Something I liked about Mormonism

[Catholic20064]

I liked the fact that Mormon wards were relatively small – usually about 400 people. Large Catholic parishes like mine (10,000 people) are socially difficult to navigate. Even the smallest parishes in our area have between 2,000-3,000 members. I felt a greater sense of community in the smaller Mormon wards than I do in the Catholic parishes I have attended. Perhaps if I lived in a small town I would get the same type of community within the Catholic parish that I found in Mormonism.

This is one area where the falling number of Catholic priests is actually creating a real problem. I think it inevitable that married lay people will eventually have to be called to become unsalaried priests. If it doesn’t happen Catholics in America will continue to drift away from the church just as they have done in the ridiculously large parishes in Latin America. In some cases small really is better. The Bible churches often have small congregations as well. At the very least they exist so that people can choose them if they want. I recently read the Amish try to keep their communities to 30-40 families. Last Sunday night I was passing through an Amish area where the people were all gathering at around 5 p.m. for either a meeting or a Sunday evening potluck. Seemed like a better arrangement than parishes of 2000 families.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Or Catholics could get back to having large families (like the Mormons & Amish still do) and encouraging vocations to the priesthood among their children.

Also there is nothing to stop you from forming neighbourhood Catholic social clubs if you want smaller groups. You don’t need a priest or a church for that.

I understand your desire for a close knit tight community, I share it, but it is not large parishes that stop that, it is that we don’t love each other enough in the most part to want to associate with each other and so aren’t motivated to found catholic associations or create Catholic neighbourhoods by moving to live near each other.

The transient nature of a society where people are constantly relocating to get work etc is also a big barrier.

The key to community is to live close to one another.

 

[True_Believer_1]

Yes, smaller parishes are better. However, that does not give any Catholic the right, nor a good reason to drift away from the One True Church! The lack of Priests and vocations to the priesthood is a call to other Catholic to step up and take a larger role in the Parish. Any desire to leave the Church is nothing more than pure temptation from the dark one.

We make our parishes what they are, if we allow them to be cold and uninviting then that is the fault of the parishiners, not the lack of priests. Yes priests are there to be our spiritual leaders, but there is much that each of us can to as individuals to make our churches come alive.

And no, I do not think that there will come a time when married people will have to take over the priesthood. Why, because that is not the way that Christ set this whole deal up. And we have his word that His Church will survive. So, that being the case, there will always be priests, and there will always be the Catholic Church.

May God Bless You Always.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!

 

[Catholic20064]

And no, I do not think that there will come a time when married people will have to take over the priesthood. Why, because that is not the way that Christ set this whole deal up. And we have his word that His Church will survive. So, that being the case, there will always be priests, and there will always be the Catholic Church.

May God Bless You Always.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!

As I recall the Pope that Jesus called while He was on earth was married.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

As I recall the Pope that Jesus called while He was on earth was married.

This kind of thing is the reason close knit communities do not exist, before they can Catholics need to be united in faith, otherwise when we get together we just argue, that means you and others like you need to accept what the Chruch teaches, all of it, otherwise true communion is not possible.

 

[Catholic20064]

This kind of thing is the reason close knit communities do not exist, before they can Catholics need to be united in faith, otherwise when we get together we just argue, that means you and others like you need to accept what the Chruch teaches, all of it, otherwise true communion is not possible.

I don’t remember the Catholic Church ever stating that married priests was a matter of doctrine. It seems to me there are a few married priests in the Catholic Church right now. I don’t see anything happening out there that is going to save the Catholic Church from an extreme priest shortage within 20 years if it continues to require unmarried priests. I look at the age of priests in my diocese and the largest majority of them will be retired within 20 years with a relatively small number of replacements. Parishes are being closed every year in my diocese and the stated reason is the shortage of priests to man them.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

I don’t remember the Catholic Church ever stating that married priests was a matter of doctrine. It seems to me there are a few married priests in the Catholic Church right now. I don’t see anything happening out there that is going to save the Catholic Church from an extreme priest shortage within 20 years if it continues to require unmarried priests. I look at the age of priests in my diocese and the largest majority of them will be retired within 20 years with a relatively small number of replacements. Parishes are being closed every year in my diocese and the stated reason is the shortage of priests to man them.

Then I suggest you stop walking around with your eyes closed because the seminaries I know about are packed. We don’t need to throw out a ancient tradition of the Church we need a 100% return to fidelity to the Church by a arrogant laity which thinks it is free to disagree with God about anything they don’t like.

 

[Tmaque]

I’m hearing that diocese with strong orthodox bishops are having no trouble getting men into seminaries. It’s the weak ones who are suffering with the priest shortage. The problem is an unwillingness to challenge people to actually live as the Catechism teaches.

 

[Catholic20064]

Then I suggest you stop walking around with your eyes closed because the seminaries I know about are packed. We don’t need to throw out a ancient tradition of the Church we need a 100% return to fidelity to the Church by a arrogant laity which thinks it is free to disagree with God about anything they don’t like.

I wonder what percentage of seminarians actually become priests. Any idea?

I strongly believe that devout married men whose children are grown would be able to serve as wonderful priests. With some training a married man over the age of 50 who has shown a lifetime of devotion to the Catholic Church could serve the church well in that capacity. There is no reason to see the continued decline in the number of parishes when such men are available to serve. There are at least 20 men in my parish who could do so admirably.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

I wonder what percentage of seminarians actually become priests. Any idea?

I strongly believe that devout married men whose children are grown would be able to serve as wonderful priests. With some training a married man over the age of 50 who has shown a lifetime of devotion to the Catholic Church could serve the church well in that capacity. There is no reason to see the continued decline in the number of parishes when such men are available to serve. There are at least 20 men in my parish who could do so admirably.

Except that God does not want them.

 

[Catholic20064]

Except that God does not want them.

Is it God who does not want them or you who does not want them? What would you do if the Catholic Church decided to ordain married men? They already do that in special circumstances. And the Eastern Rite churches outside of the U.S. also accept married men into their priesthood. Pope John Paul II already said that married men might in the future become ordained priests just as they were in the early church. It is a custom in the West not to ordain married men, but the time could come when that custom would change.

 

[Catholic20064]

We have gotten a little off topic here, but I think it is a useful discussion. Are there advantages to small parishes over large parishes? Does the Mormon and Amish custom of small congregations have advantages? I always felt as a Mormon that I was able to get to know people better than I now am able to do in my large Catholic parish. Part of that may be because as a married man with a Mormon wife it is difficult to fit in, but I would guess there might be many people who simply fall through the cracks.

 

[twopekinguys]

I liked the fact that Mormon wards were relatively small – usually about 400 people. Large Catholic parishes like mine (10,000 people) are socially difficult to navigate. Even the smallest parishes in our area have between 2,000-3,000 members. I felt a greater sense of community in the smaller Mormon wards than I do in the Catholic parishes I have attended. Perhaps if I lived in a small town I would get the same type of community within the Catholic parish that I found in Mormonism.

You realize that it is up to you to become as socially interactive as you feel comfortable with right?

Our parish is one of those that falls in the 2000-3000 range. We have people who have been in the parish all of their life, and know no one. Then we have others that know almost everyone.

Something our pastor said has stuck with me for many years is: “If you think their should be a parish ministry for ________________. Then you are the one who should organize it, and lead it.”

If you feel the social aspect is lacking, then do something about it. Organize a pot luck, an ice cream social, coffee hour, etc.

This is one area where the falling number of Catholic priests is actually creating a real problem. I think it inevitable that married lay people will eventually have to be called to become unsalaried priests. If it doesn’t happen Catholics in America will continue to drift away from the church just as they have done in the ridiculously large parishes in Latin America. In some cases small really is better. The Bible churches often have small congregations as well. At the very least they exist so that people can choose them if they want. I recently read the Amish try to keep their communities to 30-40 families. Last Sunday night I was passing through an Amish area where the people were all gathering at around 5 p.m. for either a meeting or a Sunday evening potluck. Seemed like a better arrangement than parishes of 2000 families.

As other posters have stated, seminary numbers are up in our diocese. We have a very conservative, but very personable Bishop, and vocations directors, and we never seem to have a shortage of seminarians. In the last 15 years, we have had only 1 leave the seminary, and not be ordained. Pretty good record.

As far as “unsalaried priests”. That will never happen. We do have those men who are ordained to the permanent diaconate, and they are unpaid. They can basically do everything but hear confessions, (they can hear them, they just can’t provide absolution ), or confect the Eucharist. They can proclaim the gospel, preach a homily, marry, bury, and baptize.

The Bible churches that you refer to, are small because in most cases they have broken off from another church. That’s why there are so many different protestant churches out there. The Amish are different because they are more of a closed community.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Is it God who does not want them or you who does not want them? What would you do if the Catholic Church decided to ordain married men? They already do that in special circumstances. And the Eastern Rite churches outside of the U.S. also accept married men into their priesthood. Pope John Paul II already said that married men might in the future become ordained priests just as they were in the early church. It is a custom in the West not to ordain married men, but the time could come when that custom would change.

I want what God wants. If God wanted them the custom of His Church would not be what it is.

God is blessing those places that are obedient to the disciplines of His Church with many good priests, it is the places with Catholics who are disobedient and rebellious and try to impose ideas contrary to Catholic tradition that are dying. Which is in accordance with what Christ told us in the scriptures would happen.

 

[Chris-WA]

Is it God who does not want them or you who does not want them? What would you do if the Catholic Church decided to ordain married men? They already do that in special circumstances. And the Eastern Rite churches outside of the U.S. also accept married men into their priesthood. Pope John Paul II already said that married men might in the future become ordained priests just as they were in the early church. It is a custom in the West not to ordain married men, but the time could come when that custom would change.

Funny, I thought it was JPII that pretty much settled the debate over a married priesthood. He said no. I don’t know why we are still debating it. As to Catholic priests that are married, the only way this is allowed that I’m aware of is if a married man who was a priest in the Anglican church converts to Catholicism and is then allowed to be a Catholic priest.

My friend, here is the truth: Catholics get exactly the number and quality of priests they deserve. In a diocese where people are truly living out their Catholic faith, they have plenty of priests and seminarians. In a diocese full of Catholics who pick and choose what they like and ignore the rest, there is a shortage of priests. The good news is that the hippie generation that wreaked so much havoc on the Church in modern times is slowly but surely fading away and the new generation of seminarians are on fire for the Catholic faith in ***all ***of its truth. Add to that all the Protestant ministers who have converted to Catholicism in the last 20 years (and the zeal they bring for faith formation), and we are headed for a brighter future.

As far as parish size goes, that’s not likely to change. But within a parish there are many organizations you can become a part of if your looking for that same sense of community you had in the LDS church. The difference is that you have to make the effort yourself. It’s not going to be handed to you as in the case in Mormonism where you are told what congregation you will be a member of and what time you must go to church every Sunday.

 

[Chris-WA]

Here is what I like about Mormonism:

They take faith formation seriously, and they have a great program. Not just for kids, but for adults also. They have it almost every Sunday of the year (there is no summer “vacation” from faith formation), and everyone is expected to go. It’s in the culture that faith formation is important–something we Catholics have lost in recent times. I personally believe the number one greatest problem within the Catholic Church today is our inexcusable lack of quality faith formation, especially for adults. Most Catholics stop learning about the faith after they are confirmed as teenagers, even they even made it that far, and thereby become easy pickens’ for other religions.

 

[RebeccaJ]

We have gotten a little off topic here, but I think it is a useful discussion. Are there advantages to small parishes over large parishes? Does the Mormon and Amish custom of small congregations have advantages? I always felt as a Mormon that I was able to get to know people better than I now am able to do in my large Catholic parish. Part of that may be because as a married man with a Mormon wife it is difficult to fit in, but I would guess there might be many people who simply fall through the cracks.

In Mormonism it is the Bishop who is ensuring that everyone is involved and no one “falls through the cracks”. Visiting teachers and home teachers help to monitor this as well.

In Catholicism it is you that discerns which ministries God is calling you to. If you feel you are “falling through the cracks”, then perhaps it is God prompting you to get involved. Pray, pay attention to the ministries and groups of your parish, attend one or two regularly, and see where He leads you.

I don’t believe your mixed marriage is what is causing you to fall through the cracks. You can look for a ministry and/or group where you and your wife can go together.

For yourself, Knights of Columbus may offer what you are looking for.

 

[Catholic20064]

In Mormonism it is the Bishop who is ensuring that everyone is involved and no one “falls through the cracks”. Visiting teachers and home teachers help to monitor this as well.

In Catholicism it is you that discerns which ministries God is calling you to. If you feel you are “falling through the cracks”, then perhaps it is God prompting you to get involved. Pray, pay attention to the ministries and groups of your parish, attend one or two regularly, and see where He leads you.

I don’t believe your mixed marriage is what is causing you to fall through the cracks. You can look for a ministry and/or group where you and your wife can go together.

For yourself, Knights of Columbus may offer what you are looking for.

I have asked my wife to attend Catholic functions with me. It’s not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have asked my wife to attend Catholic functions with me. It’s not going to happen anytime soon.

Yeah, ditto for my husband. I go on my own. Sounds like you’ll need to do the same.

 

[SteveVH]

I liked the fact that Mormon wards were relatively small – usually about 400 people. Large Catholic parishes like mine (10,000 people) are socially difficult to navigate. Even the smallest parishes in our area have between 2,000-3,000 members. I felt a greater sense of community in the smaller Mormon wards than I do in the Catholic parishes I have attended. Perhaps if I lived in a small town I would get the same type of community within the Catholic parish that I found in Mormonism.

This is one area where the falling number of Catholic priests is actually creating a real problem. I think it inevitable that married lay people will eventually have to be called to become unsalaried priests. If it doesn’t happen Catholics in America will continue to drift away from the church just as they have done in the ridiculously large parishes in Latin America. In some cases small really is better. The Bible churches often have small congregations as well. At the very least they exist so that people can choose them if they want. I recently read the Amish try to keep their communities to 30-40 families. Last Sunday night I was passing through an Amish area where the people were all gathering at around 5 p.m. for either a meeting or a Sunday evening potluck. Seemed like a better arrangement than parishes of 2000 families.

I live in a small community. Our parish has around 400 families. We have four Masses per Sunday. My parish is my family and I know just about everyone. I feel blessed to be in a small parish but I know of some large parishes that also have close communities within the larger congregation. In fact they’re called “small communities”. My father has been meeting with his small community for over 20 years. They meet once a week for dinner, prayer and sharing. Its a great way to foster “community” within a large parish.