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Emmit_Fitzhume
Guest
My friend, thanks for your support, but I already know he will not be able to, because everything is sound Catholic Doctrine
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Sirach2
Guest
The posts I refer to were not admonishments, even though you may want to justify it as such. They were definitely not filled with the charity of one who is called by God to admonish. Is that how the Spirit admonishes you? With put-downs? You don’t know Him well, then. I call it “accuser of the brethren” and we KNOW where THAT comes from.
Consider this as an admonishment to correct your words. If you want to make comparisons, you did not see any sarcasm as I administered it.
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floresco
Guest
I dare say that there are some posters associated with the SSPX about whom this is true. Some of them are Not Very Nice. But it is illogical to conclude that everyone associated with the SSPX is like this or that somehow it represents an official position. So it is not astute at all.
I am fairly certain that we could find some OF supporters who are also Not Very Nice. Should we conclude from this that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is not of God? This really is not a good line of argument.
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kozlosap
Guest
Amen and Shalom:thumbsup:
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Sirach2
Guest
Dum_Spiro_Spero said:
The content of my post was not about doctrine - only fruit. Do you accept my challenge to provide the good stuff?
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pnewton
Guest
If one undermines the authority of one Council, the authority of all is undermined. I think this is a straw man. I have never heard any Catholic that accepts Vatican II also reject any other council.
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pnewton
Guest
For the record, I do not accept that the SSPX is outside the Catholic Church, at least completely. Imperfect communion is the current phrase used. In any case, the relationship with Mother Church has nothing to do with doctrine held. One can hold every correct doctrine and still separate oneself or one’s group from the CHurch.
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maurin
Guest
Son, when thou comest to the service of God, stand in justice and in fear: and prepare thy soul for temptation
Humble thy heart, and endure: incline thy ear, and receive the words of understanding: and make not haste in the time of clouds.
Wait on God with patience: join thyself to God and endure, that thy life may be inreased in the latter end.
Take all that is shall be brought to thee: and in thy sorrow endure, and in thy humiliation keep patience.
For gold and silver are tried in the fire, but acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.
O ye angels og the Lord, bless the Lord: O ye heavens, bless the Lord…: O Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, bless ye the Lord: praise and exalt Him above all forever.
Let us bless the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, let us praise and exalt Him above all forever.
Blessed art thou in the firmament of heaven: and worthy of praise, and glorious forever.
Sirach, we accept your insults as a badge of honor, confirmed and edified by the Truth of our Caholic Faith, and firm in the knowledge that it is the father of lies who is angered by the Truth.
She shall crush his head. The gates of hell shall not prevail.
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floresco
Guest
My take on the thread is that your affiliation with the Society is not the sole reason you have been attacked. You come across to me as somewhat confrontational and belligerent. Perhaps others have a similar impression of you and their hostility is in reaction to that. You might find it useful to think about the tone of your own posts.
I see you changed how you identify your religion. While this is an improvement, I think it still has implications that you don’t really want. You are a Roman Catholic. When you use further words to modify this it implies that you are something other than Roman Catholic.
I agree with you about the need to increase charity in online discussions. I have always found it more effective to do this by striving to be more charitable myself than by telling others to be more charitable. I am the only one who is likely to listen to me and even I don’t do it all the time.
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StTommyMore
Guest
The SSPX rejects the validity of the Ordinary Form and denigrates a Traditional Order that is in full communion with Rome. Nuff Said.
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maurin
Guest
With all due respect, the authority of previous councils most certainly was undermined by the VII. Est replaced by subsistit in, the false ecumenism, the suppression of the Roman Canon…etc ad nauseum.
I respectfully an gently suggest that the introduction of a strawman most certainly not introduced by Emmit.
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StTommyMore
Guest
Truly spoken by one who has never bothered to read the Vatican II documents.
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maurin
Guest
False. The Society certainly accepts the validity of the very ordinary form of the Mass when celebrated with right intention and according to its rubrics.
The ep’s of the ordinary form of the Mass bear a striking resemblance to those which St Thomas More gave his life resisting, btw.
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maurin
Guest
Tommy, please. Take deep breath. A Pater Noster, perhaps. And then try to converse.
Your insults are truly beneath you, and bear no resemblance to truth.
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StTommyMore
Guest
he SSPX says that you should not attend an FSSP parish because they accept the validity of the Novus Ordo. Do not accuse me of lying again.
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StTommyMore
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Bbigam
Guest
Certainly, if that happened. (I simply don’t know whether it did or not.) The form of receiving Holy Communion is important, but it is discipline, not dogma. Communion in the Hand wasn’t ever mentioned in Vatican II, and came about somewhat separately from the Missal of 1969, if I understand it properly. Communion in the hand could easily go away without the Mass of Paul VI going away. I’d be in favor of that.
I tend to agree with this. Since when is it truly Catholic to reject the authority of an Ecumenical Council approved by the popes, or to reject the authority of the pope to promulgate changes to the Sacred Liturgy? Instead, we must accept and understand those in the light or what came before - Ordinary vs. Authoritative vs. Extraordinary vs. Infallible notwithstanding. We can dislike a change, but that doesn’t mean we can disobey it.
I’m sorry that you feel attacked. It might not have helped when you assumed that I reject the councils prior to Vatican II, accept protestants and athiests, and so on. It looks like you may have legitimate concerns regarding the charity of one poster. Are the rest of us attacking you as well? Please don’t make accusations and lump us all together just because several of us disagree with the SSPX. That is not the same as attacking you personally.I can see the virtue of Christian charity is in abundance on this board and in The Church. I simply joined a conversation and I have been attacked for the sole reason that I am afiliated with the Society. You all kindly accept protestants of all flavors and atheists, etc. yet when you come in contact with someone in the Society, you loose all your Christian virtues and attack us as if we are destroying The Church, meanwhile we are trying to save OUR Church be defending it against the true enemy of modernism.
Thank you so much for your kind receptionI will be praying for you all at Mass
Thank you for praying for us at Mass.
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Onegin
Guest
I love that you resurrected this thread just to say something totally incorrect.
The SSPX doesn’t reject the validity of the Novus Ordo/OF.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Can you find me in that document you linked to—were the Society uses those words you attribute to them. The ones —reject validity.
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Bbigam
Guest
Maurin is right that the SSPX do accept that the “New Mass” can be valid. They don’t accept it as being authentic Catholic Liturgy, though, (with which I strongly disagree).
I don’t know what he’s talking about withe “suppression of the Roman Canon,” though. I heard it today, in English, at a very reverent Ordinary Form Mass. Granted, it’s a rather poor English translation, but a better one is coming soon! And the Latin of the Ordinary Form Roman Canon is almost (not quite) identical to the Canon of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass.
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