Some say to stop using the word ‘American’. What’s next?

[twf]

Not even Vancouver?

 

[LateCatholic]

Did you actually READ the guideline? I read it and it is actually really good stuff.
First, it is only a guideline.
Second, it states that when you use terms, be aware of their history and how they could be offensive. It’s educational. It is actually fascinating.

For example, the only reason “American” is listed is that technically “American” refers to anyone from the continents of North and South America. You probably mean US citizen. Fine. But why would that bother you? That’s true. And it’s just a guideline.

And yes, some of it is overboard, like don’t use “freshman” because it’s masculine.

But most is actually very useful. For example, “hip hip hooray” comes from the Nazi use of the term to round up Jews during the Holocaust, actually originating during the Hep-Hep riots. No one is saying don’t use it if you want to, just be aware of the history and how some may be offended.

I think it’s great. Read it and decide.

 

[babochka]

Not even Vancouver?

Nope. When I was six, my family visited Victoria. It was my first trip out of the country and my only trip to Canada. Its English gardens are forever etched in my mind, defining Canada for me. A narrow view, perhaps. Someday I hope to visit further north and expand my vision.

 

[ZMystiCat]

“Vancouver, that’s near Toronto then?” Yes I was asked that in Minnesota once.

I should have replied “yes, just like Seattle is a suburb of New York.”

Humorously, people in Seattle would probably know that Vancouver is not near Toronto, given how close Seattle and Vancouver are.

 

[babochka]

Sarcelle:

babochka:

This is actually a serious question, as I’ve heard more than once that Canadians are somewhat annoyed by this and go out of their way to avoid giving people that impression. As a teenager, I visited Europe and noticed a number of Canadians wearing Canadian flags pins.

How do you know that these Canadians are really Canadians?

I’ve heard of people from the USA who pretend to be Canadians in order to avoid anti-USA sentiments from those they meet.

That sentiment you refer has many origins through history, communist political influences did exist during decades. (Don’t forget you guys historically also had a different purchasing power compared to most Europeans.)

Nowadays, I’d say US citizens tend to stand out in the crowd - there’s both a familiarity (because of TV) and a strangeness because most Europeans don’t get much contact with US citizens.

You folks also have a very different lifestyle and way of interacting.

(I sometimes see youtubers saying they had nightmare experiences in Europe but I don’t take that at face value. They either weren’t geared to finding their way around, or had those exceptional cases of “Murphy’s law”.)

–Ohh, and most of the things you’re bound to complain about happen to Europeans traveling within the EU, it’s just a difference in degree.

My experiences in Europe have been fine. Aside from Paris, the people have been welcoming and helpful. Especially in Italy. I love Italians. Paris is just Paris, I guess. The experience of foreigners in Paris seems to be universal. I’m told it is a wonderful place once you get to know it.

 

[ZMystiCat]

My experiences in Europe have been fine. Aside from Paris, the people have been welcoming and helpful.

I didn’t find the people in Zurich particularly warm, welcoming, and helpful. I would definitely want to be with someone more familiar with the city if I ever went back, which I actually wouldn’t mind doing some day given that I don’t think I experienced the city to its fullest.

In contrast, Italy, for how little time I stayed, was really nice. I want to do a dedicated trip there some day.

 

[Padres1969]

Not really. California is about as close to a European style government and social structure as exists in the US. And it continues to move in that direction (in direct and open opposition to the Fed).

 

[babochka]

Not really. California is about as close to a European style government and social structure as exists in the US. And it continues to move in that direction (in direct and open opposition to the Fed).

So being Californian excludes one from being American? Last I checked, the state of California didn’t issue my passport. Those of us who feel a bit excluded from California politics still count as both Californians and Americans.( I guess I can just fall back on tribal citizenship. Or maybe someday I’ll be a part of the State of Jefferson.)

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is why I go to Asia for holiday instead of Europe.

I know I will not be treated well when I go to Europe because of my nationality so I avoid it.

Huh? I go to Europe frequently, often by myself, and I don’t run into ill treatment for being from USA.

Sometimes store clerks are rude or something but I’m pretty sure they’re rude to all the tourists, big deal.

I stay primarily in chain hotels, rather than seeking out B&Bs, unless it’s a place where B&Bs are prevalent like Blackpool for example, and in that case you can find ones with nice owners via reviews. The chain hotels treat everybody pretty much the same.

I’m also pretty self-sufficient and don’t go around engaging all the locals in conversation and asking them for recommendations or directions. I have met tourists who want to have conversations with everybody they meet (and tell you endlessly about these conversations later, “that nice man we met in the gelato shop on, what street was that? blahblahblah”) and get put off if some person doesn’t want to talk with them. I’m not that way - if somebody wants to have a chat they can start one with me and I will be friendly, but I’m not going to expect someone working in a hotel, restaurant or bar to drop everything and converse with me. I know for some people, conversing with locals is something they very much like to do on vacations, it’s part of the experience, whereas for me I’m usually there to see particular buildings or places, or to visit friends and I see some of the area while my friends are working, etc. But I also think that a whole lot of people on vacation talk much, much too much.

Maybe I come off as unfriendly myself, I don’t know, but I am at least quiet as there’s only one of me, and I don’t think I leave my rooms in a terrible mess either - I put the trash in the trash bins and such - so basically no problem and I’ve been to 15 European countries, several of them more than once. I’m also very obviously from USA as I wear graphic tees and don’t pretend to be Canadian or any such silliness.

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s nice to hear you were treated well.

I was looking at conversations at online forums and I can see the way some Europeans talk about Americans with contempt.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are plenty of US forums where the US folks talk about Europeans with contempt also. Europeans from country A also sometimes slam Europeans from country B. It’s similar to how Americans from New York will derisively speak of Americans from Texas, and Americans from Ohio might complain about Americans from California.

Aside from visiting my friends, who if they have trouble with USA or other US citizens at least don’t have trouble with me, I am not in Europe to engage with people on their ideas about “Americans”. I’m there to see some particular attraction and to spend money in their country. The guy selling me an egg sandwich at the subway station is interested in selling me a sandwich, he’s not going to insult me as long as I am polite, don’t make an annoyance of myself, and have money in my hand. Same for pretty much everybody else I meet.

I obviously don’t do anything inflammatory like walk down the street in a Trump sweatshirt or complain that stuff here isn’t like “in America” or complain about poor service and so forth. I see plenty of US tourists doing jerky stuff like that and if they are mistreated it’s their own fault, they need to learn to behave more like guests and not like entitled boors.

 

[Salibi]

I have met tourists who want to have conversations with everybody they meet (and tell you endlessly about these conversations late

As a person who meets a lot of talkative tourists, I can say that sometimes I’m in a hurry or I don’t really feel like talking and I just say “Excuse me” or just ignore them. Absolutely no ill will at all. Because of this, I tend not to get too upset if someone ignores me or is abrupt with me abroad.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I worked in DC for a decade and it was very hard at times to be patient with the tourists, who would be arriving in droves in the same train station all us commuters used, every day, pretty much from March to November and again at Christmas. I can totally understand any dislike of tourists - many of them from just about every country are annoying in their own way, whether it’s being drunk and loud, letting their kids run wild, or having to take 85 photographs of their girlfriend posing in front of everything.

 

[Salibi]

can totally understand any dislike of tourists - many of them from just about every country are annoying in their own way, whether it’s being drunk and loud, letting their kids run wild, or having to take 85 photographs of their girlfriend posing in front of everyth

I don’t “dislike” tourists (let’s face it, they’re great for the economy) as much as I dislike certain tourist behaviours. For example, it’s well and good to feel like “exploring”, but please understand that this is a residential, not a touristic, neighbourhood where it’s no one’s job to be polite to you. Also, an oldie, but please be mindful of local culture. In some countries, shops are always closed on Sundays, and yes, I will most certainly be rude to you if you stop me on the street to complain loudly about it. In addition, this is very common-sense but you’d be shocked at the number of times it’s happened to me, but please do not stop any local you see fast-walking down the street to chat. You may be on vacation but people have work and universities to be getting to. One time I was late and I was literally running down the sidewalk and this guy just says, “Excusee meee” and steps into my way only for me to jostle past him while saying, Get out of the way, d*mmit”.

 

[Sarcelle]

I lived in Hawaii and I’ve seen my fill of ugly tourist behavior.

However not all tourists who are treated badly, and I’m not talking about merely being subjected to rudeness, but full on verbal assault, deserves to be treated that way. There are those with exemplary behavior who still get verbally abused. I have had several friends and family members who are shy and reserved, no way boorish and they got subjected to that treatment.

 

[DeniseNY]

I felt the same way in NY. Walking slowly six across on the sidewalk, stopping in the middle of the sidewalk for no apparent reason (would it be so difficult to move over to the side)? And a lot of pushing and aggressive behavior in stores like Century 21. And not to mention treating the 9/11 memorial like Disneyworld (and to be fair, that’s not limited to foreign tourists only).

 

[Salibi]

Yes. It’s not that rude people don’t exist in host countries. I was once pushed roughly aside in the Czech Republic. I was walking down a street and minding my own business. And more than once Czechs turned their faces from me and muttered darkly whenever I tried to ask for directions. I read somewhere that it’s considered rude in their culture for someone to approach someone he doesn’t know on the street, so I guess I was the unwitting offender here.

Ultimately, rude people exist on both sides. The key is not to let it ruin your trip.

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s true.

However I am not talking being subjected to a bit of rudeness or indifference by someone who is in a hurry or is just fed up with tourists in general. In fact I can empathize.

I am talking about being harangued by strangers when they know your nationality about the election of Trump as if you were personally responsible and you know for a fact you didn’t elect him.

That’s one example I am talking about.

 

[Salibi]

am talking about being harangued by strangers when they know your nationality about the election of Trump as if you were personally responsible and you know for a fact you didn’t elect him.

Oh. How rude of them. Yes, that’s definitely a big no-no in my books-on the part of the host, of course.

 

[Convert3]

I learned early on that when visiting other countries, especially non-English speaking countries, it’s best to learn a few words in their language in case you need to ask for something. It goes a long way. Even if you don’t learn much, they appreciate your trying.