Something Bad That Jesus Did?

[NotWorthy]

By suffering the consequences of having broken the Law. When wichedness in Israel has become really a problem, the People is dispersed among the nations and scattered over to foreign lands, so that their uncleanness is purged. That’s in Ezekiel 22;15.

Ben:

Wow. You guys have had to go through a lot of purging. Jerusalem was destroyed over 1900 years ago. Or maybe that was God’s Judgment and you were supposed to join the Catholic Church like all your other Jewish Brothers.

 

[NotWorthy]

A sin of a man does not justify the sin of another.We are talking about Jesus whom you consider perfect. Therefore, don’t try to justify his shortcomings by pointing to the shortcomings of another. Answer my question with an answer and not by accusing another.

Ben:

But questions sometimes reveal the idiocy of the original question. I thought the analogy was rather appropriate, for Catholics teach that Jesus is the prophet that Moses talked about in Deuteronomy 18, so the analogy is spot-on.

So, I repeat. Did God do bad things in Exodus? I don’t think so. But, by your mis-logic, He must have.

 

[NotWorthy]

Believe me, you would not have to deal with Ben Masada if you didn’t try to temper with Judaism by introducing strange Hellenistic stuff. Why don’t I have an issue with Islam, Hinduism, or Budhism or other religions? They leave Judaism alone. If Paul had remained in the Greek Olympian Pantheon, you
would not even know if Ben Masada existed.

Ben:

No. Paul did only what Christ had instructed him and the Holy Spirit had guided him to do. You guys had a problem with it 1950 years ago. That’s why you beat him repeatedly and left him for dead at least once.

Your people must anti-Paulites! .

 

[Ben_Masada]

But questions sometimes reveal the idiocy of the original question. I thought the analogy was rather appropriate, for Catholics teach that Jesus is the prophet that Moses talked about in Deuteronomy 18, so the analogy is spot-on.

So, I repeat. Did God do bad things in Exodus? I don’t think so. But, by your mis-logic, He must have.

What do Catholics know of Torah, for Heaven’s sake! Moses was talking about Joshua. Why complicate the truth when it is so simple!

But let’s assume that he was talking about Jesus. Read verse 19. “If any man will not listen to my words which he speaks in my name, I myself will make him answer for it.”

Gosh! Christians will have a lot to answer for it! Jesus came in the name of God and said loud and clear: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law!” (Mat. 5:17)

Christians, starting with Paul, came and said that Jesus was not telling the truth, because the Law was abolished in the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Imagine how much you guys are going to answer for it.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

No. Paul did only what Christ had instructed him and the Holy Spirit had guided him to do. You guys had a problem with it 1950 years ago. That’s why you beat him repeatedly and left him for dead at least once.

Your people must anti-Paulites! .

NotWorthy, Paul should be grateful to the Nazarenes who saved his life from being taken away after that havoc he caused in Jerusalem preaching apostasy.

The local Jews were acting within rights given them by Torah. Take a look at what is written in Deuteronomy 13:2-6. The main subject is: If someone comes trying to persuade you to follow other than the God you have known, him you must pot to death.

The Nazarenes prevented that death and had to pay for a change in their condition in Jerusalem, when Tertulus, the Lawyer the priest Ananias hired to condemn Paul, connected Paul as a ringleader of the Sect of the Nazarenes, when in fact, it was not true. (Acts 24:1-9)

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Wow. You guys have had to go through a lot of purging. Jerusalem was destroyed over 1900 years ago. Or maybe that was God’s Judgment and you were supposed to join the Catholic Church like all your other Jewish Brothers.

Yes, NotWorthy, somehow, that was God’s judgment. Interesting to notice, when the Jews were in exile in Babylon, God’s judgment was that only after 70 years they would return to the Land of Israel.

When Cyrus conquered Babylon, he got so exited by the victory that he proclaimed that the Jews could return and rebuild the Temple. However, it didn’t happen because the Jews had only 44 years of exile. They had to remain for the next 26 years to complete the time determined by God’s judgment. (Dan. 9:2, 24)

This time, three attempts were made for the return of the Jews. The first was at the time of the Roman Emperor Julian, the one you guys call Apostate. He even offered help to rebuild the Temple.

The second time was by Napoleon Bonapart, which didn’t go beyond permitting the Jews to do so.

The third time was about 1850 when Herzl under the banner of Zionism urged with the Jews to get together for that purpose.

The time was not then, neither then, nor then. The People had to bleed first with a catastrophic Holocaust in order to be reduced to a remnant, according to Isaiah 37:31,32.

When the time was due, the Almighty allowed us to return. And in this return, Ben Masada took part, as one of the remnant. Baruch HaShem!

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Wow!!! That’s about the third time you’ve hinted (or outright accused) that I’m anti-semite. It’s GOTTA be true, now!!! Or is it just the Democrats (and our beloved media) that think if you repeat a lie enough, it must be true?

I am not preaching Replacement Theology. But Israel has been reconstituted in the New Covenant, Ben.

Sorry you missed the memo.

There is nothing you can do to free yourself from Replacement Theology as long as you defend it.

Ben:

 

[NotWorthy]

What do Catholics know of Torah, for Heaven’s sake! Moses was talking about Joshua. Why complicate the truth when it is so simple! Hmm, this was never said to be completed. It seems God says, “I WILL raise up from among them…”, not “I HAVE raised up from among them…”.

I don’t think its Joshua, my brother.

But let’s assume that he was talking about Jesus. Read verse 19. “If any man will not listen to my words which he speaks in my name, I myself will make him answer for it.”

Gosh! Christians will have a lot to answer for it! Jesus came in the name of God and said loud and clear: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law!” (Mat. 5:17)

Christians, starting with Paul, came and said that Jesus was not telling the truth, because the Law was abolished in the cross. (Ephe. 2:15) Imagine how much you guys are going to answer for it.

Ben:

Christ didn’t abolish it. He consummated it!

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy, Paul should be grateful to the Nazarenes who saved his life from being taken away after that havoc he caused in Jerusalem preaching apostasy.

The local Jews were acting within rights given them by Torah. Take a look at what is written in Deuteronomy 13:2-6. The main subject is: If someone comes trying to persuade you to follow other than the God you have known, him you must pot to death. These were rights “given to them”? I thought the Romans would have look not too kindly on the slaying of a Roman citizen, whether it be in a synagogue or not. I don’t think the Jews had the right to “pot to death” this upstart Paul.

The Nazarenes prevented that death and had to pay for a change in their condition in Jerusalem, when Tertulus, the Lawyer the priest Ananias hired to condemn Paul, connected Paul as a ringleader of the Sect of the Nazarenes, when in fact, it was not true. (Acts 24:1-9)

Ben:

Hmm… We need to go through this imagined time-line again of these two sects. Christians and Nazarenes. Because at this point they seem to be separate in your mind. But I thought at Acts 15, they were already together, because James made an edict that affected both “sects”.

 

[NotWorthy]

There is nothing you can do to free yourself from Replacement Theology as long as you defend it.

Ben:

Let me ask you, who was God talking about in Ezekiel and Jeremiah? I will save my sheep so that they may no longer be despoiled, and I will judge between one sheep and another. 23 I will appoint one shepherd over them to pasture them, my servant David; he shall pasture them and be their shepherd**.**

and 2*** Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds who shepherd my people: You have scattered my sheep and driven them away. You have not cared for them, but I will take care to punish your evil deeds. 3 I myself will gather the remnant of my flock from all the lands to which I have driven them and bring them back to their meadow; there they shall increase and multiply. 4I will appoint shepherds for them who will shepherd them** so that they need no longer fear and tremble; and none shall be missing, says the LORD*.

I think those “appointed shepherds” is the Catholic Church!

 

[NotWorthy]

What do Catholics know of Torah, for Heaven’s sake! Moses was talking about Joshua. Why complicate the truth when it is so simple!

Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but it seems that the 1st century Jews were just as ignorant as I am. Because when Peter made this connection in Acts 3:23, it seems that the Jews didn’t bite on it. Instead “their numbers (the Christians) swelled to 5000.” (Acts 4:4).

 

[cheeto1]

Which “letters of the law” have come
true, or been fulfilled? All of them? None of them? Or if some,
then which ones?

You pointed out Ephesians 2:15 to another poster, saying that Jesus abolished the law through His cross. We were shown
what punishment was deserved for breaking any of these laws.
But now there is a new law, and it is impossible to keep. It is
this: “love one another as I have loved you”. It is harder to follow
than all the Jewish laws all put together, and they have already
proved impossible. Why, why does He command us to do the
impossible? Because His power will be shown. We will do it,
and we will know that it is by His power, not ours.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but it seems that the 1st century Jews were just as ignorant as I am. Because when Peter made this connection in Acts 3:23, it seems that the Jews didn’t bite on it. Instead “their numbers (the Christians) swelled to 5000.” (Acts 4:4).

If those 5000 were Christians, congratulations! You have just found another contradiction in the NT, because about 20 years later when Paul started preaching about Jesus as Christ, it was then that people started being called Christians. Read Acts 11:26.

Ben:

 

[zach_dunn]

If those 5000 were Christians, congratulations! You have just found another contradiction in the NT, because about 20 years later when Paul started preaching about Jesus as Christ, it was then that people started being called Christians. Read Acts 11:26.

Ben:

Just because they weren’t called Christians yet doesn’t mean that they weren’t Christians. The people in Acts 4:4 heard the word of Jesus about the resurrection of the dead (Acts 4:2) which made them convert. Resurrection of the dead is Christian doctrine. It’s pretty safe to say those people were Christians.

Pax,
Zach

 

[Ben_Masada]

Let me ask you, who was God talking about in Ezekiel and Jeremiah? I will save my sheep so that they may no longer be despoiled, and I will judge between one sheep and another. 23 I will appoint one shepherd over them to pasture them, my servant David; he shall pasture them and be their shepherd**.**

and 2*** Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds who shepherd my people: You have scattered my sheep and driven them away. You have not cared for them, but I will take care to punish your evil deeds. 3 I myself will gather the remnant of my flock from all the lands to which I have driven them and bring them back to their meadow; there they shall increase and multiply. 4I will appoint shepherds for them who will shepherd them*** so that they need no longer fear and tremble; and none shall be missing, says the LORD.

I think those “appointed shepherds” is the Catholic Church!

God is talking about His sheep the Jewish People, who by that time were exiled in Babylon. That’s a reference to the religious leaders of prior to the exile who failed in their sherpherding of God’s sheep, which ended up being exiled.

This time, as the remnant of them was returning to the Land of Israel, God Himself would tend His flock. It means the establishment of the New Covenant with the House of Israel and Judah as one, when the Law, instead of being written in tables of stone, it would be written in the heart. That is, obedience motivated by one’s freewill and not compulsion. (Jer. 31:33; Ezek. 34:11-13)

You have all the right in the world to think the way you please, but
Jewish prophecies must be interpreted by Jewish tools and not by strange tools from another religion.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Just because they weren’t called Christians yet doesn’t mean that they weren’t Christians. The people in Acts 4:4 heard the word of Jesus about the resurrection of the dead (Acts 4:2) which made them convert. Resurrection of the dead is Christian doctrine. It’s pretty safe to say those people were Christians.

Pax,
Zach

I agree with you 101 percent that resurrection of the dead is Christian doctrine. Indeed, it has nothing to do with Judaism, because there must be no contradiction in the Tanach, which is very clear that the dead will never return. (Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; II Sam. 12:23; Psalm 88:6; 146:4; Prov. 2:19; Ezek. 26:20)

But Christians did not start then. Don’t forget that this report was given 50+ years after the alleged facts.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

These were rights “given to them”? I thought the Romans would have look not too kindly on the slaying of a Roman citizen, whether it be in a synagogue or not. I don’t think the Jews had the right to “pot to death” this upstart Paul.

I am sorry for the “pot to death” it was a lapse of the finger. Make it put to death. Yes, that’s a right granted them by Torah. It’s true that if the Romans found out that Paul was indeed a Roman Citizen, many Jews would end up on the cross.

Hmm… We need to go through this imagined time-line again of these two sects. Christians and Nazarenes. Because at this point they seem to be separate in your mind. But I thought at Acts 15, they were already together, because James made an edict that affected both “sects”.

They were always apart from each other. They were never together. What happened in Acts 15, we have been through it already. It was only a section of the Nazarene committee that Paul took part because he had agreed to come up to Jerusalem in order to let the Apostles know once and for all that the Diaspora was already in Paul’s hands, and that the “Judaisers” from Judea should wake up from their dream to restore the Synagogues lost to Paul.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hmm, this was never said to be completed. It seems God says, “I WILL raise up from among them…”, not “I HAVE raised up from among them…”.

Moses was still living, wasn’t he? Joshua hadn’t been nominated yet, had he? So, it’s perfectly correct to use the verb in the future tense. “I will raise.”

I don’t think its Joshua, my brother.

I told you already. You have all the right in the world to think what you please. But in matters of Jewish things, I think it’s safer to let me do the thought.

Christ didn’t abolish it. He consummated it!

What’s the difference? Try Matthew 5:17 again.

Ben:

 

[NotWorthy]

If those 5000 were Christians, congratulations! You have just found another contradiction in the NT, because about 20 years later when Paul started preaching about Jesus as Christ, it was then that people started being called Christians. Read Acts 11:26.

Ben:

No, you know exactly what I’m talking about. What we call Christians is the Church started by the Twelve and by Paul. We teach that this is One Church… well, actually One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

These 5000 people are what we today call the Christian Church. There is no Nazorene and Christian separation.

With that said, we can get back to the point. Evidently your 1st century brother Jews must have been as ignorant as I am now, for they never said that Joshua was the “Prophet like Moses”.

And the more I think of it, all of Israel was still waiting for that “Prophet like Moses…”. None of them called him Joshua. They said this prophet would be the anticipated Messiah.

 

[cheeto1]

resurrection of the dead is Christian doctrine. Indeed, it has nothing to do with Judaism

Were not the Sadducees Jews? MT 22:23-32