I’m sure Father knows more about the situation and cannon law than you and I combined.
And the SSPX insists that the Arch and Fab Four aren’t excommunicated, but there’s a papal document (you remember those, Eddie, promulgated by the Vicar of Christ on Earth) that says otherwise. May Fr. Superior is just tired, founding his new order and all.
It really doesn’t matter what Joe Blow or the Bishop of Nebraska himself goes off and does when we are discussing this issue. I do not care if he drinks his coffee with vodka wearing pink boxer shorts. (Sorry Bishop)
This is something that’s often overlooked. The devil will use what works to draw people away from the Church whether it be people’s love of Mary, love of the Mass, etc.
Thank you I guess this should be the end of this thread. (AGAIN)It is hard when you have loved ones in the SSPX church and they just won’t listen. You get all the “Lefebvre wasn’t REALLY excommunicated…” and the “Even if he WAS excommunicated…”
We all need to pray for one another. We’re all sinners who make mistakes and ignore God and seek our own selfish desires. God help us all!
papalencyclicals.net/Pius05/p5quopri.htm
Typically arrogant and ill-informed. We’ve only YOUR opinion that “they’ve made a very poor case” (apparently millions of Catholics disagree AND, incidentally, you’ve ceased to be Catholic at all if you think the mass is INVALID, per Trent itself) and “several popes have tried to make it work, but haven’t.” That’s YOUR opinion. What’s this about a non-doctrinal council? Basic CATHOLIC understanding is that Popes are independent of councils. Both Masses were promulgated by and ON the same authority, the authority given Peter and his successors, both the Tridentine and the Pauline. As for “pleasing to God”, once again, you’re on shaky theological grounds. Last I checked, the Almighty left these matters to the ones in whom He vested HIS authority to determine what was pleasing to Him or not. There is no empirical proof that either Rite, of itself, is pleasing to God. Was God pleased to hear the old Mass in Latin offered by some awful, cynical priests in Rome who intoned,“Bread thou art and bread thou shalt remain?” No one here would make any blanket indictment of the old Mass based on its abuse, but many here are willing to condemn the Pauline Rite because an abuse OF that rite. Any rite can be abused. So how do we know both rites are pleasing to God, that they DO what they are purported to do? We’ve only the authority of the Church Herself that they BOTH are. So unless you’ve heard a Voice from Heaven informing you of something God has decided not to clue the rest of Holy Mother Church in on, I wouldn’t presume to speak for the Ancient of Days, or we’ll be asking you,“By what authority do YOU do these things?” We KNOW by what authority the Church does what she does. Finally, you’ve obviously bought into more X File conspiracy theories, as the Protestant OBSERVORS were nothing more than that, OBSERVORS. We have to make a case? We only have to make a case to defend the Mass against ill-informed Catholics who attack their own Mother, the Church. Fortunately, since most of their attacks are based on conspiracy theories such as the above, it isn’t all that hard.
Uxor: The above only has the force of Church law until another Pope alters it. The Pope cannot bind his successors on matters of discipline (even before VII there were changes to the missal by the popes).
Good post…It is hard when you have loved ones in the SSPX church and they just won’t listen. You get all the “Lefebvre wasn’t REALLY excommunicated…” and the “Even if he WAS excommunicated…”
The fact of the matter is that when you attend an SSPX church you have decided to stop listening to outside influences, such as the pope, and start only listening to your own desires. This makes it very hard to reason with them on the matter.
Even desires for a good thing can be bad. Desire for a more reverant Mass is great! But going against the rules of the Catholic Church and her God-appointed earthly leader is bad.
We all need to pray for one another. We’re all sinners who make mistakes and ignore God and seek our own selfish desires. God help us all!
Perhaps these links will help you make your decision:
You have an opportunity here to show your devotion to God by not trying to take an easy way out. Every Sunday, Holy day of obligation and any other time you decide to go to Mass, you can offer up the sacrifice of the extra long drive to God. Struggling is never fun, but it can be useful! Think of the grateful souls in Purgatory you could help!