Someone said the Catholic Church was founded in the 3rd century and killed lots of people

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I turned comments off but he messaged me so I pressed “ignore messages” I don’t understand why people have to be all like “Catholic’s are going to hell you must be born again” why can’t they just accept our beliefs and move on
 
His post is incorrect in regard to History.

I second the suggestion to read Roman Catholicism, the book of Karl Keating, to learn facts and have a basic for apologetic.

But it is a hard thing to due because some “born Again” Protestants know very well how to respond.
 
As Clara Peller (RIP) said in the Wendy’s commercial: “Where’s the beef?” And as Cuba Gooding said in Jerry Maguire: “Show me the money!!”

He must prove his accusations, and he cannot as they are pure fantasy. He has not a single shred of evidence. He has 100 proof opinion, but that is all.

Ask him where Jesus taught that we should use any scripture. Ask him where Paul taught that we should run to scripture, including the bible - which did not exist until after your friend says that the Church was invented. Ask him where in the bible it says that we should use the bible alone, or at all! The Church teaches:
  1. Sacred Apostolic Tradition (which produced the bible!)
  2. Sacred Scripture - partial written record of the Apostolic Tradition.
  3. The Magisterium (teaching authority)
For that matter, ask him where the “Sacred Table of Contents” in the bible came from. Hint: It was after 313, so he’d better re-write the bible.

Jesus said that the gates of hell (netherworld) would not prevail against His Church. Paul wrote that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth.”

Like the Sadducees, he is greatly mislead.
 
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I think for Protestants of any stripe, the strongest evidence against this kind of Church-went-heretical story is the Protestant Reformation itself. There are mountains of evidence that the Protestant Reformation happened. Wars were even fought. And yet we are supposed to believe that when the “bad” Catholic Church began all sorts of heresies against the early Church, nobody even lifted a finger to protest these heresies. Even though by 300 AD the Church had spread far and wide, every member of the Church just silently agreed to go along. Not a single bishop spoke out. Not a single group of Christians broke away (which is to say, kept to the original faith). It is a preposterous theory, one that would make any true historian laugh and cry at the same time.

And I’ll leave you with this, by soon-to-be-saint John Henry Newman, from Lecture 4:

If you would have some direct downright proof that Catholicism is what Protestants make it to be, something which will come up to the mark, you must lie; else you will not get beyond feeble suspicions, which may be right, but may be wrong. Hence Protestants are obliged to cut their ninth commandment out of their Decalogue. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” must go, must disappear; their position requires the sacrifice. The substance, the force, the edge of their Tradition is slander…To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation. There are indeed able men who can make a striking case out of anything or nothing, as great painters give a meaning and a unity to the commonest bush, and pond, and paling and stile: genius can do without facts, as well as create them; but few possess the gift. Taking things as they are, and judging of them by the long run, one may securely say, that the anti-Catholic Tradition could not be kept alive, would die of exhaustion, without a continual supply of fable.

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/england/index.html
 
Rosie11 said:
I posted on my Facebook that the Catholic Church is the one true church of Jesus And was founded by Jesus himself and that’s what he was responding to
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Then he responded in kind. There’s nothing wrong with the act of responding. What you need to do now is back up your initial statement. Here’s what I’d say in return, though.

On the contrary, Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church. The proof is in Scripture:

First, Jesus Christ appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:

Matthew 16:17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.

Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The list remains the same, but now I can certainly eliminate all Protestant denominations.

Back to Matt 16:18, Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church.

So, even using just a few verses we can eliminate the Protestants. None of their denominations even come close to being in Scripture. But we can continue to find Catholic indicators throughout the Bible:

The Church which is infallible (1 Tim 3:15).
The Church which is united (Eph 4:5).
The doctrines of the Catholic Church which are distinctive from other churches:
Purgatory (1 Cor 3:15).
Eucharist (1 Cor 11:23-27).
Communion of Saints (Rom 12:12-20).
The Mass and the necessity to attend (Heb 10:25-31).
The Sacrament of Confession (Heb 13:17).
The Sacrament of Holy Orders (1 Tim 4:14).
The Sacrament of Baptism (Titus 3:5.)
Justification and salvation by faith and works (Rom 2:1-13).
 
I’m not responding to him anymore but I just want to know for myself he said Jesus death cleansed us of sins and there is no need for purgatory I said “so your saying you can sin as much as you want and go to heaven”

Then he said (I’ll paste what he said)

Sooo the word of god is wrong it doesn’t cleanse us of all sins the holy sprite most of been wrong and in Hebrews where it says he made one sacrifice for sins he died once,

I told him to read corinthians 3:10-15

And he said “Yeah I’ve read it nothing got to do with purgatory sooo the blood of Jesus doesn’t cleanse us of all sins then”
 
Rosie11 said:
I’m not responding to him anymore
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Ok.
but I just want to know for myself he said Jesus death cleansed us of sins and there is no need for purgatory I said “so your saying you can sin as much as you want and go to heaven”
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Then he said (I’ll paste what he said)

Sooo the word of god is wrong it doesn’t cleanse us of all sins the holy sprite most of been wrong and in Hebrews where it says he made one sacrifice for sins he died once,
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Sure, but Protestants refuse to participate in that Sacrifice. It is the Eucharist. See John 6:

John 6:54 King James Version (KJV)​

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
I told him to read corinthians 3:10-15

And he said “Yeah I’ve read it nothing got to do with purgatory sooo the blood of Jesus doesn’t cleanse us of all sins then”
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Again, in the Holy Eucharist. Where else do they get the Precious Blood?

See Heb 10:25-31. Notice that you will become an enemy to God, if you neglect coming together with the Church and celebrating the sacrifice of bread and wine, which is the Body and Blood of the Lord.

Hebrews 10:25-31 King James Version (KJV)​

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I hope that helps.
 
This is a lie originally put about by the butcher of Geneva, John Calvin in the 16th century and perpetuated by his followers ever since. It was Calvin’s follower Oliver Cromwell who was responsible for the deaths of 25% of the population of the British Isles through war, massacre and famine - a figure that makes Hitler and Pol Pot seem like amateurs. You shall know them by the fruit that they bear.
 
Rosie. There is a wealth of information on the catholic.com site and on this Forum. Do a search to educate yourself when you have questions that you need an answer to or just for the joy of learning.

If you prefer to listen and/or see, then I can highly recommend Called to Communion which can be found on ewtn.com, Youtube and Facebook. All major issues the protestants and everybody else have with the Catholic Church are answered in a about a months time, if not twice. Catholic Answers are on catholic.com , Youtube and maybe other places.
 
He’ll be in for the shock of his life when no historian confirms his tale of events- an even bigger one when he finds out that the “Roman Church” he accuses of suppressing Christianity were the ones being suppressed. The biggest shock will come when he finally realizes (like St. Paul) that he himself is persecuting Jesus.
 
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As a Protestant, I’d make a few points. It’s extremely difficult in trying to express any views on history with a person who espouses to Catholicism because the Catholic church itself considers itself to be infallible. It’s hard to even begin a discussion when one of the members in the discussion claims the institution they belong to isn’t capable of being in error.

Karl Keating is a well known Catholic who would agree on the above statement of infallibility. I’ve watched debates Keating has had and, he seems like a very nice guy but, I disagree with much of his philosophy and that of Catholicism.

The only thing I consider infallible is God and his Word. Nothing about man since the fall of Adam and Eve strikes me as incapable of error.

I don’t fully understand how you’re using the “born again” phrase. Are you saying some protestants who claim to be born again truly aren’t? Are you saying there’s no need to be born again? Sorry if I’m missing something obvious.
 
Rosie11 said:
Wrong , the Roman Catholic Church was established 313 ad ,
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I would ask them how they reconcile their statement with the fact that St. Ignatius of Antioch, in his Epistle (Letter) to the Smyrnaens, had written the following ca. 107-110 AD:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishopshall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church . It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
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Rosie11 said:
so after a few hundred years of killing millions of Christians then the Romans passed a law to tolerate Christianity and it then became the state religion Christians and Jewish converts flocked to The Roman Church as they were promised to be kept safe from persecution,
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Do they have a source for this claim?
 
Rosie11 said:
a few hundred years go by and the Roman Catholic Church wanted to do things not biblical like praying to Mary and giving glory to other people then God , People Then rejected the Roman Catholic Church

Catholic just meant universaly agreed , so jews and gentiles

who were Christian had a common ground and then in 313 ad Romans started to get involved and it became The Roman Catholic Church then many who were Jews and gentiles left the Roman Catholic Church
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Ask them if they understand what the communion of saints is.
  1. Scripture affirms that when we believe & abide in Christ, we never die even if our bodies physically die. (Jn 11:25-26)
  2. One day we’ll be raised with an immortal body (See 1 Cor. 15).
  3. We are being conformed to the image of Christ, & as members of His Body (the Church), & we live because He lives & because we are branches on the Vine. (Romans 8, John 15)
  4. Since we are being conformed to Christ’s image & partake of the Divine Nature, we share in His life, His ministry, His death, His resurrection, and one day, in His glory. That is all Scriptural. (2 Pe 1:4; Romans 8)
  5. Hebrews 12 shows that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses (In Greek, it translates to crowd of martyrs ), & we come to the holy mountain of God as well as His saints.
  6. In Revelation 5:8, the elders in heaven raise up before God the prayers of the saints as bowls of incense. So those in heaven intercede for us.
 
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In a very “simplistic” view, this information isn’t inaccurate, from a certain point of view…however it’s not factual.
 
Mishakel said:
because the Catholic church itself considers itself to be infallible. It’s hard to even begin a discussion when one of the members in the discussion claims the institution they belong to isn’t capable of being in error.
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Actually, this is not what the Church teaches and believes.

We believe that Jesus wasn’t kidding when He said the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. That when speaking on Faith and Morals there is a charism of infallibility. This does not apply to teachings about science or history or practices, those things can and do change as our knowledge or understanding increases.
 
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