Some random thoughts on homosexuality

[Portrait]

Well, you used the term “vilest” which is a superlative and hence implies comparison. I don’t want to talk about where sins fall on the loathsome scale, either. All sin is infinitely removed from God and offensive to God. Considering the issue from this point of view, one should also say that insulting another person is a very vile sin to God. Willfully missing Mass on Sunday is a very vile sin to God. Harboring uncharitable thoughts towards another person is a very vile sin to God and people who have uncharitable thoughts towards others are the vilest offenders. Correct?

Dear Student09,

Whilst I appreciate the points you make, there is surely nothing improper in using a superlative in a rhetorical sense for impressive effect and if you re-read my post you will see that that is precisely how I have used it. It is expressing the truth, albeit in a florid manner, that even inveterate sinners of the deepest dye so to speak are not beyond redemption or outside the bounds of God’s love. Now this is not only a message of hope for the homosexual, it is a message of hope for all of mankind.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Dear John,

What is very interesting is that the bible’s condemnation of beastiality comes immediately after its condemnation of homosexuality (see Leviticus 18: 22-23). Now hardly any civilised man could be found, even in our decadent age, normalizing beastiality but many are to be found championing the cause of homosexuality and seeking to make it an acceptable alternative lifestyle, yet both are equally condemned by God in the very same chapter of Sacred Scripture. That surely should cause us to pause for thought.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

My dear friend

Thanks for pointing that out. A sin is more grievous the more unnatural it is. And how can people explain to their children, nephew, nieces and other young ones why they seem to openly accept homsexual couples? You can’t do it. Jesus warns us what will happen if we cause a little one to scandal- hell. My best friend is a homosexual I’m sure but he leads a good single life as a catholic, I’d say too. You can’t compare heterosexual sins to homosexual ones. There’s a huge differene.

Thank you for your reply.

God bless you and pray for me please:thumbsup:

John

 

[Portrait]

I watched the video…The guy proved by what he said that it’s NOT the gay persons fault that he’s gay and they don’t make the absolute decision to be gay.

He said it was GENES combined with environment…Genes! Exactly!

So let me ask you all…If a person was born with a genetic disorder would you call that a sin?

I have OCD which is caused by genetics and environment–The things I’m most OCD about is hygiene so if I don’t wash my hair twice in the shower and brush my teeth twice.I literally can’t leave the house until I do it or I will feel lost and sick all day.

To cope with OCD I take a pill a day…I can’t function normally without my medicine.

Homosexuals have an deep attraction to people of the same sex.If they have sex with someone of the opposite sex they don’t feel complete they feel lost.

To cope with their feelings they engage in same sex…To feel complete,so they won’t feel lost,so they won’t feel sick.

Homosexuality is a genetic disorder!..That they can’t help without medication and their medication is intimacy with people of the same sex.

I can’t feel normal without my medicine…They can’t feel normal without their medicine.

It’s not a sin to treat my OCD and it’s not looked at as a sin.

Why do we treat one thing differently than the next?

I can’t help that I’m OCD…Gays can’t help that they’re gay.

Dear Bishop93,

I must register my profound disagreement that homosexuality is not a choice but a fact of life given from birth and linked with our chromosomes and possibly a so called “gay gene”. That is to raise the question, is there such a thing as genetic determinism? Contrary to what some people think or say, no “gay gene” has actually been discovered and it remains in the minds of some men as an unproven theory. Richard Dawkins, of Oxford, the author of the book The Selfish Gene states:

“The body of genetic determinism needs to be laid to rest”. His conclusion is clear. “Whether you hate homosexuals or whether you love them, whether you want to lock them up or ‘to cure them’, your reasons had better have nothing to do with genes. Rather admit to prejudiced emotion than especially drag genes in where they do not belong”

Whilst genetic influences and predispositions may contribute to any unwanted behaviour, it is vitally important that we are not misled by unsound research alleging that the homosexual condition is genetic or inborn.

Whatever may cause sexual desire, it continues to remain under the control of a person’s individual control; when it comes to our moral acts our desires do not override our wills.

Some homosexuals wish to remain celibate whereas others want very much to change how they respond to their sexual preferences. Homosexuals do not need, however, to pursue their preferences anymore than their heterosexual counterparts who, outside of marriage, must excercise chastity and a disciplined response to their own kind of preferences.

It may not be fashionable with the avante garde who consider homosexuality an interesting alternative variant, but the fact is that homosexuality in terms of orientation, desire and temptation has to be viewed as one of the effects of the Fall and Original Sin. This is not to single out homosexuals in some particular way; all of mankind is deeply flawed by the Fall and sin has corrupted the hearts and desires of us all - “None is righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3: 10).

Unfortunately the world is not now as it originally came from the good hands of God; mankind has rebelled and fallen into a deplorable state of sin and misery. Alas we are born into an already fallen imperfect world and we bring an already wounded human nature with us which is continually raising its ugly head. Our personalities are complexes of all manner of sinful desires. No aspect of our humanity escapes unscathed and that includes our sexuality. We may inherit various tendencies to rebel against God’s order of things and we may respond in a sinful way to diverse evil influences that we are subjected to.

Since mankind is fallen and wounded as a consequence of Original sin, it is incorrect for people to simply say, ‘God made me as I am’ or, to use your words 'it was genes combined with environment". A man is always responsible for his sins. Normally he is not responsible for his temptation, but he is responsible for his response to it.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

My dear friend

Thanks for pointing that out. A sin is more grievous the more unnatural it is. And how can people explain to their children, nephew, nieces and other young ones why they seem to openly accept homsexual couples? You can’t do it. Jesus warns us what will happen if we cause a little one to scandal- hell. My best friend is a homosexual I’m sure but he leads a good single life as a catholic, I’d say too. You can’t compare heterosexual sins to homosexual ones. There’s a huge differene.

Thank you for your reply.

God bless you and pray for me please:thumbsup:

John

Dear John,

Some very good points and yes I will remember you before the throne of grace.

Blessings be upon you and may the peace of God be yours now and always.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait:tiphat:

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Dear John,

Some very good points and yes I will remember you before the throne of grace.

Blessings be upon you and may the peace of God be yours now and always.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait:tiphat:

Thank you dear friend

God bless you:thumbsup:

John

 

[Boxie]

Dear Student09,

Whilst I appreciate the points you make, there is surely nothing improper in using a superlative in a rhetorical sense for impressive effect and if you re-read my post you will see that that is precisely how I have used it. It is expressing the truth, albeit in a florid manner, that even inveterate sinners of the deepest dye so to speak are not beyond redemption or outside the bounds of God’s love. Now this is not only a message of hope for the homosexual, it is a message of hope for all of mankind.

Warmest good wishes,

Also if i may be so bold, we are are brotheres keeper and we are to tell you when a sin is not of God he expects us to defend him on all subjects and i have not herd from heaven that God changed his mind on this subject, he will condem we are to let you know what is the desire of Gods heart and he plainly states that men together with men is an abomination. What more can i say, but one thing, It does make me sick to my stomack,

Portrait

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I think he or she misunderstood what was meant by “seperate”. it seems like they thought I meant we’re suppose to seperate them from the sin by CURING of the sin, getting rid of it.

Ah, but it seems that God is not inclined to heal people with SSA, even if they want that healing. Instead, He leaves them in that mire with threads to hold on to and leaves all the effort to the person with SSA to try to find a purpose to a life that can’t possibly have any significance. No marriage to pass on the faith. No public ministry to pass on the faith. Instead, living a life of sterile slavery with a slim hope of possibly making heaven by the skin of one’s teeth.

 

[Student09]

Instead, He leaves them in that mire with threads to hold on to and leaves all the effort to the person with SSA to try to find a purpose to a life that can’t possibly have any significance. .

You think a life without sex has no significance?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You think a life without sex has no significance?

Kindly reread my post and you’ll see the context. A person with SSA can NOT get married. A person with SSA is NOT eligible for public ministry. From my view, a single life is not a life of significance. It is a lonely, sterile life.

 

[Student09]

Kindly reread my post and you’ll see the context. A person with SSA can NOT get married. A person with SSA is NOT eligible for public ministry. From my view, a single life is not a life of significance. It is a lonely, sterile life.

Flannery O’Connor (a devout Catholic) remained single her entire life, but she spent that life writing powerful fiction and she had an effect on the lives of many people who knew her, as her letters show. To claim that her life had no significance or was sterile simply because she was not married or in public ministry is absurd, ignorant and insulting. She is only one example.

EVERY human life is a life of significance because EVERY human being is made in the Image and Likeness of God and the vocation of EVERY human being is eternal beatitude, the vision of God Himself forever.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Flannery O’Connor (a devout Catholic) remained single her entire life, but she spent that life writing powerful fiction and she had an effect on the lives of many people who knew her, as her letters show. To claim that her life had no significance or was sterile simply because she was not married or in public ministry is absurd, ignorant and insulting. She is only one example.

EVERY human life is a life of significance because EVERY human being is made in the Image and Likeness of God and the vocation of EVERY human being is eternal beatitude, the vision of God Himself forever.

Granted, there are exceptions to the rule.

By the way, telling me that what I post is “absurd, ignorant and insulting” is rather aggressive and confrontational. Not conducive to wanting to hearing what you say. Perhaps a little less aggression and trying to understand where I’m coming from might help? Telling someone who is hurting something like that doesn’t help, it makes things worse. Thank you ever so much.

 

[JaredR]

Kindly reread my post and you’ll see the context. A person with SSA can NOT get married. A person with SSA is NOT eligible for public ministry. From my view, a single life is not a life of significance. It is a lonely, sterile life.

That is a very unfortunate view considering the vocation to celibacy is praised both in Sacred Scripture and in the Catechism. It is even more unfortunate because it flies in the face of what the Church teaches on human dignity and love.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

That is a very unfortunate view considering the vocation to celibacy is praised both in Sacred Scripture and in the Catechism. It is even more unfortunate because it flies in the face of what the Church teaches on human dignity and love.

Then perhaps I wasn’t as precise as I should have been, which I will correct here after a brief explanation:

As a person saddled with the extremely heavy and unwieldy burden of same-sex attractions (which, once again, are a symptom of other, deeper issues), I am left with only one choice in how I can live my life: single.

Now, as I look around, I see couples and families enjoying life and living a full and happy life. Yes, I know that there are problems there, too…kids who are brats, spouses who occasionally get into arguments, and the ordinary stresses of everyday life.

Priests and religous, who are celibate due to oath or promise, also can live a full and happy life because their life is specially geared towards God.

A person who has those two options and chooses the third option of the single life are also doing so with both eyes open knowing what they are in for. I know a young man who feels called to the single life and is excited about it. Good for him! He sees some positive aspects in it and I am happy for him.

I am not excited about the single life. For me, the single life is one of drudgery, loneliness, boredom and sterility. There is no color, it’s all grey. There is no flavor, it’s the taste of ashes.

Of course, I know that the answer is “service.” Yes, what job is so low and demeaning that only a person with same-sex attractions could be considered worthy of performing it? Since people in the Church, generally, fear, distrust or hate (okay, maybe dislike strongly) people with same-sex attractions, public ministry of any sort is absolutely out of the question (after all, we all know every single homosexual is a potential child molester and pervert). So, what kind of service is so hurtful and hateful to the person providing it that the people in the Church would consider giving the feared, distrusted and disliked person with SSA the opportunity to perform it?

 

[Student09]

Ok, LCMS-no-more, I apologize for my strong words. Please forgive me. Now that you have explained where you’re coming form, I understand better. I do not have SSA but there are other reasons that make me think I will probably be single my whole life whether I want to or not, and may (not sure yet) also prevent me from becoming a nun; however I’m not ready to resign myself to a sterile life of no significance. That is where I’m coming from. As for loneliness, that is part of the human condition. I have talked to several married people - with GOOD marriages - who said they were very lonely.

You said the lives of religious are specially geared towards God - that’s true - I don’t think it has to be limited to religious, though. You might well be able to take private vows or vows in a Third Order. Anyone can (and should) orient their lives as completely towards God as possible.

I honestly don’t know if there is as much animosity towards people living chastely with SSA in the Church as you say there is. Jesus was hated by many in his own religious community and the more you are wrongly despised, outside of and within the Church, the more you resemble Jesus. It is not a comfort, I know, but it is true in any case.

I wish I had some really great advice for you … all I can think of right now is to ask your forgiveness for my harsh words, tell you to look to Jesus, and ask you to pray for me, and I will pray for you as well.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Ok, LCMS-no-more, I apologize for my strong words. Please forgive me. Now that you have explained where you’re coming form, I understand better. I do not have SSA but there are other reasons that make me think I will probably be single my whole life whether I want to or not, and may (not sure yet) also prevent me from becoming a nun; however I’m not ready to resign myself to a sterile life of no significance. That is where I’m coming from. As for loneliness, that is part of the human condition. I have talked to several married people - with GOOD marriages - who said they were very lonely.

You said the lives of religious are specially geared towards God - that’s true - I don’t think it has to be limited to religious, though. You might well be able to take private vows or vows in a Third Order. Anyone can (and should) orient their lives as completely towards God as possible.

I honestly don’t know if there is as much animosity towards people living chastely with SSA in the Church as you say there is. Jesus was hated by many in his own religious community and the more you are wrongly despised, outside of and within the Church, the more you resemble Jesus. It is not a comfort, I know, but it is true in any case.

I wish I had some really great advice for you … all I can think of right now is to ask your forgiveness for my harsh words, tell you to look to Jesus, and ask you to pray for me, and I will pray for you as well.

Thank you. I understand. The internet is not conducive toward a compassionate exchange of ideas, so I accept your apology.

It’s not the Church that I’m upset with. It’s Her people. In generally, I don’t trust people in general and I definitely don’t trust people I perceive to think I am some sort of freak, which is how Christians view people with SSA. It’s hard to think that people who think of you as a freak can like or love you as well.

 

[Boxie]

I TRULY GIVE UP WITH RELIGION AT LEAST IN THIS THREAD, SAYING THINGS ABOUT THE PROTESTANTS ARE NOT LOOKED AT BUT WE MUST BE LOVING TO GAY PEOPLE THAT MAKE ME SICK TO MY STOMACK wow!

 

[Portrait]

I TRULY GIVE UP WITH RELIGION AT LEAST IN THIS THREAD, SAYING THINGS ABOUT THE PROTESTANTS ARE NOT LOOKED AT BUT WE MUST BE LOVING TO GAY PEOPLE THAT MAKE ME SICK TO MY STOMACK wow!

Dear Boxie,

We are enjoined by our heavenly Father to show love and compassion towards all men and to be a Christlike friend to them irrespective of thier sins or moral failures. It is the sin that we are to loathe and denounce not the individual perpetrating the sin.

Our Lord was a friend of sinners and as His followers we need to consider what it means to be involved as friends in the battle for the souls of men. Surely if we desire to be friends to those who are afflicted with homosexual tendencies, we must first be open to the fact that there are many forms of lustful struggles going on below the surface of life, including homosexuality.

A friend or relation who struggles with homosexuality surprises and frightens far too many Christians. Alas many feel shocked and afraid and typically aloof. Sometimes even very orthodox Christians can be harsh and unsympathetic when they encounter those with a homosexual proclivity. It was very sad, for example, to read that BobObob earlier in this thread felt that if he commited an act of sodomy he would be treated worse than a fornicator by people at his religious college. To respond in such a manner is to entirely miss the core issues of pain and sin and the opportunity for doing good by being a Christlike friend.

Whilst it is true that we must not mince our words when speaking of homosexual acts of grave depravity, we must equally avoid approaching homosexuality from a self-righteous and unfeeling attitude. We must endeavour to ensure that we do not alieanate the very souls that we are seeking to help and hopefully bring to a state of penitence. We must give tender and loving treatment to those who are crushed down under the burden and guilt of sin; a stern condemnation may discourage and break down - “he will not break a bruised reed or quench a smouldering wick” (St. Matt. 12: 20). Let us follow our Lord’s example when dealing with sinners, both within the bosom of the Church and without.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Boxie]

Dear Portrit, I do understand all you have said and it sounds really good to do but i was thinking about this, no in the good book it says, suffer not a witch to live and they didn’t but then it got out of control. now they do have churches here in this country and they don’t have to pay taxes because it is their civil right not to because it is a house of worship. OK. We let the go and that was against Father. now i do not nor would i condone treating any one badly and actually knew a person and gave her a ride home once in my life.But how far are they going to take it? Now they want our Churches and when you do this you are letting an abomination enter in as Father God said. I do not hate them and i pray they all change before they die so they will not die in their sins.But we are responsible to let them know they are sinning and it is not a good thing to do. I can compare what they do to adultery, and fornicating only but not other sins Murder is the worst and then comes the ones i mentioned and then it’s only small ones.
You know you just made me think, you are right people that cheat on their spouses and commit adultery are just as bad as committing a gay act.I will try to be better on this subject thank you so much. God Bless you and thank you for being nice to me It is a good idea to be nice to all, i know i felt good that you were so sweet to me. BY

 

[JaredR]

Dear Portrit, I do understand all you have said and it sounds really good to do but i was thinking about this, no in the good book it says, suffer not a witch to live and they didn’t but then it got out of control. now they do have churches here in this country and they don’t have to pay taxes because it is their civil right not to because it is a house of worship. OK. We let the go and that was against Father. now i do not nor would i condone treating any one badly and actually knew a person and gave her a ride home once in my life.But how far are they going to take it? Now they want our Churches and when you do this you are letting an abomination enter in as Father God said. I do not hate them and i pray they all change before they die so they will not die in their sins.But we are responsible to let them know they are sinning and it is not a good thing to do. I can compare what they do to adultery, and fornicating only but not other sins Murder is the worst and then comes the ones i mentioned and then it’s only small ones.
You know you just made me think, you are right people that cheat on their spouses and commit adultery are just as bad as committing a gay act.I will try to be better on this subject thank you so much. God Bless you and thank you for being nice to me It is a good idea to be nice to all, i know i felt good that you were so sweet to me. BY

Boxie, you seem to be confusing condition and lifestyle. A homosexual person does not need to change his or her orientation if that is even possible; her or she simply needs to live a chaste life (as all are called to do). For sure, no one is suggesting that we should deem acceptable any kind of sexual expression which does not have its roots in Eden. God revealed the proper meaning and purpose of sex in Sacred Scripture. Pope John Paul II did a wonderful thing in showing this through his series of letters and encyclicals on the Theology of the Body.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Dear Portrit, I do understand all you have said and it sounds really good to do but i was thinking about this, no in the good book it says, suffer not a witch to live and they didn’t but then it got out of control. now they do have churches here in this country and they don’t have to pay taxes because it is their civil right not to because it is a house of worship. OK. We let the go and that was against Father. now i do not nor would i condone treating any one badly and actually knew a person and gave her a ride home once in my life.But how far are they going to take it? Now they want our Churches and when you do this you are letting an abomination enter in as Father God said. I do not hate them and i pray they all change before they die so they will not die in their sins.But we are responsible to let them know they are sinning and it is not a good thing to do. I can compare what they do to adultery, and fornicating only but not other sins Murder is the worst and then comes the ones i mentioned and then it’s only small ones.
You know you just made me think, you are right people that cheat on their spouses and commit adultery are just as bad as committing a gay act.I will try to be better on this subject thank you so much. God Bless you and thank you for being nice to me It is a good idea to be nice to all, i know i felt good that you were so sweet to me. BY

I agree with you for the most part, but I think it’s important to point out that we are talking about people that, I hear from good authority, whom God loves so much that He became man die for them, or should I say us as I am burdened with SSA. Generally speaking, people with SSA have festering wounds in their soul. Not because they chose them but because they were inflicted upon them by others, intentionally or not. SSA is a manifestation of the rot inside a person’s soul because of these festering wounds and acting out on those attractions acts as a form of salve on those wounds. It hurts less. It makes one feel better because of the needed attention from another male.

The problem is in how at attention and even affection (yes, affection, people need affection from members of the same sex) from the other male is given and received. If expressed sexually, it acts as a temporary fix but there’s no actual honest exchange of anything. It’s just pleasure. Having good, non-sexual friendships with other males who possess those things the SSA person feels lacking is a good, healthy way of dealing with those wounds. It lets the SSA person learn to accept friendship from other males in an appropriate, non-sexual way which is part of the path to healing.

I see it as a path of gaining a good decent respect and love for one’s self as a man through the development of a healthy self-image and healthy same-sex friendships. I’ve barely started down my path. I’m learning that it’s not an easy path at all. It’s very difficult and hurts terribly at times. It hurts because the festering emotional wounds are finally exposed and those emotions can be expressed and released. Realizing things about one’s self that one doesn’t like is also a very difficult part of the journey, but that’s part of every Christian’s struggle, isn’t it?

Sorry I went to long. I have a lot to say on the topic.