Somebody claims the Catholic Church canonized heretics

[JMMJ]

Don’t fight with your friend. He is allowed to have different beliefs. It isn’t kind to engage in unnecessary conversation that enrages someone.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

For St. Alphonsus, we don’t have that evident scientific basis since he was canonized around early 19th century.

If anything, St. Alphonsus had a MORE rigorous process. They canonized very few people in his day. He was canonized by Pope Gregory XVI, who canonized a grand total of 5 saints, including St. Alphonsus, during a 15-year reign.

On the other hand, St. Pope John Paul II was criticized for relaxing the canonization requirements and canonizing everybody and his brother.
Pope JPII canonized 482 saints during a 28-year reign. Even if we count the groups of martyrs as each being one saint, he performed 110 canonizations. The total number of saints he canonized was more than the combined total of canonizations in the past 600 years.

 

[Dovekin]

EugeneCharles:

For St. Alphonsus, we don’t have that evident scientific basis since he was canonized around early 19th century.

I don’t know when the more scientific inquiries where implemented, but perhaps someone else does.

A more rigorous process was introduced in the 17th century, but it was Propspero Lambertini, who would later become Benedict XIV, who literally wrote the book on the process for canonization in 1740s. It was a judicial process, with a postulator who proposed a candidate and someone who opposed the cause, known as the Devil’s advocate. Whatever scientific or historical evidence available could be used. Miracles were examined by medical doctors when appropriate, and then by theological experts, etc.

This was the process in use until JP2 changed it in the 1980s. Modeled more on academia, it was less contentious and more collaborative, in theory.

 

[runningdude]

I told him that’s not how argumentation work: if he makes a claim, he must support his claim, not demand that I go hunting for his proof.

He became enraged that I wouldn’t read The Glories of Mary and hung up.

Not everyone is interested in formal rhetorical debate. They make the argument they want to make. You accept or reject their premise. If you ask for examples, and he doesn’t want to give them, you are not obligated to tell him he lost the debate. You can just say your not convinced, and be done with it.

 

[ddiemer.catholic]

Good advice. I should have recognized that.

As I think about the conversation, I rejected his premise, but when I asked for examples (later proof), he told me to read “The Glories of Mary.”

 

[SanAndreas]

You are raising some very interesting points here. About your friend Greg, being a
baptised Catholic doesn’t necessarily make him an authority of our faith.

Maybe he himself puts himself outside church doctrine calling Saints- heretics.
This is a very common symptom of those subscribing to ideas of the sedevacantists.

‘Canonisation’ is the final step in declaring a deceased person a Saint. After five years one can
be recommended for that process, and to reach this stage, two miracles need to be attributed to prayers made to the candidate. First they have to get ‘beatified’.

Maximilian Kolbe died in a concentrationcamp Auschwitz, volunteering his life to save a father of 2,
that makes him a martyr par excellence. He died in 1941 (a gruesome death of starvation for 14 days) and was canonized in 1882. You dare to deny his sainthood - Greg?

St. Alphonsus Ligouri? Please - what a holy man. Surely you read up on him yourself.
Any ‘catholic’ taking offence to the most beautiful Marian devotion is infested
with protestant ideologies as other members of this forum have already established.

I myself have lost some old friends that were diametrically opposed to the faith,
you win some, you lose some. I’m not saying that Greg can’t be gently
re-directed - you be the judge of that. Pray for him to the above mentioned
Saints, for Greg, maybe a further miracle can be attributed to them.

All the best.