Jewish high priest was ever allowed to enter the room which held the Ark, and he certainly would not have bowed down to the cherubims on the Ark or prayed to angels. This is unlike the Catholic practice of bowing to graven images.

 

[seekerofanswers]

Maybe you should search for and read the Catholic argument before making assumptions based on your own personal interpretation of scripture, which is where many protestants err. Try reading these:

Thank you for these! It still leaves a few questions unanswered, but they were helpful.

 

[seekerofanswers]

Until last year I did not run over anyone, does that mean I have run over somebody in the past year?

Yes.
Definition of UNTIL. : up to the time that (from Merriam Webster)

Are there anyone, other then the Lord Jesus, called a child of Mary?

This doesn’t prove that she had no other children. Unless there is scriptural evidence that Mary had no other children I don’t see how you can establish it as doctrine.

Do you mean that Paul, the writer of Galatians, could not be using the word brother in the sense of disciple? Have you never referted to a fellow church as brother or sister?

What I am saying is: why would he restate the fact that James is a disciple by referring to him as one and as a brother?

Did God brake His own Law when He told the Isrealites to put two angles on the lid of the Ark and to put the Ark in the Holy of Holies?

God has killed people. The Great Flood, destruction of Sodom, etc…

God commands us to follow his commandments, not Himself.

Only if they are Monks.

If this were true I would be seeing many married Catholic priests.

 

[seekerofanswers]

I’m not sure about the other stuff, but the commandments tell us not to build statues for the purpose of worship. Do not make an idol for yourself, whether in the shape of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them or worship them. (Exodus 20:4-5) Catholics use statues to honor people, not worship.

Note: You must not bow down to them or worship them. Catholics don’t worship statues, but they do bow down to statues. A sin according to scripture.

Also, in the old testament, did God not command Moses to create a statue of a snake around a pole ? Or the ark of the covenant which has two figures on top of it.

If God commanded me to make a statue of a biblical figure and bow down to it, I would. Unfortunately for the Church, He never commanded the Church to do such a thing.

You mentioned something about the bible not saying anything about confessing to priest. A better question is “why does it need to ?”.

It needs to because Catholics teach that we must confess to a priest to have our sins forgiven. If it’s not in the Bible, why should it be doctrine?

 

[jmcrae]

If this were true I would be seeing many married Catholic priests.

In the Eastern Rite, we do see a great many married priests; in the Western Rite, our Bishops, and quite frankly, our congregations, who are the ones paying the bills, ultimately, prefer unmarried priests, because they are easy to move around as needed, and you can call them at 3 in the morning in an emergency.

A man with a wife and ten children has things like schools and furniture to think of; it takes him six months to move - an unmarried man can fit everything he owns into his car and start his new duties in the morning.

 

[seekerofanswers]

is dra a catholic bible?

yes

 

[jmcrae]

It needs to because Catholics teach that we must confess to a priest to have our sins forgiven. If it’s not in the Bible, why should it be doctrine?

The Bible exists to be read out at Mass during the Liturgy of the Word - it was never intended as a “user’s manual” of Christianity. Outside of the Mass, the Bible is out of context, and cannot be understood correctly apart from the Church.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation in the form that we know it is actually about 150 years older than the Bible as we know it. The Apostles did not have one-on-one Reconciliation as we know it - that came with the Desert Fathers in the 200s AD - but nor did they have a New Testament - that didn’t come until 405 AD. Speaking of “man made traditions” - it seems odd to me that the Sacraments, which are older than the Bible and require very little in the way of human work, are considered “man-made” but the one thing that could not have been created without centuries of direct, painstaking human work on the part of many men in many places and many generations apart - is not a man-made work?

Not to mention the millions of translators involved in getting the Scriptures out to book stores all over the world.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The passage is in the past tense: “**knew **her not until” . This means that, although it is not necessarily the purpose of the passage, Joseph knew her afterwards. If I said, “my house **didn’t **flood until …” it would imply that my house flooded after something, because of the use of the past tense.

It also means that the passage was to address a specific time period without dealing with another time period. Again, the point of the passage is to say that Mary is pregnant NOT by Joseph.

 

[seekerofanswers]

The Bible exists to be read out at Mass during the Liturgy of the Word - it was never intended as a “user’s manual” of Christianity. Outside of the Mass, the Bible is out of context, and cannot be understood correctly apart from the Church.

The Bible is out of context outside of the Mass?!?!? 2 Timothy 3:16 – “ All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,”

The Sacrament of Reconciliation in the form that we know it is actually about 150 years older than the Bible as we know it.

Not if you consider the Bible as we know it to be the same Bible written in another language.

The Apostles did not have one-on-one Reconciliation as we know it - that came with the Desert Fathers in the 200s AD

So one-on-one Reconciliation was not instituted by Jesus?

• but nor did they have a New Testament - that didn’t come until 405 AD.

Just because it wasn’t compiled until 405 AD doesn’t mean the texts did not exist…

Speaking of “man made traditions” - it seems odd to me that the Sacraments, which are older than the Bible and require very little in the way of human work, are considered “man-made” but the one thing that could not have been created without centuries of direct, painstaking human work on the part of many men in many places and many generations apart - is not a man-made work?

Translation is not creation and the Sacraments are not older than the Bible, excluding baptism and communion.

 

[Incomplete]

To the OP:

First, you are probably aware that there are all sorts of sources that answer these questions. None of them are things that Catholics and the Church has not considered. When you put so many in one post, it is difficult to answer them all thoroughly. But there are all sorts of books, and all sorts of places online, to find answers.

Yet more than that, think about the long history of the Church, and remember there are some very intelligent people in it, people who were very familiar with Scripture and interpreted it the same way the Church has. Even in the present, read some of Pope Benedict’s works and you’ll find a man of brilliance. Think about your interpretations: why are you right and they wrong? How can you know you are are right, and they and the Church are wrong?

When you interpret things from Scripture, and you disagree with others (Catholic or non-Catholic) how can you know who is right? You have probably heard it said that people can use Scripture to prove anything, and there is truth to that.

If God wants us to know truth, He had to provide a way. Without an infallible interpreter, without a deposit of faith, we can’t know anything.

 

[seekerofanswers]

It also means that the passage was to address a specific time period without dealing with another time period.Again, the point of the passage is to say that Mary is pregnant NOT by Joseph.

Great, but that doesn’t mean it cannot tell us something else at the same time. If Mary was indeed a perpetual virgin, don’t you think the scriptures would indicate instead that “Joseph knew her never”? They don’t give this indication anywhere.

 

[seekerofanswers]

To the OP:First, you are probably aware that there are all sorts of sources that answer these questions. None of them are things that Catholics and the Church has not considered. When you put so many in one post, it is difficult to answer them all thoroughly. But there are all sorts of books, and all sorts of places online, to find answers.

Yes, links to them were provided to me, and I have read them and continue to consider them. Some of my questions, however, were not answered, like why the wine does not taste like blood, etc. At this point I am simply replying to those people who replied to me directly.

Yet more than that, think about the long history of the Church, and remember there are some very intelligent people in it, people who were very familiar with Scripture and interpreted it the same way the Church has.

Jesus did not care for the teachings of the Pharisees, yet they had a long history. There are also some very intelligent atheists, but we certainly don’t follow their theological teachings. What you are essentially bringing this to is that the Christian denomination with the greatest intelligence has the correct interpretation.

Even in the present, read some of Pope Benedict’s works and you’ll find a man of brilliance. Think about your interpretations: why are you right and they wrong? How can you know you are are right, and they and the Church are wrong?

No one can know that they are right, just like no one can know that God exists. If we did, we couldn’t have faith, and we would all be deists. You cannot know that you are right, just as I cannot know that I am. Because of this, I really don’t know what point you are making. I could just as easily say to you: “why is the Church right and they wrong? How can you know that the Church is right, and they are wrong?”

If God wants us to know truth, He had to provide a way. Without an infallible interpreter, without a deposit of faith, we can’t know anything.

Jesus never gave anyone infallible authority over the interpretation of scripture. In fact, the opposite is true: Matthew 20:25-28.

 

[adrift]

This passage would indicate that the word “cousin” is found in the Bible, supporting the idea that Mary was not a perpetual virgin.

As some one else mentioned, you should only have one topic per thread. That is a forum rule.
I would suggest that you do a search for your topics. They have been addressed many times. Probably will continue to be.

For now I am going to address the above. The passage you quote is inaccurate and a poor translation. The word used is not cousin. They didn’t have a word for cousin. In fact, you will not find cousin in the entire bible. The word used means kinswoman. What exact relationship is unknown. She might have been a cousin, an aunt or even a more distant relative. All we know is she was an elderly relative.

You also have Mary saying she knows not man which indicates a vow of virginity. The fact the Jesus puts her care into John’s at the cross indicated that she had no other children who could take care of her. There are other indications of Jesus being an only child if you would do a search you will find the arguments for and against.

 

[adrift]

Note: You must not bow down to them or worship them. Catholics don’t worship statues, but they do bow down to statues. A sin according to scripture.

I am sure you will agree with me that there is no numbering of the commandments. In fact, if you look at them you could make a lot more than ten. So why ten? Because scripture says there are ten not commandments but words. What was meant by this was a set of thoughts.
The commandments are found in two places.
Exodus
You shall have no other gods before me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me

Deuteronomy
You shall have no other gods before me.“‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

It is clear that what the Word(commandment) is saying that you shall not worship anyone but God.
I honestly have never seen anyone bow to a statue. The statues I have seen are not carved but molded. They are not made out of wood but plaster.

 

[po18guy]

What you need is a user-friendly, orthodox and approved source that answers these and many other questions that you have. Bear in mind that innumerable myths, falsehoods and downright lies have been uttered against Christ’s Church from day one. A lie that traces back 1,900 years is stil a lie. You could truly benefit from a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. It has both the nihil obstat and Imprimatur and may used as catechetical teaching. You may peruse it at your leiusure and seek clarifications, if any are needed, here.

 

[LilyM]

Great, but that doesn’t mean it cannot tell us something else at the same time. If Mary was indeed a perpetual virgin, don’t you think the scriptures would indicate instead that “Joseph knew her never”? They don’t give this indication anywhere.

By the same token - why doesn’t scripture simply say Michal never had children? Why does it say ‘had no children until she died’? Simply - it didn’t need to. It’s obvious that a dead woman cannot have children, and it was equally obvious that Mary was vowed to lifelong virginity. Sarah didn’t ask ‘how will this happen’. Samuel’s and Samson’s mothers didn’t ask either.

It seems odd in the extreme that a woman supposedly in an ordinary betrothal relationship, supposedly looking forward as any normal woman would to marital relations with her betrothed, and with numerous examples before her of miraculous conceptions which nonetheless all took place in the context of normal marital relations, would even ask. Such a woman would know. It’s not as if Gabriel promised her immediate conception. A normal woman would think ‘great, Joseph and I will have a son’

 

[Incomplete]

Yes, links to them were provided to me, and I have read them and continue to consider them. Some of my questions, however, were not answered, like why the wine does not taste like blood, etc. At this point I am simply replying to those people who replied to me directly.

No idea how that relates to infallibility. If nobody can interpret Scripture infallibly, there is no way to know truth.

 

[po18guy]

Quick! Someone, anyone, learn to multi-quote!!! kpeople:

 

[JRKH]

Definition of Graven from thefreedictionary.com

1. graven - cut into a desired shape; “graven images”; “sculptured representations”
   sculpted, sculptured
   carved, carven - made for or formed by carving (`carven’ is archaic or literary); “the carved fretwork”; “an intricately carved door”; “stood as if carven from stone”

graven means carved, sculpted, or engraved. Photos are not carved.

This is a good point that is often overlooked.

Only the Jewish high priest was ever allowed to enter the room which held the Ark, and he certainly would not have bowed down to the cherubims on the Ark or prayed to angels. This is unlike the Catholic practice of bowing to graven images.

Three things here.

1. The Church does not require us to bow or pray before a statue. This is very important in recognizing the idea of idolatry.
2. Related to the definition you provided above on the meaning of graven…Are you saying that you would have no problem with a person “bowing and praying to” a painting?
3. Technically - we don’t pray TO a statue, we pray before (as in - in front of) a statue. The Church would denounce praying to a statue.

You have undertaken a very great task to read the Bible - I am assuming from front to back - but I might suggest that you jump ahead just a bit to Acts chapter 15. There you will find an account of the Church dealing with issues related to OT Law. In it they set-aside most of it as it relates to Gentile Christians.
Now I’m not saying that this also sets aside the ten commandments…But you are approaching a part of Bible that sets out a great many “Laws” and it might be good for you to have a good understanding of how the NT Church’s authority - given by Christ operates in relation to the OT.
In fact, I always advise people to get to know the NT (except Revelation) before they tackle the OT.

Peace
James