Some random thoughts on homosexuality

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shondrea

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Being the insomniac that I am, my late nights laying awake in bed allow me plenty of extra time to think, and last night, my throughts wandered into homosexuality.

Now, I can’t speeak for all places everywhere, but from what I see in my everyday life and a little bit on some forums here, homosexuality seems to be, like, THE topic right now. And with all the media coverage on same sex marriage and gay rights, it’s understandable. But one thing I’ve noticed among many Christians I know is that they seem to have a very hard tie following “love the sinner, hate the sin” when it comes to homosexuality.

People I know have no problem showing love and acceptance to people cohabiting, to people divorced, to those struggleing with various addictions. But with homosexuals, I find it sort of sad that the same open arms seem to close, as though people with SSA are carrying a particularly bad strain of the plague.

I wondered why this was. One of the answers I thought of was that homosexuality is one of the few sins that DEFINES a person. Yes, this is often by their own doing, choosing to live an openly gay lifestyle, but just because some of them choose to identify themselves by their sin doesn’t mean we should. Why is it so hard for many of us to see the person behind SSA? It’s one thing to revile their choices, it’s another to revile them. I know this isn’t everyone, but I’ve met people who won’t even greet a person they know is in a homosexual relationship, which I just find to be…well, hurtful.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you find it harder to be accepting of certain people, moreso than others?
 
I say do what Father said to do, and that goes for all religions to: This is what i have-------- 1st John:2:20-25 Please read this and you will know what i am saying, God Bless you always. Boxie
 
I have absolutely nothing against homosexuals. I understand that some people are born that way and that is fine. However, if they are Catholic, I expect them to live a celibate life.
 
shondrea said:
I wondered why this was. One of the answers I thought of was that homosexuality is one of the few sins that DEFINES a person.
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You have hit the nail on the head, though I would clarify - it doesn’t *really *define the person; but some homosexual people choose to define themselves by their sexuality, which can make it confusing for other people. If a homosexual person has experienced discrimination (which many have - I’m talking about real discrimination, like death threats and having their property vandalized, being beaten up, etc) this inevitably causes them to identify more deeply with their sexuality. The media also seems to encourage this kind of identification; I don’t know why.

I hope you are not saying that you see discrimination against Catholics struggling with SSA who are trying to lead chaste lives …

I grew up with some gay family members and I love them, but I think that growing up with them and having everyone in my family treat it like no big deal, left me very confused about human sexuality and what was “normal.” So, for that matter, did my cohabiting relatives. There are a lot of confused young people right now because of how tolerant (and even encouraging) our society is towards sexual sin.
 
shondrea said:
People I know have no problem showing love and acceptance to?
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I think the root of this issue is how do you define love and acceptance? Many mainstream denominations with historical roots in Christianity, and even some branches of Judaism, have rejected traditional Judeo-Christian morality rooted in the decalogue completely, and have rejected scripture and unbroken tradition that define and apply those moral laws to personal and social life. If that makes them more tolerant of deviant behavior of all types, including especially that which threatens the health of the family, the fundamental unit of a healthy society, that is cause for grief, not rejoicing or approval. True love has to be in line with God’s will since he is the author, cause and definer of love. If our definition of love and acceptance includes approval, acceptance, tolerance, enabling, abetting, promoting or event tacitly ignoring deviant behavior, our definition is flawed because it is not in line with the way God loves.

God’s love for all his children, especially and including sinners as manifested by Christ himself in his personal interactions with them, and in his preaching about sin, no where in no instance approves sinful behavior, but always expresses a love so entire and complete that it invites conversion as the natural response to that love: Zaccheus, the tearful woman, today’s woman caught in adultery are only a few examples. Our love therefore must always show the person the way to forgiveness and conversion, and never erect barriers to Christ’s grace. Lying about the nature of sin and its consequences is probably the greatest actred of hatred one person can make against another.
 
puzzleannie said:
Our love therefore must always show the person the way to forgiveness and conversion, and never erect barriers to Christ’s grace. Lying about the nature of sin and its consequences is probably the greatest act of hatred one person can make against another.
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This is so true … I wish more people understood it.
 
Many homosexuals are nice, hard working people. You have to separate the person from their sin. They are going through terrible temptations that I cannot even begin to understand. I cannot accept their lifestyle but I can accept them as people.
 
I just don’t understand how you can separate a person from his sin, because God and Jesus said No sin will get into heaven, and that he will rule with an iron fist! Can you see how strict this kingdom will be? No dogs saucers whore mongers murders, and all that live and maketh a lie. These people will not enter in. If you really love someone go and tell him he has sinned and if he doesn’t listen ate 2 more and go and tel him he has sinned and if he does not listen hand him over to satan, This is written down look it up. They have to separate themselves from sin you and i cannot. I cannot separate myself from myself can you?
 
Boxie said:
I just don’t understand how you can separate a person from his sin, because God and Jesus said No sin will get into heaven, and that he will rule with an iron fist! Can you see how strict this kingdom will be? No dogs saucers whore mongers murders, and all that live and maketh a lie. These people will not enter in. If you really love someone go and tell him he has sinned and if he doesn’t listen ate 2 more and go and tel him he has sinned and if he does not listen hand him over to satan, This is written down look it up. They have to separate themselves from sin you and i cannot. I cannot separate myself from myself can you?
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The whole point. I think you didn’t get it.
 
The main reason I have a hard time with homosexuals is it is such an obvious thing. If I see a man and woman holidng hands, I have no idea if they are living together wihtout being married. If I see 2 homosexuals holding hands, I know right away they are sinning.

I also think that living together wihtout being married, is a religious/non religious belief system. However, many non religious people are uncomfortable with homosexuality.

Also, I think when children are involved, when they see a man and woman holding hands, they start to talk about the husband and the wife. That means they don’t ask questions adults are uncomfortable answering. But rest assured, the second a kid sees two homosexuals, they start to blurt out some very embarrasing questions
 
Student09 said:
You have hit the nail on the head, though I would clarify - it doesn’t *really *define the person; but some homosexual people choose to define themselves by their sexuality, which can make it confusing for other people. If a homosexual person has experienced discrimination (which many have - I’m talking about real discrimination, like death threats and having their property vandalized, being beaten up, etc) this inevitably causes them to identify more deeply with their sexuality. The media also seems to encourage this kind of identification; I don’t know why.

I hope you are not saying that you see discrimination against Catholics struggling with SSA who are trying to lead chaste lives …

I grew up with some gay family members and I love them, but I think that growing up with them and having everyone in my family treat it like no big deal, left me very confused about human sexuality and what was “normal.” So, for that matter, did my cohabiting relatives. There are a lot of confused young people right now because of how tolerant (and even encouraging) our society is towards sexual sin.
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Student09 said:
You have hit the nail on the head, though I would clarify - it doesn’t *really *define the person; but some homosexual people choose to define themselves by their sexuality, which can make it confusing for other people. If a homosexual person has experienced discrimination (which many have - I’m talking about real discrimination, like death threats and having their property vandalized, being beaten up, etc) this inevitably causes them to identify more deeply with their sexuality. The media also seems to encourage this kind of identification; I don’t know why.

I hope you are not saying that you see discrimination against Catholics struggling with SSA who are trying to lead chaste lives …

I grew up with some gay family members and I love them, but I think that growing up with them and having everyone in my family treat it like no big deal, left me very confused about human sexuality and what was “normal.” So, for that matter, did my cohabiting relatives. There are a lot of confused young people right now because of how tolerant (and even encouraging) our society is towards sexual sin.
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Dear Student 09,

You are quite correct when you state that society has promoted sexual sin and become very tolerant with regards to it. It admits of no doubt that the western world has witnessed changes of enormous proportions within the last thirty years or so. The word ‘gay’ has been hijacked by homosexuals to define a so called alternative lifestyle that is anything but gay and many homosexuals have declared themselves and become militant. Moreover, much energy has been expended by homosexual activists in promoting homosexuality as a ‘normal’ expression of sexual behaviour. Indeed the social climate has changed to such an extent that opposition to homosexual practice is now bracketed with racism, sexism, ageism and everything else that is deedmed politically incorrect. Thus it is hardly surprising that the young are perplexed by all of this. Why we even have R.K. Rowling of Harry Potter fame announcing that one of her key characters in the Potter series of books for children is a homosexual!

Given this deplorable state of affairs, is it any wonder that many people, both within and without the Catholic Church, find its position on homosexuality insufferably homophobic? Notwithstanding the fact that the Church employs rather mild expressions and is anything but harsh, direct or uncharitable.

The Catholic Church is under no obligation to to trim its sails in order to gain the goodwill of sinful men, or to be so concilliatory that it soft pedals its message in the interests of a misguided charity or compassion; it should never baulk at using the terms sin and ‘abomination’ (Leviticus 18: 22, 20:13) to describe heinious homosexual abberant acts.

Today the increasing prevalence of those sexual perversions, which are complacently regarded by the avante-garde as ‘interesting alternative variants’, is is a dreadful mark of God’s wrath (see Romans 1: 18-32) upon a civilization which boasts of its post-Christian character. We should never forget in this morally degenerate age in which our lot is cast that homosexuality is a violation of the moral law of God. Of course we must be courteous and compassionate towards the men and women aflicted with a homosexual proclivity, that goes without saying. We must seek to tell them that the Redemption of Jesus Christ our Lord can effect liberation in this aspect of life as in others; there is hope for the homosexual in the same sense that there is hope for the promiscuous heterosexual, drug addict and alcoholic. If one is truly penitent for one’s sins then there can be forgiveness and freedom - “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has passed away, behold, the new has come” (II Corinthians 5: 18). Nevertheless, we must not give an uncertain sound on the trumpet by hesitating to denounce homosexual abberations a grave depravity and an abomination in the sight of Almighty God.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait
 
swats thread over ther collective heads

No, bad thread, bad! No Harry Potter ranting here, please! We have umpteen other threads to whine about that in, thanks.
 
Boxie said:
I just don’t understand how you can separate a person from his sin, because God and Jesus said No sin will get into heaven, and that he will rule with an iron fist! Can you see how strict this kingdom will be? No dogs saucers whore mongers murders, and all that live and maketh a lie. These people will not enter in. If you really love someone go and tell him he has sinned and if he doesn’t listen ate 2 more and go and tel him he has sinned and if he does not listen hand him over to satan, This is written down look it up. They have to separate themselves from sin you and i cannot. I cannot separate myself from myself can you?
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Are you saying you hate yourself completely because you’re a sinner?

Or would you say (as I think many of us would) that you basically love yourself as a child of God, created in His image? Even though that image might be dulled and tarnished by sin? A clay vessel that, as St Paul says, nonetheless contains treasure?
 
LilyM said:
Are you saying you hate yourself completely because you’re a sinner?

Or would you say (as I think many of us would) that you basically love yourself as a child of God, created in His image? Even though that image might be dulled and tarnished by sin? A clay vessel that, as St Paul says, nonetheless contains treasure?
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I think he or she misunderstood what was meant by “seperate”. it seems like they thought I meant we’re suppose to seperate them from the sin by CURING of the sin, getting rid of it.
 
Well, it’s true! XD I can just SEE the devastation

rolls up newspaper

So we’d better stear clear of the fay wizard, got it? 😉 Feel free to make a case for homosexuals in media in general, but PLEASE quit beating this particular dead horse.
 
OK Both of you, I meant by that separation is this If you do not want to sin then you will separate your self from things that cause you to sin and books people movies,all things that cause you to do the thing that so easily besets you. Two gay should never live together if they want to go straight that is foolish, and very unbelievable. If they are holding hands it shows approval in their relationship and they are laughing at the church, especially if they just came out of church and did that. it has been done before in some churches and we are not watch dogs they are responsible for themselves unless one of us See’s it and we should then go to them and tell them. Jesus said render to Cesar what is his but render to God first! If we say God never changes then how come we except the most horrible things that are detestable to our Father we are going to be judges for this and we should know what God wants and how we are to react to them that are not truly of the house of God. It is hypocritical to sit with the devil in the house of God !
 
shondrea said:
Well, it’s true! XD I can just SEE the devastation

rolls up newspaper

So we’d better stear clear of the fay wizard, got it? 😉 Feel free to make a case for homosexuals in media in general, but PLEASE quit beating this particular dead horse.
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Okay. 🙂 I was about to jump in about Dumbledore is actually basically the perfect model of a person with homosexual tendencies who lives a chaste life, but I’ll refrain.

Oops. Covers head. Please don’t hit me with the newspaper.
 
Boxie said:
OK Both of you, I meant by that separation is this If you do not want to sin then you will separate your self from things that cause you to sin and books people movies,all things that cause you to do the thing that so easily besets you. Two gay should never live together if they want to go straight that is foolish, and very unbelievable. If they are holding hands it shows approval in their relationship and they are laughing at the church, especially if they just came out of church and did that. it has been done before in some churches and we are not watch dogs they are responsible for themselves unless one of us See’s it and we should then go to them and tell them. Jesus said render to Cesar what is his but render to God first! If we say God never changes then how come we except the most horrible things that are detestable to our Father we are going to be judges for this and we should know what God wants and how we are to react to them that are not truly of the house of God. It is hypocritical to sit with the devil in the house of God !
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Which still has no relevance whatsoever to my main post.
 
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