Some think Matthew 4:4 is teaching sola Scriptura

[medwigel]

The church sorted it out in the fourth century and Protestants removed the books.

What books were removed by the Protestants?

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel (regarding the work of confessing Christ “with your lips”). . .

I wouldn’t call in “works”.

Well OK. YOU don’t call the work of “confessing with your lips” a “work”. Fine.

Others COULD say the same thing regarding “works” of mercy like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.

They might say . . . .

I wouldn’t call these works “works”.

All that means is you are denying a work is a work.
It does not mean you are affirming what is in Scripture.

I affirm you must “confess with your lips” AND “believe in your heart”.

But I don’t want to get into St. Paul stressing the NEED to work (if you want, I’d be happy to start another thread on THAT).

But I am still left wondering if you MUST live by EVERY WORD that comes forth from the mouth of God as Jesus says.

And since Jesus is “the WORD” made flesh, do “you affirm you must receive the Word became flesh and dwelt among us?”

 

[medwigel]

Ok, after giving it though, “confess with your mouth and believe in your heart” is not works but an act of faith. Doing so is an act of faith that you have in Christ and what He has done for you. The only thing you are “working” is your faith.
That same faith will help you live by God’s word, even when what the Bible tells you to do is hard.

So I guess what you are calling works I am calling faith.

 

[medwigel]

And since Jesus is “the WORD” made flesh, do “you affirm you must receive the Word became flesh and dwelt among us?”

You must believe that the Word became flesh.

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

You must believe that the Word became flesh.

Is that ALL?

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

Ok, after giving it though, “confess with your mouth and believe in your heart” is not works but an act of faith.

OK.

And all other works can be called “acts of faith” too.

Now the question is . . . . Do you NEED to carry out these WORKS that are “acts of faith” in ANY sense for salvation?

 

[medwigel]

But I am still left wondering if you MUST live by EVERY WORD that comes forth from the mouth of God as Jesus says.

YES you must live still live by EVERY WORK that comes from the mouth of God. He has never instructed us to stop living by His word.
Psalms 119:105 says of God’s word “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path”. That means that God’s work is meant to guide you and you life and illuminate what you should do.
We are also told: Prov.3 Verses 5 to 6. [5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. [6] In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
See how we are told to do something- trust/have faith.

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

YES you must live still live by EVERY WORK that comes from the mouth of God. He has never instructed us to stop living by His word.

I think you mean . .

YES you must live still live by EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God. He has never instructed us to stop living by His word.

Is this correct?

 

[medwigel]

Now the question is . . . . Do you NEED to carry out these WORKS that are “acts of faith” in ANY sense for salvation?

Salvation only comes to those who believe, so you must have faith to believe.
Now those works you speak of is done as an evidence of your faith.
James 2:14-26 deals with this. You must put your faith into action, so your faith should result in works that glorify God.

 

[medwigel]

YES you must live still live by EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God. He has never instructed us to stop living by His word.

Yes, that’s what I meant

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

Now those works you speak of is done as an evidence of your faith.
James 2:14-26

But I haven’t appealed to St. James.

I appealed to St. Paul.

What WORKS do others NEED TO DO, for YOU to get saved?

 

[medwigel]

What WORKS do others NEED TO DO, for YOU to get saved?

So let me ask you a question, how do you think someone becomes a believer in Christ?

 

[medwigel]

What WORKS do others NEED TO DO, for YOU to get saved?

No one can save another person or do it for them. Each individual must make their own confession of faith for themselves.
We can help the person by sharing the Word with them and sharing our own faith journey but the ultimate act of being saved is an individual thing; it’s between you and God alone.

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

No one can save another person

.

But I didn’t say someone can “save” someone else.

But other people’s WORKS still have a NECCESSARY role in their faith formation.

And I asked you about that.

Cathoholic . . .

What WORKS do others NEED TO DO, for YOU to get saved?

.

medwigel . . .

the ultimate act of being saved is an individual thing . . .

.

But you said . . .

Salvation only comes to those who believe, so you must have faith to believe.

I agree you MUST believe.

But that doesn’t mean you don’t NEED works too. (What about “confessing with your lips” in Romans 10 that YOU appealed to? Is that “optional”?)

You appealed to Romans 10 (and I am glad you did).

But Romans 10 ALSO tells us “faith comes from HEARING the word PREACHED to you.”

And if someone needs to do the WORK of preaching to get faith, then we can conclude salvation isn’t MERELY “an individual thing” and we can also conclude that at least the WORK of “men” preaching Christ . . . is part of that process of “faith” and thus of salvation.

Yet you seem to think “being saved is (merely) an individual thing”.

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ROMANS 10:14-15, 17 14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” .
. . . 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.

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medwigel . . .

the ultimate act of being saved is an individual thing; it’s between you and God alone.

.

St. Paul . . .

"faith comes from what is HEARD, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" in the context of “men” preaching Christ.

 

[Cathoholic]

ROMANS 10:9 9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord AND believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

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medwigel (here) . . .

“confess with your mouth . . . ” is not works but an act of faith. . . . .
. . . So I guess what you are calling works I am calling faith.

.

So what you are saying is . . .

NOT ROMANS 10:9 (but a phantom verse) 9 because, if you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Is the SAME as this (?) . . .

ROMANS 10:9 9 because, IF you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord AND believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

(The reason I ask is because, the verse doesn’t SAY what you are saying.)

 

[medwigel]

NOT ROMANS 10:9 (but a phantom verse) 9 because, if you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

This is no the same.
You must speak. There is great power in speaking because words have power. So it’s not enough to just believe that Jesus is Lord, you must confess it with your mouth. By speaking you are making a statement for everyone to hear.

 

[medwigel]

And if someone needs to do the WORK of preaching to get faith, then we can conclude salvation isn’t MERELY “an individual thing” and we can also conclude that at least the WORK of “men” preaching Christ . . . is part of that process of “faith” and thus of salvation.

Yet you seem to think “being saved is (merely) an individual thing”.

Many people have heard the Word and still don’t believe. So the ultimate step of salvation is up to the individual. There were many who heard Jesus in person and still rejected Him. So again, merely hearing the Word does not bring about salvation. Each person must decide, after what they have heard, if they accept and believe in Christ.
It’s kind of like an election- you may belong to a particular party and you may hear all the campaign speeches, you see all the adds and you discuss with family and friends but in the end, you are the only person in that voting booth and you have to make a decision on your own; no one else can push the button for you.
Yes the person must hear the Word and that is work on the part of the person preaching the Word. But mind you, to work is done by the believer preaching the Word.

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

So again, merely hearing the Word does not bring about salvation.

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But I never said or intimated merely hearing the Word brings about salvation.

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I said . . .

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. . if someone needs to do the WORK of preaching to get faith, then we can conclude salvation isn’t MERELY “an individual thing” and we can also conclude that at least the WORK of “men” preaching Christ . . . is part of that process of “faith” and thus of salvation.
.
Yet you seem to think “being saved is (merely) an individual thing”.

.

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medwigel . . .

But mind you, to work is done by the believer preaching the Word.

So is this WORK necessary for salvation medwigel?

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

You must speak.

So you MUST speak if you are to be saved or “confess with your lips” as well as “believe in your heart”?

 

[Cathoholic]

medwigel . . .

We can help the person by sharing the Word with them

No doubt “we can help”.

But is it NECESSARY?