Something Bad That Jesus Did?

[CHRISTINE77]

What you say about the Pharisees is absolutely innaccurate. Jesus was of the same line of thought. The Apostles even had Pharisees in the Nazarene Committee. The Sect of the Nazarenes was the Jewish sect originated with Jesus. And they would make converts even from among the Pharisees. (Acts 15:5)
All the problems against the Pharisees was built as a result of a tremendous grudge Paul had against them for having never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.

Ben:

What was his connection with John the Baptist, (who was an Essene) in your mind?

What 20 percent do you think is true? Do you think Jesus could heal people of their afflictions?

 

[theistgal]

Just out of curiosity, Ben, did you get any better answers to your question here than you did with the Seventh Day Adventists, where you posted this exact same thread?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Just out of curiosity, Ben, did you get any better answers to your question here than you did with the Seventh Day Adventists, where you posted this exact same thread?

Wow are you a detective! Looks like he got lot MORE response here.

 

[PJM]

PJM;4831540:

No, that’s not what I thought. I thought you guys could enjoy Literature in a good elaborated prose. What’s the difference between what I elaborated and what it’s written? I elaborated on evidences. Everything is down on the paper. I just made it a little tastier to the tongue buds of people’s minds. Flat food without salt awakes no appetite. In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said, “You are the salt of the earth.” That’s in Matthew 5:13. Therefore, I am only restoring the flavor to your flat food.

Ben:

Ben my friend, you do have a point. There isn’t much difference…

The only difference was THE truth

God bless you… keep on fishin:thumbsup:

 

[cheeto1]

The Sect of the Nazarenes was the Jewish sect originated with Jesus.

Hmm… but this says that the Nazarenes believed in the
virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect

Does it have anything to do with the Nazarites of the Old
Testament?

I always thought Jesus was called a Nazarene because He came
from Nazareth.

And now this: Acts 24:5 (speaking about Paul!) “He is a ringleader of the sect of Nazoreans”.

Do you think maybe that’s just what they called followers of
Jesus back then, even though I heard they called themselves
“the way”?

Does it matter what followers of Jesus called themselves,
or what others called them?

 

[cheeto1]

Nazarenes believed in the
virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect

For some reason, the link doesn’t seem to be working,
but to find it, I googled “sect of the nazarenes”, and it
does come up.

 

[NotWorthy]

Hmm… but this says that the Nazarenes believed in the
virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect)

Does it have anything to do with the Nazarites of the Old
Testament?

It has nothing to do with the Nazarites, who made a vow and performed several disciplines while acting on the vow. Not cutting their hair, not touching wine, staying away from anything dead.

John the Baptist was probably a life-long Nazarite.
Samson was a Nazarite. That’s one of the reasons he lost his strength when his hair was cut, for it violated his vow. His strength flowed from God, and was a signal of God’s acceptance of his Nazarite vow, if I remember correctly.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

cheeto1;4835880:

Nazarenes believed in the
virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus
[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect)

)

For some reason, the link doesn’t seem to be working,
but to find it, I googled “sect of the nazarenes”, and it
does come up.

I found the link and it is very interesting.

I don’t think Jesus was a Nazirite, but John the Baptist definitely was. But somehow the two words are connected.

According to this article, Nazarenes were those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, but still followed the Jewish ways and laws. So Ben may have a point.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I found the link and it is very interesting.

I don’t think Jesus was a Nazirite, but John the Baptist definitely was. But somehow the two words are connected.

According to this article, Nazarenes were those who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, but still followed the Jewish ways and laws. So Ben may have a point.

But the difference is that the Nazarenes (as they called themselves) were not recognized by the Jews as a valid sect, way before Paul showed up on the scene. In fact Paul as a youth would help in rounding up Nazarenes for sending up on charges to the sanhedrin, or stoning to death, as in the case of St. Stephen. The Nazarenes were extremely fearful of Paul as his zeal in enforcing the laws of 2nd Temple Judaism were notorious.

This is exactly contrary to Ben’s bald assertion that Paul is the one that exploded the tranquility of the Nazarene sect with Judaism with his new teachings by saying that Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus was the Son of God, which Ben imagines never entered the thoughts of the Nazarenes. Ben also says the Bible is full of interpolations and later additions which make quoting the Scripture passages to disprove his points useless.

Only Ben is allowed to quote Scriptures to prove his point, everyone else is using defiled, interpolated and corrupted passages.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

But the difference is that the Nazarenes (as they called themselves) were not recognized by the Jews as a valid sect, way before Paul showed up on the scene. In fact Paul as a youth would help in rounding up Nazarenes for sending up on charges to the sanhedrin, or stoning to death, as in the case of St. Stephen. The Nazarenes were extremely fearful of Paul as his zeal in enforcing the laws of 2nd Temple Judaism were notorious.

This is exactly contrary to Ben’s bald assertion that Paul is the one that exploded the tranquility of the Nazarene sect with Judaism with his new teachings by saying that Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus was the Son of God, which Ben imagines never entered the thoughts of the Nazarenes. Ben also says the Bible is full of interpolations and later additions which make quoting the Scripture passages to disprove his points useless.

Only Ben is allowed to quote Scriptures to prove his point, everyone else is using defiled, interpolated and corrupted passages.

Very interesting!

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hmm… but this says that the Nazarenes believed in the
virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazarene_(sect

It says wrong Cheeto. Leave the wikipedia and show me in your NT itself that the Nazarenes believed in the virgin birth or divinity of Jesus. If they did they would have preached about it in Jerusalem, where they had their headquarters. And they didn’t because they were getting along with the regular Jews.

Does it have anything to do with the Nazarites of the Old
Testament?

No, it does not. To be a Nazarite was a vow. To be a Nazarene was to be a member of the Sect of the Nazarenes, a Jewish sect organized by the Apostles in the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

I always thought Jesus was called a Nazarene because He came from Nazareth.

And you thought right because that’s what it is.

And now this: Acts 24:5 (speaking about Paul!) “He is a ringleader of the sect of Nazoreans”.

Paul was no ringleader of the Sect of the Nazarenes. The Lawyer Ananias brought to condemn Paul before Felix knew that Paul had tried to join the Sect because of his old friend Barnabas, and during the first 15 days that he was allowed on a trial basis, he provoked such a havoc in Jerusalem preaching
that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had resurrected that the local Jews were on an uproar to kill him for preaching heresy in Jerusalem. That’s what Paul did to the Nazarenes: Almost spoiled their relationship with mainstream Judaism.

Do you think maybe that’s just what they called followers of
Jesus back then, even though I heard they called themselves
“the way”?

The term “the Way” was a term to identify the Sect of the Nazarenes. When Paul got letters from Jerusalem to arrest the disciples in Damascus, it says in there that he was after the followers of the Way. But on the Road to Damascus he changed his mind and decided to join; perhaps to fight the Sect
from within. Because the more he Physically persecuted the Nazarenes, the more they would grow.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;4832998:

Ben my friend, you do have a point. There isn’t much difference…

The only difference was THE truth

God bless you… keep on fishin:thumbsup:

PJM, you startled me with your short answer. Are you being sarchastic or you do mean? And what about this
“The only difference was the truth.” What do you mean? If this was to provoke me, let’s start by a definition. What is the Truth?
I’ll tell you mine after you share with me yours.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Just out of curiosity, Ben, did you get any better answers to your question here than you did with the Seventh Day Adventists, where you posted this exact same thread?

Not really. Their answers make even less sense
to me.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

What was his connection with John the Baptist, (who was an Essene) in your mind?

They were cousins; have you forgotten already?

What 20 percent do you think is true?

Everything that is in tune with his Faith, which was Judaism.

Do you think Jesus could heal people of their afflictions?

It’s possible, why not? There are records of others who did at his time and even today. But I put neither faith nor trust in miraculous cures. My trust is in knowledge and study of the Scriptures. The Almighty has inspired many among us to be Medical Doctors to take care of that.

Ben:

 

[Ben_Masada]

PJM;4831540:

May God Introduce Truth in our minds.

Maybe Ben is not entirely wrong. Maybe you only need to know what is to be called by the name dog or puppy in the Middle East. Different culture have different mean for the same names.

The Understand of God be with us.

Are you kidding? What is the difference between
dogs and dogs?

Ben:

 

[NotWorthy]

It says wrong Cheeto. Leave the wikipedia and show me in your NT itself that the Nazarenes believed in the virgin birth or divinity of Jesus. If they did they would have preached about it in Jerusalem, where they had their headquarters. And they didn’t because they were getting along with the regular Jews.

I don’t know. Peter, by your acclamation, was a “Nazarene”. He preached things that were, in your words, anti-Jewish, and yet he got along with the Jews.

Your point is point-less.

 

[NotWorthy]

The term “the Way” was a term to identify the Sect of the Nazarenes. When Paul got letters from Jerusalem to arrest the disciples in Damascus, it says in there that he was after the followers of the Way. But on the Road to Damascus he changed his mind and decided to join; perhaps to fight the Sect
from within. Because the more he Physically persecuted the Nazarenes, the more they would grow.

Ben:

This was certainly an anti-Roman way of thinking. The Romans loved to “pluck the heads” of a criminal movement in the hopes of putting the rest in line. The Jews tried to do this with the upstart rabbi from Nazareth, too.

 

[cheeto1]

It says wrong Cheeto. Leave the wikipedia and show me in your NT itself that the Nazarenes believed in the virgin birth or divinity of Jesus.

Wouldn’t it be easier for you to just show me in the NT or even
the OT for that matter, what are the beliefs of the Nazarenes?
If not, where can I go for this information?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Wouldn’t it be easier for you to just show me in the NT or even
the OT for that matter, what are the beliefs of the Nazarenes?
If not, where can I go for this information?

I’m with you Cheeto1! I’d like to see some ancient documentation too.

I DO know that during the unhappy reign of Julian the Apostate when Paganism was re-institutionalized and a doomed project to rebuild the Jewish temple was started, contrary to God’s will, Christians were referred to as Nazarenes as a reproach. Maybe that is where Ben is pulling this word.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Wouldn’t it be easier for you to just show me in the NT or even
the OT for that matter, what are the beliefs of the Nazarenes?
If not, where can I go for this information?

Okay Cheeto, I am sorry to seem to be forcing you to paint yourself into a corner. But the only way to make it easier on you is by saying that the beliefs of the Nazarenes were derived from the teachings of Jesus, whose main theme was a revival of Torah observance with the aim to restore Torah as the constitution for the whole nation.

The core of his programe of revival is recorded in Matthew 5:17-19.What he came for with regards to the Torah and the Prophets, he warned that it should be a must for all Jews without any exception. A real awakening was in action in his mind. The only problem with Jesus is that he was too nationalistic and aversed to
proselytism, when the Prophet Isaiah had long ago defined the role of Israel in the world as light unto the nations.

Ben: