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tobinatorstark
Guest
STOP YOUR BLASPHEMY
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zach_dunn
Guest
How does that make sense?? I don’t understand.
Pax,
Zach
P.S. If you’re Christian, you’re swimming in very dangerous water.
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NotWorthy
Guest
I don’t know. Evidently worshiping idols is far worse. Turning your back and rejecting God for pagan gods is worse. Trying to turn God’s Chosen People, Israel, against God is worse.
I don’t spend too much time judging God’s actions, though. It makes my head hurt.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Good things those “some” don’t sit in judgment.
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Valmabar
Guest
And also He is not God because who learn something is not Omniscient.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Val, can you define “Catholic”? Cause I’m not sure you agree with what the Catholic Church teaches.
Jesus’ Divine Nature is surely Omniscient. His humanity is what it is. Jesus has the ability to learn, to grow up, to do everything humans do, but sin.
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Valmabar
Guest
May God Put His Wisdom on us all.
Althoug some of the opinions of Ben Masada could hurt the feelings of others, I feel confident in the opportunity of talk to someone that differ of myself opinion because it help me grow on my beliefs. I think that, the best way for have opinion about something is to hear the opinion from the opposite side.
In the thread #74 he was trying to give us a lesson remembering that, in John 4:22 is written that, “Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.”
As I believe, if you fish some verses from the Bible and put it in order that you want, is possible to justify whatsoever you think or did. He had to remember that, is also written, in Mathew 21:43, “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing fort the fruits thereof.”
As Ben believe, the Gospel of John is a later version, as I know it is so, written by a Gentile named after John Evangelist. So the Gospel would be less credible. Then Matthew’s witness could be much more believable.
For your consolation Ben, I have been studying it quiet some time. I was writing a book about our religions and discover that, many of the says in the OT and NT appear to mention the nation which I came from. Was the same sufferring, the same hopeness, the same need etc. And then came to me the same temptation for to nominate my nation as it was told by Jesus.
At the time I was making the same error of all the believers in that, Prophecy have something to do with foretelling the future. Later I realized that it is a false impression. But I was considering to do it thinking that, It would be good for my nation because my people was really in time of need. I thought, If in some way in the future my book become cannonized by any religion, maybe my people profit from it and solve some of our problems. So I took a better look at the Scriptures and saw that, what I was thinking is a mere wishful thinking but not a truthful one.
It is like that because I used my mind in search for that nation and found it. And that nation had to fulfill some criteria for to fit in the Willing of God. One hint of it you find in Mark 3:35, “For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.”
One more we find on Luke 6:27/28, “But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitelly use you.”
Here I would remember what is God’s Will. At our days shall the Americans love Osama Bin Laden and Bless the Muslins that curse them; shall the Jew be in love with the Palestinians and Bless the Iranians; shall some Catholics love the Protestants and Bless the Evangelicals, and vice-versa to all. If we make it happenning shall be possible what most of us say, Is not. I mean, the Palestinians and Israelis make they way to the Door of Heaven and will be not more Israel and be not more Palestine. On its place will be Abrahamya, where the children of Abraham will dwell together. Something alike will be happen on all over the world.
The last hint is in Matthew 5:9, “Bless are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.”
Before anyone say that, We have the primacy because we are from these or that denomination, take that which is in Luke 9: 49/50, “And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”
So, the lesson it brought to me is that, does not matter if you are Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Evangelic, Orthodox or whatsoever. What matter is to do the God’s Will. The nation that Jesus told about is not a nation confined in borders or kind of faith. The people of these nation are the Children of God and are called peacemakers.
May God Make Peacemakers of us all.
Althoug some of the opinions of Ben Masada could hurt the feelings of others, I feel confident in the opportunity of talk to someone that differ of myself opinion because it help me grow on my beliefs. I think that, the best way for have opinion about something is to hear the opinion from the opposite side.
In the thread #74 he was trying to give us a lesson remembering that, in John 4:22 is written that, “Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.”
As I believe, if you fish some verses from the Bible and put it in order that you want, is possible to justify whatsoever you think or did. He had to remember that, is also written, in Mathew 21:43, “Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing fort the fruits thereof.”
Code:
We may don't know what nation Jesus was talking about but the you in that verse was mentioning and makind excluded only one nation which was Israel, represented by the Jews.For your consolation Ben, I have been studying it quiet some time. I was writing a book about our religions and discover that, many of the says in the OT and NT appear to mention the nation which I came from. Was the same sufferring, the same hopeness, the same need etc. And then came to me the same temptation for to nominate my nation as it was told by Jesus.
At the time I was making the same error of all the believers in that, Prophecy have something to do with foretelling the future. Later I realized that it is a false impression. But I was considering to do it thinking that, It would be good for my nation because my people was really in time of need. I thought, If in some way in the future my book become cannonized by any religion, maybe my people profit from it and solve some of our problems. So I took a better look at the Scriptures and saw that, what I was thinking is a mere wishful thinking but not a truthful one.
It is like that because I used my mind in search for that nation and found it. And that nation had to fulfill some criteria for to fit in the Willing of God. One hint of it you find in Mark 3:35, “For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.”
One more we find on Luke 6:27/28, “But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitelly use you.”
Here I would remember what is God’s Will. At our days shall the Americans love Osama Bin Laden and Bless the Muslins that curse them; shall the Jew be in love with the Palestinians and Bless the Iranians; shall some Catholics love the Protestants and Bless the Evangelicals, and vice-versa to all. If we make it happenning shall be possible what most of us say, Is not. I mean, the Palestinians and Israelis make they way to the Door of Heaven and will be not more Israel and be not more Palestine. On its place will be Abrahamya, where the children of Abraham will dwell together. Something alike will be happen on all over the world.
The last hint is in Matthew 5:9, “Bless are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.”
Before anyone say that, We have the primacy because we are from these or that denomination, take that which is in Luke 9: 49/50, “And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”
So, the lesson it brought to me is that, does not matter if you are Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Evangelic, Orthodox or whatsoever. What matter is to do the God’s Will. The nation that Jesus told about is not a nation confined in borders or kind of faith. The people of these nation are the Children of God and are called peacemakers.
May God Make Peacemakers of us all.
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NotWorthy
Guest
You’ve stated this before, even indicating that the Vatican has claimed someone other than the Apostle John wrote the Gospel. Where are you getting this from?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Yes, may God make peacemakers of us all. Amen!!!
But, what did Jesus mean when He said, “No one can come to the Father except through me”? It doesn’t matter if you don’t follow the truth? What about love? You can make peace without loving one another?
I’m a little confused.
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Yes, it can. And I wish it was. None more than myself would like that the whole episode was metaphorical. You know, just a parable, as it’s well-known that parable was a very much used method by Jesus. To take that case with that mother literally, only harms Jesus’ credibility.
Now, with regards to the overturn of the tables and the finacial damage caused to the money changers by Jesus, the only thing deeper than the literal was in the mind of the gospel writer, who had a mind only to enhance Jesus’ divinity. But then again, it could have been an interpolation because Jesus would not break
the Golden Rule that blatantly.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Ben Masada;4802061:
All right. Try to follow my thought. When Paul was arrested in the Temple, according to Acts 21:27-34, Paul had some going from place to place until the High Priest Ananias decided to take him to trial presided by Felix, the Roman Governor. That’s in Acts 24:1-9. The prosecutor, a Lawyer called Tertulus, without a more adequate information, linked Paul to the Sect of the Nazarenes as a ringleader. That’s in verse 5. Now, use your commonsense and try to understand that there was only
one sect of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem. A Jewish sect which had been organized in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. That’s the Sect Paul tried to join three years after the Road to Damascus and was rejected, because of not only his past of persecutions of the Nazarenes but also because of his strange doctrines about Jesus. The Apostles in Jerusalem, with James, the brother of Jesus, at the head of the Sect, realized immediately that the Jesus preached by Paul was not their Jesus of Nazareth. I don’t expect you to understand this all of a sudden. That’s too much for
someone who has been accustomed to believe by faith.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Why do you say these things? Are you looking for weak-minded individuals that might give credence to your dreadful and impious declamations that you might lead them into your fringe brand of Judaism? QUOTE]
No, I am not looking for weak-minded individuals
who might give credence to the truth. I can’t learn much from them. My first priority is to learn. Therefore, I am looking for strong minded individuals like yourself, who once being enlightened with the truth, will hold unto it to produce the rightful food that feeds. These are the ones who once in possession of the truth will promote the faith of Jesus, which was Judaism.
Ben:
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Cecil_P
Guest
Today we’re taught that negative discrimination in any form is undesirable. How are Jesus’ actions to be viewed in this light? Excuses citing the lesson to be learnt from His subsequent response don’t seem satisfactory. Does the end justify the means in this case? Accepting that Jesus had to start somewhere with His mission, why is it accepted without question that the Jews should have been preferentially treated? After all, the Syro-Phoenician woman in Mark seems to have had more faith than most of the Jews at that time! She came to Jesus.!It’s interesting that you of all people would find that to be the “bad” thing that Jesus did!
Jesus as the Messiah, did come specifically to the JEWS! While He was in his public ministry he even instructed his disciples to avoid the Samaritan towns. Ultimately, of course, His Apostles were appointed the task of taking the Gospel to the Gentiles. The Gentiles were always within God’s plan, but not generally in Jesus’ ministry. There were exceptions of course, as you have pointed out. But there was no back pedaling or spin in his remark about her strong Faith as you seem to imply.
But you have rather proved the point when Jesus at another time said in Matt 11:16 :
Basically you’re complaining that Jesus Christ was not really Christian enough for you!
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NotWorthy
Guest
Hmmmm, it seems our Jewish brothers were the ones breaking the golden rule. The court of Annias was a money-making scheme that was a gold-mine for our good high-priest’s father in law.
Now, with regards to the overturn of the tables and the finacial damage caused to the money changers by Jesus, the only thing deeper than the literal was in the mind of the gospel writer, who had a mind only to enhance Jesus’ divinity. But then again, it could have been an interpolation because Jesus would not break
the Golden Rule that blatantly.
Ben:
And the “lights to the World” weren’t very hospitable either. The sign that brought one out of the Court of the Gentiles into the next innermost sanctum had a sign that promised that the death of any gentiles entering would be their own faults.
Yeah, Jesus passed Judgment over the Temple and what it had become. It began with the money changers. It continued with the fig tree. And it ended with the Romans.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Ben, this has been the crux of the whole issue. You’ve developed your own re-write of the entire New Testament. If something doesn’t agree with your preconceived ideas, then its false or some other invention. Don’t worry, mankind has done that for generations. Its nothing new.
All right. Try to follow my thought. …yada, yada, yada
Ben:
But it is yet, still wrong, my brother.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Valmabar, you are a little difficult to understand because of your style of English, but I can detect wisdom when I hear it!
Peace be to you!
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Ben_Masada
Guest
Do you do any different from me? Take a look at this: Forty days after Jesus was born Luke took Mary and Jesus and returned to Nazareth. That’s in Luke 2:39. Now, read Matthew 2:13 and try to re-write the gospels to explain to me why the Jesus of Luke was in Nazareth since he was 40 days old and the Jesus of Matthew was in Egypt waiting for Herod to die. No, it’s not a joke; it’s sad.
Ben:
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Ben_Masada
Guest
On the contrary. It ended with Jesus and not with the Romans. How could such a clash end any differently?
Ben:
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Cecil P:
Discrimination has been demonized as a horrible sign of bigotry and prejudice, and in some cases that’s true.
But discrimination is also very good and judicious if used wisely. One must learn to discriminate the good from the bad. You have been taught that such knowledge is worthless; that you should accept all, whether good or bad. That is the fullness of relativism.
Catholics are taught that they must always discriminate the good from the bad, both in people, actions, and teachings. That does not conflict with loving our enemies as ourselves though. We must still forgive and pray for their salvation. But in some cases we are warned to stay away from them, for the sake of our own salvation.
No one taught me that. That is false teaching anyway.
Discrimination has been demonized as a horrible sign of bigotry and prejudice, and in some cases that’s true.
But discrimination is also very good and judicious if used wisely. One must learn to discriminate the good from the bad. You have been taught that such knowledge is worthless; that you should accept all, whether good or bad. That is the fullness of relativism.
Catholics are taught that they must always discriminate the good from the bad, both in people, actions, and teachings. That does not conflict with loving our enemies as ourselves though. We must still forgive and pray for their salvation. But in some cases we are warned to stay away from them, for the sake of our own salvation.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Just a quick note Ben: Do NOT read the New Testament like historical narratives. It was not written to be such, so it is a bad mistake to do so. There is no actual conflict in the Gospels. Search Gospel Harmonies and you will find explanations galore.
Do you do any different from me? Take a look at this: Forty days after Jesus was born Luke took Mary and Jesus and returned to Nazareth. That’s in Luke 2:39. Now, read Matthew 2:13 and try to re-write the gospels to explain to me why the Jesus of Luke was in Nazareth since he was 40 days old and the Jesus of Matthew was in Egypt waiting for Herod to die. No, it’s not a joke; it’s sad.
Ben:
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