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Ben_Masada
Guest
You couldn’t mean that! You must rephrase your sentence as to ask “Who did the Apostles say Jesus was,” Because neither is any longer. Jesus and his Apostles are long gone.
But to answer your question who the Apostles said Jesus was, they never thought he was the Messiah, son of God or that he had resurrected. Jesus was a Rabbi and wise Teacher.
Ben:
V
Valmabar
Guest
May God Teach us How To Better Share our knowledge.
To Ambrose SJ
I think I perfectly understand the teaching from the Church about the One Triune God my brother. But you need to understand that, been Three in One, the Son should be perfectly connected to the remaining Two. If They are not perfectly connected then is something wrong on the out of Gospel’s theory. So, the son should be the Three at the same time. The Father Should be Three in One. The Same for the Holly Ghost. If you separate Them, They will be not the same Person. But, it is only philosophical.
To Ben Masada.
My friend Ben. I agree with you in all you have saying that Jesus did something bad. Not because he really did. It I am not sure. The Gospels were wrote not by him. It were not inspired by him but based on his teachings, so we both know that is many insertions that belong not to him. The problem is that, everything that you said until now does not compare to what the OT said God did to Job. I know, the book is only a parable and not a true history. The great thing that I read in the Book of Job is that, it says God talkes directly to Satan. These is the exactly conception that I have from God. Does not matter if is Satan, you have to talk to your enemies. But what they did to Job and the people around him is not so good.
To Unknown
I am sorry, I lost the thread in what someone asked to who Jesus gave the Key of Heaven. And it is the Great Revelation that the Knowledge Concerning God gave me. You always thought about the words Key of Heaven been a human instrument. Heaven have not key like that. The Saints in Presence of God have more things to do than just shut and open imaginairy doors. Now you know the automatic doors, you can understand the useless of that understanding.
Now I understand that Jesus gave me the Key when I was just a little kid, five year or so, when I cried the true tear of compassion before him in the cross. And I expended about 40 years more for to understand it.
The Key to Heaven is what I share with you now. Although the teachings from the Church had said that the Key is passed from pope to pope, in these line someone broke the covenant by his sins. Is not that I am a saint. I am nobody for the human eyes. But God Have Done for me Wonders. (Brother Ambrose SJ, and all of you, take a look at the 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. Maybe you will understand it better with that orientation, although, Paul did not know what he was talking about).
I will use a parable for explain what came to me. Imagine if Osama Bin Laden in a happen realize that what he did is very wrong to the Eyes of God. Then, if he converted to the Judaism, at the ancient times, he would go to the Temple and offer sacrifices and do whatsoever was needed to do for to be saved. I am sorry Ben, I don’t know what you need to do for get the Grace of God in our days in Judaism teachings. So, if you please, imagine he would do everything right. I think, if he do this, the Jews would say he will be saved.
In the case of Catholics, imagine if he repent, convert, be Baptized, ask for forgiveness, submit himself to all the Church’s requirements, and even, handle himself to the International Justice for be judged by man and God. If he confess and practice for the rest of his days on Earth, you should say that, he will be saved.
For the Knowledge Concerning God he would be not required to convert to any other religion. He must have to repent and do whatsoever he have to do as Muslim. He need also learn something about the others religions for not have more any prejudice against others without himself.
But the great requirement that he must fulfill is to try to remove the consequence of his sins. These is the real Key to Heaven. Is not say, blood of Jesus have the power and everything else is forgoten. If you really is a converted one, you need to reject your sins and the sins of your ancestors and try to remove out the consequences of it. You need sin not more also.
Look at the world we have now. Why it is so dangerous, so conflicting, so miserable? It is because we converted partially to the Ways of God. We said, no more to slavery, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of it. We say, no more poverty, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of it. We unanimous say, no more polution, still, we keep poluting the world. We Cry for justice, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of the past unjustices. If we do like that, is the same as we say, OK I accept what bad were done before, and we turn up to be part of it.
The goal in to remove the consequences of the sins and sin not more is to make a New World, the most possible like Heaven. I know, we will never to be equal Heaven. But the more we make more will understand the Nature of God. And so, the Grace of God will do what will be impossible to us.
I also know that, Osama Bin Laden will be not capable of to remove all the consequences of his sins. The same is true to George W. Bush. But, we as brothers and children of God, need to help them to archieve it. We also are incapable of do the same to the consequences of ourselves sins. But we are not alone. We need to get together for the sake of the Salvation of all. If we do not even try we are doomed. If we try, the Grace of God Will Be With us for Do What Is Impossible to us.
Although I said before that are more than 80% of wrong teachings in the Bible, now I can say to you, I accept 100% of the verses in the Bible, from the first to the last. I accept it as an exercise for to prepare myself for our Salvation but not as an inconditional Truth.
Now I have to go for a while. Look at the Forum, Christ Died Once For All and you will see more that we learn from the Knowledge Concerning God.
May the Understanding that Come From God Be Upon us.
To Ambrose SJ
I think I perfectly understand the teaching from the Church about the One Triune God my brother. But you need to understand that, been Three in One, the Son should be perfectly connected to the remaining Two. If They are not perfectly connected then is something wrong on the out of Gospel’s theory. So, the son should be the Three at the same time. The Father Should be Three in One. The Same for the Holly Ghost. If you separate Them, They will be not the same Person. But, it is only philosophical.
To Ben Masada.
My friend Ben. I agree with you in all you have saying that Jesus did something bad. Not because he really did. It I am not sure. The Gospels were wrote not by him. It were not inspired by him but based on his teachings, so we both know that is many insertions that belong not to him. The problem is that, everything that you said until now does not compare to what the OT said God did to Job. I know, the book is only a parable and not a true history. The great thing that I read in the Book of Job is that, it says God talkes directly to Satan. These is the exactly conception that I have from God. Does not matter if is Satan, you have to talk to your enemies. But what they did to Job and the people around him is not so good.
To Unknown
I am sorry, I lost the thread in what someone asked to who Jesus gave the Key of Heaven. And it is the Great Revelation that the Knowledge Concerning God gave me. You always thought about the words Key of Heaven been a human instrument. Heaven have not key like that. The Saints in Presence of God have more things to do than just shut and open imaginairy doors. Now you know the automatic doors, you can understand the useless of that understanding.
Now I understand that Jesus gave me the Key when I was just a little kid, five year or so, when I cried the true tear of compassion before him in the cross. And I expended about 40 years more for to understand it.
The Key to Heaven is what I share with you now. Although the teachings from the Church had said that the Key is passed from pope to pope, in these line someone broke the covenant by his sins. Is not that I am a saint. I am nobody for the human eyes. But God Have Done for me Wonders. (Brother Ambrose SJ, and all of you, take a look at the 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. Maybe you will understand it better with that orientation, although, Paul did not know what he was talking about).
I will use a parable for explain what came to me. Imagine if Osama Bin Laden in a happen realize that what he did is very wrong to the Eyes of God. Then, if he converted to the Judaism, at the ancient times, he would go to the Temple and offer sacrifices and do whatsoever was needed to do for to be saved. I am sorry Ben, I don’t know what you need to do for get the Grace of God in our days in Judaism teachings. So, if you please, imagine he would do everything right. I think, if he do this, the Jews would say he will be saved.
In the case of Catholics, imagine if he repent, convert, be Baptized, ask for forgiveness, submit himself to all the Church’s requirements, and even, handle himself to the International Justice for be judged by man and God. If he confess and practice for the rest of his days on Earth, you should say that, he will be saved.
For the Knowledge Concerning God he would be not required to convert to any other religion. He must have to repent and do whatsoever he have to do as Muslim. He need also learn something about the others religions for not have more any prejudice against others without himself.
But the great requirement that he must fulfill is to try to remove the consequence of his sins. These is the real Key to Heaven. Is not say, blood of Jesus have the power and everything else is forgoten. If you really is a converted one, you need to reject your sins and the sins of your ancestors and try to remove out the consequences of it. You need sin not more also.
Look at the world we have now. Why it is so dangerous, so conflicting, so miserable? It is because we converted partially to the Ways of God. We said, no more to slavery, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of it. We say, no more poverty, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of it. We unanimous say, no more polution, still, we keep poluting the world. We Cry for justice, but we did not cleaned up the consequences of the past unjustices. If we do like that, is the same as we say, OK I accept what bad were done before, and we turn up to be part of it.
The goal in to remove the consequences of the sins and sin not more is to make a New World, the most possible like Heaven. I know, we will never to be equal Heaven. But the more we make more will understand the Nature of God. And so, the Grace of God will do what will be impossible to us.
I also know that, Osama Bin Laden will be not capable of to remove all the consequences of his sins. The same is true to George W. Bush. But, we as brothers and children of God, need to help them to archieve it. We also are incapable of do the same to the consequences of ourselves sins. But we are not alone. We need to get together for the sake of the Salvation of all. If we do not even try we are doomed. If we try, the Grace of God Will Be With us for Do What Is Impossible to us.
Although I said before that are more than 80% of wrong teachings in the Bible, now I can say to you, I accept 100% of the verses in the Bible, from the first to the last. I accept it as an exercise for to prepare myself for our Salvation but not as an inconditional Truth.
Now I have to go for a while. Look at the Forum, Christ Died Once For All and you will see more that we learn from the Knowledge Concerning God.
May the Understanding that Come From God Be Upon us.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
May God Teach us How To Better Share our knowledge.
.
To Ben Masada.
My friend Ben. I agree with you in all you have saying that Jesus did something bad. Not because he really did. It I am not sure. The Gospels were wrote not by him. It were not inspired by him but based on his teachings, so we both know that is many insertions that belong not to him. The problem is that, everything that you said until now does not compare to what the OT said God did to Job. I know, the book is only a parable and not a true history. The great thing that I read in the Book of Job is that, it says God talkes directly to Satan. These is the exactly conception that I have from God. Does not matter if is Satan, you have to talk to your enemies. But what they did to Job and the people around him is not so good.
QUOTE]
My dear friend, not only that the whole book of Job is a parable but also that Satan is not real. It’s a metaphorical
concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. God is absolutely
One and incorporeal at that. Therefore, there is no evil god to compete with the only One Creator of the Universe.
Ben:
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
“For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. But He answered them, ‘My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.’ For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.’” (John 5:16-23)You couldn’t mean that! You must rephrase your sentence as to ask “Who did the Apostles say Jesus was,” Because neither is any longer. Jesus and his Apostles are long gone.
But to answer your question who the Apostles said Jesus was, they never thought he was the Messiah, son of God or that he had resurrected. Jesus was a Rabbi and wise Teacher.
Ben:
“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.’” (John 8:58)
“‘If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.’ Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.’ Jesus said to him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? ‘Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.’” (John 14:7-11)
“'Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” (John 17:5)
“Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Jesus said to him, ‘Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.’” (John 20:28-29
Once when Jesus was praying alone, with only the disciples near him, he asked them, ‘Who do the crowds say that I am?’ 19They answered, ‘John the Baptist; but others, Elijah; and still others, that one of the ancient prophets has arisen.’ 20He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ Peter answered, ‘The Messiah of God.’ (Luke 9:18)
M
mnmom
Guest
Ben,
You are right that Satan is not god. But Satan is real. He is the Advesary and he is a fallen angel who disobeyed God and was cast out of heaven. Satan only has the power God allows him to have.
You are right that Satan is not god. But Satan is real. He is the Advesary and he is a fallen angel who disobeyed God and was cast out of heaven. Satan only has the power God allows him to have.
A
AmbroseSJ
Guest
Yes, Valmabar, you are correct to a certain point. But you do not understand the teaching of the Church about the Trinity. There are three “persons” in one God. This does not mean person like it does with humans, which can only be in one Human. The word persons was agreed upon by the Eastern and Western Church in the 4th age. It is a term of distinction, although the three persons are all of the same substance of the One God. That means that the Father is NOT the Son but the Father AND the Son are ONE GOD With the Holy Spirit, who is the Third Person. Each person IS NOT the other person, but ALL are ONE GOD. Jesus said I am IN the Father, and the Father is IN me. He who sees me, sees the Father. Jesus was explaining that He is ONE with the Father, BUT NOT that he IS the Father.
You should study the Athanasian Creed below:
M
mnmom
Guest
Ben,
Also did you check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics I believe they would be more knowledgeable than I or anyone else on this board. They have a forum you can join I believe to ask any question you may have. They do have strict rules but are very respectful to all. They are not in the business of converting Jews. They just state the Why’s of why they are Hebrew Catholics.
Also did you check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics I believe they would be more knowledgeable than I or anyone else on this board. They have a forum you can join I believe to ask any question you may have. They do have strict rules but are very respectful to all. They are not in the business of converting Jews. They just state the Why’s of why they are Hebrew Catholics.
N
NotWorthy
Guest
How can you say this and base it on something that occurred 300 years later? That’s a stretch, Ben, for a lot can happen in 300 years.
That is not being argued.
Deuteronomy 28 has numerous curses. I’m not referring to Judah, Ben.
But in regards to your previous point where Isaiah 52-53, the 4th suffering servant song, how does this refer to Israel. How are we healed by Israel’s stripes?
N
NotWorthy
Guest
“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God” were Peter’s words, were they not?But to answer your question who the Apostles said Jesus was, they never thought he was the Messiah, son of God or that he had resurrected. Jesus was a Rabbi and wise Teacher.
Ben:
C
cheeto1
Guest
O.k., now AmbroseSJ has explained the true faith, Christine hasto answer your question who the Apostles said Jesus was, they never thought he was the Messiah, son of God or that he had resurrected. Jesus was a Rabbi and wise Teacher.
Ben:
given bible proofs, it is your turn to give the reasons you believe
this way. What is there in the Bible that makes you believe
the rest of the Bible is not true? Or is there some other written
source that you believe in more than the Bible? Has God revealed something to you in prayer privately, or to another
person whom you believe?
How do you decide which parts of the Bible to believe or not?
If you are not sure, then that’s fine. Just say you want to
think about it and I will be safisfied.
C
Cecil_P
Guest
No one taught me that. That is false teaching anyway.
Discrimination has been demonized as a horrible sign of bigotry and prejudice, and in some cases that’s true.
But discrimination is also very good and judicious if used wisely. One must learn to discriminate the good from the bad. You have been taught that such knowledge is worthless; that you should accept all, whether good or bad. That is the fullness of relativism.
Catholics are taught that they must always discriminate the good from the bad, both in people, actions, and teachings. That does not conflict with loving our enemies as ourselves though. We must still forgive and pray for their salvation. But in some cases we are warned to stay away from them, for the sake of our own salvation.
C
Cecil_P
Guest
I did say “negative discrimination”, but also thought that the context of the thread would have been sufficient for understanding what I meant, as much as context is necessary for the understanding of “jesuitical” (see OED).
The semantical aspect of the opening phrase apart, I am still no clearer regarding the apparent lack of charity on Jesus’ part in this passage. My own faith is sufficient to enable my complete trust in Jesus - if there is any ambiguity here I would prefer to put the blame on the biblical translation. But that raises the question concerning our trust in Scripture’s teachings. The standard answer might be that we should rely on the Church’s teaching and it’s tradition, which seems to point us back to the time when we Catholics were accused (falsely?) of not reading the Bible. I have no recollection of emphasis on Bible reading from my early childhood, even though I was educated from Sub A by the Holy Cross Sisters (starting in 1941!) and subsequently by the Christian Brothers.
I have difficulty in understanding why God would give us these writings, which the Church states are divinely inspired and therefore without error, and then not make it possible for the simplest of us to interpret them.
On reading what I have written I realize that I am not focussing on the subject of the thread - too many side issues. Sorry!
A
AmbroseSJ
Guest
Cecil P:
In fact God in the Person of His Divine Son, has left us the Church as our teacher. It was the Teachers of the Church that gave us the Scriptures (or Apostles and Evangelists as they are also known.) To assume that the Scriptures should be understandable to the simplest minds has never been Church teaching. In fact St. Peter himself in 2 Peter 3 says:
St John Chrysostom, urged Christians to read the Bible, but only that they would glean what they might, as well as becoming familiar with them in preparation for Sunday liturgies, but always leaving the interpretation of hard places to the Church.
This is in direct opposition to the Protestant error that holds all men should read Holy Scripture, as if it were understandable to the lowest intelligence. Indeed some of the greatest scholars and Saints have labored exceedingly over certain passages. Ironically, the reformers themselves qualified their error by saying good Protestant ministers would be necessary to explain the more difficult places.
You have a valid complaint, especially in light of the overwhelming Protestant teachings of Sola Scriptura. The idea that Scripture was handed to us by God as our teacher is completely false and Protestant in origin.
In fact God in the Person of His Divine Son, has left us the Church as our teacher. It was the Teachers of the Church that gave us the Scriptures (or Apostles and Evangelists as they are also known.) To assume that the Scriptures should be understandable to the simplest minds has never been Church teaching. In fact St. Peter himself in 2 Peter 3 says:
The Fathers of the Church often repeated this warning, especially St. Jerome in his letters to his Christian correspondents who often inquired of him the sense of certain Scripture passages.
St John Chrysostom, urged Christians to read the Bible, but only that they would glean what they might, as well as becoming familiar with them in preparation for Sunday liturgies, but always leaving the interpretation of hard places to the Church.
This is in direct opposition to the Protestant error that holds all men should read Holy Scripture, as if it were understandable to the lowest intelligence. Indeed some of the greatest scholars and Saints have labored exceedingly over certain passages. Ironically, the reformers themselves qualified their error by saying good Protestant ministers would be necessary to explain the more difficult places.
V
Valmabar
Guest
May God Purify our temple of our spirit.
To, particularly, brother Ambrose SJ
I will cote your cotation: He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother – existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.
Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.
He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity.
He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures.
For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man.
THANK YOU FOR THE ENRICHMENT OF MY KNOWLEDGE.
I am sorry brother Ambrose but I know you need allow yourself to be yourself. Let yourself be not a slave of the Chusch’s teachings at least for some moments. Is not that the Counsel Vatican II allowed us to do?
In my point of view the testimony above show not three persons of the same God. Is shows four. Why the women is always forgoten? Why the mother of God is not God witHim? Following the Church’s teachings we are wrong in to think Trinity, we need to think Tetrunite. Please, don’t take it as literal.
Brother Ambrose, we have to get back to the early years of our Era. In there, I know you know it, had so much competition. As much as today, and everybody wanted a place among the creatures of God but their egos ways put them in the first line and the others behind them. Them I say to you, I wanna be the last one.
The Messianics had to compete with the Saducees, the Doctors of the Law, the Pharisees, the Zelothes, the Herodians, the Essenes, the Samaritans, the followers of John the Baptist and many, many more. It inside the Judaism. They also had to compete with the followers of Dionisius, the followers of Zaratrusta and an immense number of ways inside Paganism. For that, in their understanding, they had to be always more than the others but, sometimes, they just got it wrongly. What they wrote is contaminated with their egoes, and not purified by the Ego of God.
In my understanding it have to do with the definition of the word PERFECT. Allow me use the Webster’s II again. It says, “Lacking in no essential: complete.” I would say in my own conception nothing can be better.
For you understand better. The title of these forum is, Something Bad That Jesus Did?. Ben Masada and me already pointed out something bad that Jesus did, at least, something bad that the authors of the Gospel’s said he did. All of them said that, Jesus recognized that, he didn’t know what the Father Knew. It not one of us can deny.
So, what we have here? A not perfect man, and a not perfect god that the theory of Triunite says, He is God. And it goes on. It said that had to die, be resuscitated, ascent to Heaven for to be perfected, and though, to be United as God.
It remember me something. It is exactly what the ancient Egiptians believed about their Pharaohs. Not exactly but equal in essence. And I thought the believe of those ancestors of mine were just a mythology.
I don’t say you and our beloved Church are entirely wrong. The Knowledge Concerning God teaches something like that. We say, in an Effective Presence of God, He Shares Everything with them that are WitHim. Although in His Presence we are Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniconscient etc, it does not allowed us to be God Himself. This is to be in Heaven and occur to anyone who got in There.
You would say that, if it is true though, in Presence of God we would use His Power to do whatever pleases us. Than I say to you, Because God know the consequences os our acts and Himself Acts, He Does Permit only Acts that have good consequences at His Effective Presence. Is not that God have not power for to do something wrong, but, because He Is Saint, He Limited Himself Acts.
I am sorry because I contradict your beliefs and may cause some pain on you by that. But I know, sometimes the medic have to put broken bones together for the sake of the patient.
To Ben Masada.
Ben, I agree with you about the Book of Job. The problem is that, the book shows wrongly the Personality of God. Had to have a warning about the wrong teachings in there for the Children of God know the Truth.
May God Allow us to receive the Good News with happiness.
To, particularly, brother Ambrose SJ
I will cote your cotation: He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother – existing fully as God, and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.
Although he is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.
He is united because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform deity into humanity.
He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing his natures.
For as the rational soul and body are one person, so the one Christ is God and man.
THANK YOU FOR THE ENRICHMENT OF MY KNOWLEDGE.
I am sorry brother Ambrose but I know you need allow yourself to be yourself. Let yourself be not a slave of the Chusch’s teachings at least for some moments. Is not that the Counsel Vatican II allowed us to do?
In my point of view the testimony above show not three persons of the same God. Is shows four. Why the women is always forgoten? Why the mother of God is not God witHim? Following the Church’s teachings we are wrong in to think Trinity, we need to think Tetrunite. Please, don’t take it as literal.
Brother Ambrose, we have to get back to the early years of our Era. In there, I know you know it, had so much competition. As much as today, and everybody wanted a place among the creatures of God but their egos ways put them in the first line and the others behind them. Them I say to you, I wanna be the last one.
The Messianics had to compete with the Saducees, the Doctors of the Law, the Pharisees, the Zelothes, the Herodians, the Essenes, the Samaritans, the followers of John the Baptist and many, many more. It inside the Judaism. They also had to compete with the followers of Dionisius, the followers of Zaratrusta and an immense number of ways inside Paganism. For that, in their understanding, they had to be always more than the others but, sometimes, they just got it wrongly. What they wrote is contaminated with their egoes, and not purified by the Ego of God.
In my understanding it have to do with the definition of the word PERFECT. Allow me use the Webster’s II again. It says, “Lacking in no essential: complete.” I would say in my own conception nothing can be better.
For you understand better. The title of these forum is, Something Bad That Jesus Did?. Ben Masada and me already pointed out something bad that Jesus did, at least, something bad that the authors of the Gospel’s said he did. All of them said that, Jesus recognized that, he didn’t know what the Father Knew. It not one of us can deny.
So, what we have here? A not perfect man, and a not perfect god that the theory of Triunite says, He is God. And it goes on. It said that had to die, be resuscitated, ascent to Heaven for to be perfected, and though, to be United as God.
It remember me something. It is exactly what the ancient Egiptians believed about their Pharaohs. Not exactly but equal in essence. And I thought the believe of those ancestors of mine were just a mythology.
I don’t say you and our beloved Church are entirely wrong. The Knowledge Concerning God teaches something like that. We say, in an Effective Presence of God, He Shares Everything with them that are WitHim. Although in His Presence we are Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniconscient etc, it does not allowed us to be God Himself. This is to be in Heaven and occur to anyone who got in There.
You would say that, if it is true though, in Presence of God we would use His Power to do whatever pleases us. Than I say to you, Because God know the consequences os our acts and Himself Acts, He Does Permit only Acts that have good consequences at His Effective Presence. Is not that God have not power for to do something wrong, but, because He Is Saint, He Limited Himself Acts.
I am sorry because I contradict your beliefs and may cause some pain on you by that. But I know, sometimes the medic have to put broken bones together for the sake of the patient.
To Ben Masada.
Ben, I agree with you about the Book of Job. The problem is that, the book shows wrongly the Personality of God. Had to have a warning about the wrong teachings in there for the Children of God know the Truth.
May God Allow us to receive the Good News with happiness.
A
AmbroseSJ
Guest
No Valmabar, you cause me no pain. I can follow your logic to a certain point, based on things you say. Maybe the Trinity is too difficult, indeed it is a Sacred Mystery. But if we can not agree that Jesus is God, then you are just speaking in terms of modern Judaism. 2nd Temple Judaism rejected Jesus as God too. Yes there were many followers FROM 2nd Temple Judaism, but as a religion, Judaism has never accepted Jesus as God.
You are not a bad person because you don’t agree with me. God loves you and me as long as we seek to do His will, and aim for the Truth, with His help. Maybe you will never believe Jesus is God, but as long as you are sure, in your heart, that you are doing what you believe to be truthful, you will be with God too someday.
I can follow your logic to a certain point, based on things you say. Maybe the Trinity is too difficult, indeed it is a Sacred Mystery. But if we can not agree that Jesus is God, then you are just speaking in terms of modern Judaism. 2nd Temple Judaism rejected Jesus as God too. Yes there were many followers FROM 2nd Temple Judaism, but as a religion, Judaism has never accepted Jesus as God.You are not a bad person because you don’t agree with me. God loves you and me as long as we seek to do His will, and aim for the Truth, with His help. Maybe you will never believe Jesus is God, but as long as you are sure, in your heart, that you are doing what you believe to be truthful, you will be with God too someday.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Great! Ambrose explained the truth and Christine gave the Bible proofs. Now, according to what or whom? Did you expect that Ambrose and Christine would admit that the Truth is with Judaiam, even if it was the Faith of Jesus? I didn’t think so. Therefore, they didn’t say or do anything.
What do you mean by Bible in your first question above? We Jews recognize only one Bible; the Tanach, or Hebrew Scriptures. Myself in particular, dare to confess that I accept and believe 20 percent of the NT. That’s the best way to miniize the contradictions. There is nothing else I believe more than the Tanach, but not as a blindfolded religious one.
Reason is the word. And Reason comes only by study and research.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Reading all the above, I felt as if I was reading something absolutely alien to Judaism. Even if I read from the NT
to the NT, crowded with contradictions. Even Jesus is not the real one, but someone completely strange to anything Jewish. Christianity is indeed a strange combination of Hellenistic Mythology with the audacity to claim connections with Judaism. I am sorry if my impressions are still on this phase. I don’t think you guys have even 20 percent of the truth.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
No need to say that they are not in the business of converting Jews. I am in the business of being converted by someone who has something to say, which makes sense. That’s the big problem: I don’t find any.
Ben:
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Jesus turned Judaism upsidedown! He was quite radical in his thinking. He did come to bring salvation, but not everyone, especially the traditional priests, were very receptive to him He came to abolish the old hypocritical laws and displays. He challenged their authority. Naturally, they did not want to hear what he said. They were deaf and blind to his words, as Isaiah said. He did fulfill a lot of what the prophets told people. I won’t go into all of them. Just because Jesus was amazing and strange, doesn’t mean he wasn’t true!Reading all the above, I felt as if I was reading something absolutely alien to Judaism. Even if I read from the NT
to the NT, crowded with contradictions. Even Jesus is not the real one, but someone completely strange to anything Jewish. Christianity is indeed a strange combination of Hellenistic Mythology with the audacity to claim connections with Judaism. I am sorry if my impressions are still on this phase. I don’t think you guys have even 20 percent of the truth.
Ben:
- Status