Someone told me that Lent ends on Holy Saturday?

[NeedImprovement]

Where have you read the Triduum is a Liturgical Season unto itself ? Is there a link in this thread I missed ?

I asked a priest. His answer leads me to believe the Triduum falls during Lent. As far as the conflicting articles and such, I use the 40 days as a tiebreaker, which shows Saturday as the 40th day.

Give me a link, and I’ll check it out.

Hi At Trent.

Here’s a link ( plus excerpt) to the same document Phemie is quoting from. It’s a circular letter published by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments .

*I. Holy Week

1. During Holy Week, the Church celebrates the mysteries of salvation accomplished by Christ in the last days of his life on earth, beginning with his messianic entrance into Je¬rusalem.
   The Lenten season lasts until the Thursday of this week. The Easter Triduum begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper, is continued through Good Friday with the cel¬ebration of the passion of the Lord and Holy Saturday, to reach its summit in the Easter Vigil, and concludes with Vespers of Easter Sunday.*

liturgyoffice.org.uk/Calendar/Seasons/Documents/Paschale-Solemnitatis.pdf

Speaking of Phemie’s most recent post…

That’s not what the Church’s own document on how Easter is to be celebrated says.

Paschale Solemnitatis says this:
77…
1**. The meaning of the nocturnal character of the Easter Vigil**
78. “The entire celebration of the Easter Vigil takes place at night. It should not begin before nightfall; it should end before daybreak on Sunday”. (82) This rule is to be taken according to its strictest sense. Reprehensible are those abuses and practices which have crept in in many places in violation of this ruling, whereby the Easter Vigil is celebrated at the time of day that it is customary to celebrate anticipated Sunday Masses. (83)
Those reasons which have been advanced in some quarters for the anticipation of the Easter Vigil, such as lack of public order, are not put forward in connection with Christmas night, nor other gatherings of various kinds.

I can see how ,in any place but in the "land of the midnight sun", this makes perfect sense. First of all, when a precedent is set even if it is based on a legitimate need it opens the door for all sorts of abuses. For example, the sabbath was always considered to begin from sunset and last to the following sunset. This is part of the basis for our Saturday Sabbath Mass celebrations.

During the seventeen years I played music for a living (much of it in the downtown night clubs), our gigs often finished on Saturday night (actually early Sunday morning.) The bars closed at 3:00 am. Then, it might take another hour to 45 minutes to break down the gear and get it out to the vehicles and get paid. Sometimes when not touring, we played in clubs outside of town (up to a 2-3 hour drive away).

So it might be plausibly justifiable for one to attend the Saturday Sabbath Mass because they could end up getting home from work at 6:00 or 7:00 am Sunday morning. However , to be candid, I’m pretty sure that there were times I attended the Sabbath Masses more so that I could get more wasted at work later on, and not have to worry at all about getting up Sunday. That definitely isn’t the right reason to go to Mass [at any time of the day or week…:dts:] (see my username ).

If anyone is wondering, one of the legitimate needs cited for the Sabbath Mass, was to provide an opportunity for someone who was obliged to travel all day Sunday ; to give them the opportunity to fulfill their Sunday obligation.

 

[NeedImprovement]

So once a precedent is set, it can become difficult to curb abuses .

Concerning the Easter Vigil itself - the most important feast of the year, there is a celebration of light.

Light isn’t just a quality or term of endearment. It is a term for God Himself.

loyolapress.com/jesus-the-light-of-the-world.htm

"…We often think of Jesus as our light. John begins his Gospel with “the true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world” (John 1:9). In the Nicene Creed, we call Jesus “Light from Light.” Our greatest celebration, the Easter Vigil, opens by lighting a paschal candle from new fire and acclaiming the light of Christ.

A famous poem by Cardinal John Henry Newman begins, “Lead, kindly Light, amid the encircling gloom,/Lead thou me on.” We pray for enlightenment to Christ and his Spirit, who came to us in the form of fire on Pentecost. Following their lights, we look forward to eternal light in God’s kingdom where for all God’s holy ones, “Night will be no more, nor will they need light from lamp or sun, for the Lord God shall give them light” (Revelation 22:5). "

† Light of the world, illumine me! †

© 1997 Loyola Press

I wish all my fellow CAF members a very Blessed Triduum.

 

[At_Trent]

Hi At Trent.

Here’s a link ( plus excerpt) to the same document Phemie is quoting from. It’s a circular letter published by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments .

I. Holy Week

1. During Holy Week, the Church celebrates the mysteries of salvation accomplished by Christ in the last days of his life on earth, beginning with his messianic entrance into Je¬rusalem.
   The Lenten season lasts until the Thursday of this week. The Easter Triduum begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper, is continued through Good Friday with the cel¬ebration of the passion of the Lord and Holy Saturday, to reach its summit in the Easter Vigil, and concludes with Vespers of Easter Sunday.

liturgyoffice.org.uk/Calendar/Seasons/Documents/Paschale-Solemnitatis.pdf

Hi NeedImprovement, perhaps Ash Wednesday is the first of the forty days.
Fair enough, but where does it call the Triduum a season ? That’s what the fuss is about. tee and big ro say I’m wrong in not recognizing the triduum as a season, and have not offered anything to the contrary. I may be wrong, but until they show me why, I see nothing to support the contention that the Triduum is a season. I don’t understand how someone can determine something is wrong without ground to stand on.

God Bless,
off to Mass

 

[kage_ar]

My parish is having Easter Vigil Masses before sunset at 4 pm and 6 pm prior to their later Vigil with Rites of Christian Initiation.

This is needs to be brought to the attention of your Bishop.

 

[CMatt25]

This is needs to be brought to the attention of your Bishop.

Checked Easter Vigil times today for 5 parishes in my diocese.

3 parishes are adhering to only one later Easter Vigil beginning between 7 and 8 pm.

2 parishes are having 3 Vigils ea. @ 4 pm and in the 530/6 pm range in addition to their later one. So it’s not only my parish.

 

[kage_ar]

Checked Easter Vigil times today for 5 parishes in my diocese.

3 parishes are adhering to only one later Easter Vigil beginning between 7 and 8 pm.

2 parishes are having 3 Vigils ea. @ 4 pm and in the 530/6 pm range in addition to their later one. So it’s not only my parish.

Please make the Bishop aware.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Hi NeedImprovement, perhaps Ash Wednesday is the first of the forty days.
Fair enough, but where does it call the Triduum a season ? That’s what the fuss is about. tee and big ro say I’m wrong in not recognizing the triduum as a season, and have not offered anything to the contrary. I may be wrong, but until they show me why, I see nothing to support the contention that the Triduum is a season. I don’t understand how someone can determine something is wrong without ground to stand on.

God Bless,
off to Mass

Apparently, the Easter Triduum being referred to or understood as a “season” is indeed some people’s cup of tee. The linked article (w/ excerpt) goes on to say that the Triduum is one liturgy :

fdlc.org/Liturgy_Resources/Intro-Triduum-Lent.pdf

THE SEASONS : EASTER TRIDUUM , SEASON OF EASTER, AND SEASON OF LENT

From the *Introduction to the Lectionary for Masses with Children *
© 1992 United States Catholic Conference Inc.

“29. **THE TRIDUUM **. The Easter Triduum or three days ‘ begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday , reaches its high point in the Easter Vigil , and closes with evening prayer on Easter Sunday.’ The Sunday by Sunday celebration of our life in Christ finds its culmination in this annual celebration of Christ’s Passover from death to new life. These three days are best understood and celebrated as one liturgy which in its totality celebrates the Paschal Mystery. The liturgies of each day highlight the different facets of this mystery.”

At the very least I believe the Triduum could be referred to as a season, but in many ways it even surpasses our liturgical seasons the way we usually define them. Let’s just consider one thing – the only 48 hours (between the Lord’s Supper Holy Thursday and the Easter Vigil) in the Church year when the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not offered. Either there has to be a very serious mistake somewhere, or something so holy is happening that it gives us pause.

In the Triduum , it is said that :

“The Matins and Lauds of the Divine Office sung during the Triduum (Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday) are known as the Tenebrae services (“tenebrae” meaning “shadows”), which is basically a funeral service for Our Lord.”

catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/activities/view.cfm?id=1263

Certain events of Good Friday are described as nature mourning the death of its Creator, marked by the darkness over the land and the earthquake which occurred at our Lord’s death on the Cross. If nature itself mourns for its Lord, it seems only fitting that we should do the same.

 

[MikeDunphy]

Abbot Dom Prosper Guéranger wrote:

We have also shown how the Latin Church-which, even so late as the sixth century, kept only thirty-six fasting days during the six weeks of Lent (for the Church has never allowed Sundays to be kept as days of fast)-thought proper to add, later on, the last four days of Quinquagesima, in order that her Lent might contain exactly forty days of fast.

Similarly, Fr. William Saunders wrote:

In Rome and in the West, people fasted for six weeks, Monday through Saturday, thereby making Lent last for six weeks. Eventually, the practice prevailed of fasting for six days a week over the course of six weeks, and Ash Wednesday was instituted to bring the number of fast days before Easter to 40.

So following their accounts, if you do the math as At Trent did, you’ll conclude that Lent ends on Holy Saturday.

An old article by Jimmy Akin explains the discrepancy between the article cited earlier in this thread and what the Abbot and priest wrote:

Lent is the forty day period before Easter, excluding Sundays, which begins on Ash Wednesday and ends on Holy Saturday (the day before Easter Sunday). [This traditional enumeration does not precisely coincide with the calendar according to the liturgical reform. In order to give special prominence to the Sacred Triduum (Mass of the Lord’s Supper, Good Friday, Easter Vigil) the current calendar counts Lent as only from Ash Wednesday to Holy Thursday, up to the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. Even so, Lenten practices are properly maintained up to the Easter Vigil, excluding Sundays, as before.]

I do not see what is gained by declaring that Good Friday and Holy Saturday are not part of Lent. It obscures the symbolism and historical continuity of a 40 day Lent – for what?

 

[At_Trent]

Apparently, the Easter Triduum being referred to or understood as a “season” is indeed some people’s cup of tee. The linked article (w/ excerpt) goes on to say that the Triduum is one liturgy :

fdlc.org/Liturgy_Resources/Intro-Triduum-Lent.pdf

THE SEASONS : EASTER TRIDUUM , SEASON OF EASTER, AND SEASON OF LENT

From the *Introduction to the Lectionary for Masses with Children *
© 1992 United States Catholic Conference Inc.

“29. **THE TRIDUUM **. The Easter Triduum or three days ‘ begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday , reaches its high point in the Easter Vigil , and closes with evening prayer on Easter Sunday.’ The Sunday by Sunday celebration of our life in Christ finds its culmination in this annual celebration of Christ’s Passover from death to new life. These three days are best understood and celebrated as one liturgy which in its totality celebrates the Paschal Mystery. The liturgies of each day highlight the different facets of this mystery.”

At the very least I believe the Triduum could be referred to as a season, but in many ways it even surpasses our liturgical seasons the way we usually define them. Let’s just consider one thing – the only 48 hours (between the Lord’s Supper Holy Thursday and the Easter Vigil) in the Church year when the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not offered. Either there has to be a very serious mistake somewhere, or something so holy is happening that it gives us pause.

In the Triduum , it is said that :

“The Matins and Lauds of the Divine Office sung during the Triduum (Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday) are known as the Tenebrae services (“tenebrae” meaning “shadows”), which is basically a funeral service for Our Lord.”

catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/activities/view.cfm?id=1263

Certain events of Good Friday are described as nature mourning the death of its Creator, marked by the darkness over the land and the earthquake which occurred at our Lord’s death on the Cross. If nature itself mourns for its Lord, it seems only fitting that we should do the same.

Thank you for the links. The USCC does name the Triduum, I wish they explained why. It’s a description of the Triduum more or less.

The Catholic Culture article was a good read. Very good.

 

[At_Trent]

Abbot Dom Prosper Guéranger wrote:

We have also shown how the Latin Church-which, even so late as the sixth century, kept only thirty-six fasting days during the six weeks of Lent (for the Church has never allowed Sundays to be kept as days of fast)-thought proper to add, later on, the last four days of Quinquagesima, in order that her Lent might contain exactly forty days of fast.

Similarly, Fr. William Saunders wrote:

In Rome and in the West, people fasted for six weeks, Monday through Saturday, thereby making Lent last for six weeks. Eventually, the practice prevailed of fasting for six days a week over the course of six weeks, and Ash Wednesday was instituted to bring the number of fast days before Easter to 40.

So following their accounts, if you do the math as At Trent did, you’ll conclude that Lent ends on Holy Saturday.

An old article by Jimmy Akin explains the discrepancy between the article cited earlier in this thread and what the Abbot and priest wrote:

Lent is the forty day period before Easter, excluding Sundays, which begins on Ash Wednesday and ends on Holy Saturday (the day before Easter Sunday). [This traditional enumeration does not precisely coincide with the calendar according to the liturgical reform. In order to give special prominence to the Sacred Triduum (Mass of the Lord’s Supper, Good Friday, Easter Vigil) the current calendar counts Lent as only from Ash Wednesday to Holy Thursday, up to the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. Even so, Lenten practices are properly maintained up to the Easter Vigil, excluding Sundays, as before.]

I do not see what is gained by declaring that Good Friday and Holy Saturday are not part of Lent. It obscures the symbolism and historical continuity of a 40 day Lent – for what?

Thanks Mike, interesting and informative. I don’t understand either.

 

[Sir_Alec]

Back in the pre-Vatican II era, Lent ended at 12 noon on Holy Saturday because this was when the Easter Vigil was held. In 1955, the Easter Vigil was reformed and held in the evening so Lent ended around sunset. I know some oldsters who still say Lent ends at 12 noon on Holy Saturday because that was what they were taught. Since it’s no longer required to fast or abstain on Holy Saturday, I think the whole thing is moot anyway(though I prefer to do things the old way).

 

[Schmonka]

“The Triduum are the last three days of Lent.” That’s the answer from a priest I asked today. I asked him no further questions. Obviously, Easter begins with the Vigil.

HURRAH for your priest!! What seems to me to be going on is that the seminaries have stopped teaching what “40 days of lent” really means. The priest of my RCIA class was a few years out of seminary, and said, “No matter how you count it, it doesn’t come to forty.” This year I heard a bishop say on the radio, on the Tuesday before Easter, that his lent had already ended. Later one of the hosts on that radio station said something about lent not really having 40 days.

Dom Guaranger, on the other hand, said that Ash Wednesday was established so that lent would have truly forty days. [If you don’t know who Dom Gueranger is, look him up–he wrote the beautiful volumes titled “The Liturgical Year.” St. Therese the Little Flower said in her autobiography that it was what her father read to their family.] Since Dom Gueranger went to seminary in the 1800’s, I’m putting my money on weakened, liberalized curriculum in our modern seminaries.

Let’s do the math:
Ash Wednesday=day 1. Thurs=day 2. Fri=3. Sat=4.
Sunday=feast day, not part of the lenten 40.
M= 5, T= 6, W= 7, Th= 8, F= 9, Sa=10, Su=FD.
M=11, T=12, W=13, Th=14, F=15, Sa=16, Su=FD.
M=17, T=18, W=19, Th=20, F=21, Sa=22, Su=FD.
M=23, T=24, W=25, Th=26, F=27, Sa=28, Su=FD.
M=29, T=30, W=31, Th=32, F=33, Sa=34, Su=FD.
M=35, T=36, W=37, Th=38, F=39, Sa=40.
THEN GLORIOUS EASTER!!!

 

[tee_eff_em]

Let’s do the math:

Your math, while correct in general, is faulty in particular. If we apply your count to the particular season just past:

Ash Wednesday=day 1. Thurs=day 2. Fri=3. Sat=4.
Sunday=feast day, not part of the lenten 40.
M= 5, T= 6, W= 7, Th= 8, F= 9, Sa=10, Su=FD.
M=11, T=12, W=13, Th=14, F=15, Sa=16, Su=FD.
M=17, T=18, W=19, Th=20, F=21, Sa=22, Su=FD.
M=23, T=24, W=25, Th=26, -]

F=27

/-], Sa=28, Su=FD.
M=29, T=30, W=31, -]

Th=32

/-], F=33, Sa=34, Su=FD.
M=35, T=36, W=37, Th=38, F=39, Sa=40.
THEN GLORIOUS EASTER!!!

We must eliminate your day 27, which was 19 March, the Solemnity of St Joseph, husband of the BVM (feast day, not part of the lenten 40); and your day 32, which was 25 March, the Solemnity of the Annunciation of the Lord (feast day, not part of the lenten 40). Particular regions would need eliminate other days as well, eg a parish or other area under the patronage of St Patrick (17 March, day 25 this year) and which would locally celebrate that date as a Solemnity.

The Solemnity of the Annunciation may fall outside of Lent (either naturally or by translation), but the Solemnity of St Joseph naturally necessarily falls within Lent. Your math just does not add up. :nope:

tee
armchair liturgical calendar nerd